Game Analysis: SERIES DISCUSSION: ADSF | Rangers vs. Canadiens Pt. 2 (Series tied 1-1)

[NickyFotiu]

I think top to bottom, the Rangers are the better team. The only place they might have the advantage would be in goal, but Henrik has gone to another level and is erasing any doubts that he's still one of the best in the world.

The problem this team had was that they stopped going for it in the 3rd period. They let the Canadians dictate the pace of the game and it killed us. It's why Hank had to stop 40 bazillion shots at the end. The Rangers need to play their game for 60 minutes (more, obviously if there's overtime). Keep their defense on their heels, we can force turnovers.

And someone needs to put Gallagher on his mfn as$. That little runt is running all over the place and doing whatever he wants. Next time he's in front of the net, he needs to be hit, hit and hit again. Every time he goes to the net, he needs to feel pain.

Am I the only one who thinks Ott should be suspended for that hit on Zucc? Charging, Interference and what appeared to be a hit with the head as the primary target....

I think Ott is a piece of crap. He is hated by many around the league already and now he is showing why that is the case. That was definitely a hit were he went after Zooks head.

 

[NickyFotiu]

We have to stop turtling when we have a lead.... it's killed us for like 5 years now

You are right. We did it under Torts but I have no idea why AV does it as well.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I beat it to death but Vesey is seriously one of the worst passers in the NHL

Guy couldn't find open space with nobody on the ice.

Wasn't Vesey the guy that made that nice little dish to Nash on his goal?

 

[chosen]

So the idea behind the dump is to prevent an odd man rush off a turnover..sort of like a prevent defense in football. Yea I don't like it AV needs to gamble a bit more when things are stale as they are with Hayes and Step and change things up. 5 man back is probably a high percentage move but with the Habs offensive deficiencies it makes sense for us to out skate and out create them. Less creative teams want the play to be plodding and in front of the opposition goalie for scrum type goals.

The thing I loved about Parcels in playoff games he took calculated chances in big spots. AV needs to grow a pair.

Parcells has a total of zero rings without Bellichick on his staff.

 

[chosen]

That is interesting because for a lot of the last 2 months he rarely crossed the red line to play defense. Is it possible that the coaches pointed that out so he adjusted his game in the opposite direction?

That's my best guess as to what is going on with him.

 

[Leetch3]

Wasn't Vesey the guy that made that nice little dish to Nash on his goal?

yep.

 

[Captain Lindy]

17 seconds

I am having flashbacks of Drury's 7 seconds.

 

[Inferno]

This is embarrassing.

Also, those of you saying Hank was average, shame on you

Yeah...I'll say it a second time..that was the stupidest thing I've ever seen on this board...

Man that graph totally matches up with my eye test...he got booted in the balls and Henrik vastly outplayed price.

 

[chosen]

yep.

AV loves Vesey because he is defensively reliable. All coaches love that. His upside isn't Buch, but he rarely screws up. That's also why he loves Fast, who might be the most sound defensive forward I have seen since Jan Erixon.

 

[Irishguy42]

Not for nothing, but I don't think MTL gets above 40 SOG again in this series.

Just a hunch. Think last night was just a bit of an outlier in that dept.

 

[Boruto]

Not for nothing, but I don't think MTL gets above 40 SOG again in this series.

Just a hunch. Think last night was just a bit of an outlier in that dept.

The way we played in the third and with a lead certainly isn't an outlier. We're going to get our Pingus pounded over and over again until Vigneault stops drinking the safe is the way kool aid.

 

[ponzu4u]

Two games in a row we played the 3rd period the same way. Short 15-30 second shifts. Only 1-2 players past the redline. Get the puck deep and go for a change.

This is the KEY aspect of the AV turtle. He gets super conservative at the end of games, cuts shifts incredibly short, and kills any chance for the team to build successive momentum at the ends of games we're winning. Guys start a shift in our zone, have enough time to defend/get puck/leave zone w/o icing, and then they have to get off the ice. It leads to us just giving the puck to the Habs for another rush, so the next line just defends/tries to get the puck/leaves zone - puck to Habs. And it frickin spirals until the horn sounds.

This was Girardi's post game quote - "For the most part we were defending and, you know, you get tired and you have to keep chipping it in and you get the first line out there, so... it's tough to establish the forecheck when we're doing that."

The shifts are so short it's almost impossible to build offensive zone forecheck pressure with successive lines. You basically end up starting each shift defending against a rush. And from that point you've got 15-20 seconds of shift left.

There were several instances in the last ten minutes of the game last night where I believe AV actively pulled the third (trailing) forward off the ice away from supporting the rush. But instead of flying the fresh forward into the offensive zone, he sends him to kind of "wait" in the neutral zone, for the impending MON rush. Which I guess then gives a little more time for the two forechecking forwards to be able to change without MON getting a clean breakout right back into our zone? And effectively turning whatever rush could have developed into a DOA 2 on 3.

Honestly, it's not like the strategy doesn't logically make sense, it's just shockingly SAFE. I'd be curious what the Rangers record is after giving up a lead in the last 10mins of the game, particularly in the playoffs, because I'd imagine it's difficult for the players to switch that mentality from protect the lead, close out the game, save us Hank, to -- okay now find the energy to play offense again. But I'm ready and willing for the numbers to help me change my understanding..

 

[Raspewtin]

AV loves Vesey because he is defensively reliable. All coaches love that. His upside isn't Buch, but he rarely screws up. That's also why he loves Fast, who might be the most sound defensive forward I have seen since Jan Erixon.

Vesey sucks offensively and defensively. Him and Fast are nothing alike.

 

[cheech70]

Not for nothing, but I don't think MTL gets above 40 SOG again in this series.

We had this game then stopped playing to score....AV is gonna figure it out and change his strategy.

 

[The Gloaming]

58 shots on goal against in a 4 period game is pathetic no matter how you slice it.

 

[Inferno]

I don't even think it's high percentage honesty. The issue is, in order to prevent a theoretical odd man rush, we give the team ~20 minutes of infinite chances to enter our zone, get set up, and get good shots off. The chances of them scoring in that situation are a lot higher than the chances of them getting and then converting on an odd man rush against a dialed in Hank when we're actually trying to possess the puck and play in their end.

And we essentially guarantee that we have no chance to score again ourselves.

And we essentially guarantee that, should the other team score and tie, we're going to be playing slower and more reticent while competing for the GWG.

Becoming more conservative at the end with a lead is fine - but going all the way to dumping and changing and never even trying to drive play is a huge mistake.

Eh I don't mind playing smart...I hate the hyper short shifts..the complete lack of forecheck etc. The kings play very much a dump and chase style when protecting the lead...the difference is...they retrieve pucks and play that style the whole damn game...rangers are a horrific board team and a putrid forechecking team...we are all about the rushes and the tic tac toe plays. How is a team who sucks at playing style x going to suddenly be asked to play it the final 20 mins of a game.

U can very much protect a lead...just now when u r built and coached like the rangers. Go in...get pucks..cycle..play in their end..protect the center of the ice..

Oh and man to man defense...just a brilliant style when trying to turtle.

There's a reason why torts was so much better at turtling than av....it's because it's easier to turtle playing zone than man to man...but...I digress.

 

[Irishguy42]

Do we know if they're practicing after they get back to NY today? Judging from Borges' IG story, they've already left Montreal.

Not sure.

 

[chosen]

Vesey sucks offensively and defensively. Him and Fast are nothing alike.

Their styles are vastly different and I know you hate Vesey, but he clearly has the trust of the staff during big moments. He doesn't help that much, but he almost never inflicts damage towards his team.

 

[cheech70]

This is the KEY aspect of the AV turtle. He gets super conservative at the end of games, cuts shifts incredibly short, and kills any chance for the team to build successive momentum at the ends of games we're winning. Guys start a shift in our zone, have enough time to defend/get puck/leave zone w/o icing, and then they have to get off the ice. It leads to us just giving the puck to the Habs for another rush, so the next line just defends/tries to get the puck/leaves zone - puck to Habs. And it frickin spirals until the horn sounds.

This was Girardi's post game quote - "For the most part we were defending and, you know, you get tired and you have to keep chipping it in and you get the first line out there, so... it's tough to establish the forecheck when we're doing that."

The shifts are so short it's almost impossible to build offensive zone forecheck pressure with successive lines. You basically end up starting each shift defending against a rush. And from that point you've got 15-20 seconds of shift left.

There were several instances in the last ten minutes of the game last night where I believe AV actively pulled the third (trailing) forward off the ice away from supporting the rush. But instead of flying the fresh forward into the offensive zone, he sends him to kind of "wait" in the neutral zone, for the impending MON rush. Which I guess then gives a little more time for the two forechecking forwards to be able to change without MON getting a clean breakout right back into our zone? And effectively turning whatever rush could have developed into a DOA 2 on 3.

Honestly, it's not like the strategy doesn't logically make sense, it's just shockingly SAFE. I'd be curious what the Rangers record is after giving up a lead in the last 10mins of the game, particularly in the playoffs, because I'd imagine it's difficult for the players to switch that mentality from protect the lead, close out the game, save us Hank, to -- okay now find the energy to play offense again. But I'm ready and willing for the numbers to help me change my understanding..

 

[Raspewtin]

Their styles are vastly different and I know you hate Vesey, but he clearly has the trust of the staff during big moments. He doesn't help that much, but he almost never inflicts damage towards his team.

What does "inflicts damage" mean?

 

[chosen]

What does "inflicts damage" mean?

Have a negative impact.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

What does "inflicts damage" mean?

It means having a jersey with the name Holden or Staal on the back

 

[JohnC]

Can't remember who it was, but a few months ago a poster here said AV will never win a thing so long as he's obsessed with short shifts.

It's infuriating watching multiple players give up a chance to forecheck even a little to go for a change.

 

[bouds]

The short shift **** killed me last night. Could distinctly remember a 3-2 with about 8 minutes left in the 3rd where Skjei just gained the red and dumped it to make a change instead of trying to go further up the ice. These guys were on for 20-25 seconds max, how the **** do get anything done that way. That's bad defensive hockey.

 

[Ola]

Heartbreaking loss. 15 more seconds and we leave MTL up by 2. Now its tied.

I still like our chances, but its not going to be easy.