Game Analysis: SERIES DISCUSSION: ADSF | Rangers vs. Canadiens Pt. 2 (Series tied 1-1)

[chosen]

We get outshot more with Vesey on the ice versus Girardi; we get outscored more with Vesey on the ice versus Girardi. Call it what you want.

No, I never said that about Columbus. What I said about Columbus is that they were a very average team outside of their huge winning streak and won't contend for a Cup.

I was pretty sure it was you, but if not it was one of the other metrics guys I respect.

 

[Inferno]

The thing that pisses me off the most is that we've wasted a generational talent like Henrik....just pissed it away through horrible asset management.

 

[chosen]

What's a negative impact, to you?

To me it means doing something that directly leads to a major scoring chance against.

 

[chosen]

Montreal put up 50+ shots icing 3 non-NHL'ers in their bottom 6 and giving Philip ****ing Danault 1st line minutes.

Pittsburgh would put this team into a food processor.

Pittsburgh's personnel is far better than Montreal's, so that's not saying much. The beauty of Pittsburgh is the way they come up with players like Guentzel and Sheary. Would love to have either of those two.

 

[Raspewtin]

To me it means doing something that directly leads to a major scoring chance against.

Then Vesey has a large negative impact. It's just not noticeable because he's a safe player. It not being noticeable doesn't mean it doesn't happen. He doesn't try to make plays he doesn't have the skill or IQ for, but the "safer" plays he does make are just as harmful. It's why Girardi has flown under the radar for so long. He's not going to make that Yandle-esque pass up center ice that gets picked off.

But Vesey might be the worst passer on the team. He simply cannot find open players and when you have players like Nash and Zib on your line who like to carry the puck it really hurts them. Vesey's poor passing is likely why his underlying metrics are so bad. Sure he might block shots or be in position but when the puck comes to him it goes the other way just as quickly.

Pittsburgh's personnel is far better than Montreal's, so that's not saying much. The beauty of Pittsburgh is the way they come up with players like Guentzel and Sheary. Would love to have either of those two.

Sheary is incredible. So underrated because he plays with Crosby.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I just can't believe Staal and Holden were out there at the end of the 3rd. Holden the total idiot breaks his own stick slashing Plekanec and as a result can't block the pass. If he had a stick, that pass doesn't get thru. Wholly unavoidable and unacceptable. And he's right back out there. He was soooo bad.

Just ridiculous.

 

[chosen]

Enjoy it while it last for the next few games.

Isn't the whole point of being a fan to feel thrills from a game like that?

Damn straight I'm going to enjoy it however long it lasts.

 

[Megustaelhockey]

The thing that pisses me off the most is that we've wasted a generational talent like Henrik....just pissed it away through horrible asset management.

He can join more Rangers goalies on the list of best never to win the Cup.

I feel so bad for him. It's not a list anyone wants to be on.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

The thing that pisses me off the most is that we've wasted a generational talent like Henrik....just pissed it away through horrible asset management.

Yup. He is the Rangers' version of Patrick Ewing. Way to go MSG.

 

[chosen]

He can join more Rangers goalies on the list of best never to win the Cup.

I feel so bad for him. It's not a list anyone wants to be on.

Hank is easily the best Rangers goaltender I have ever seen and is in the wide open discussion of second best goaltender ever.

Lots of great players never win it and while I feel a little bit sorry for all of them, there are far too many people who are far more deserving of my feeling sorry for. All of these guys are living the dream all of us would love to experience. That ain't that bad.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

Smith and Skjei were dominating. DOMINATING. And for them to be riding pine in the final few minutes and then for Holden to be out there in the final minute is inexcusable. It's the dumbest thing I've ever seen in my entire life. It's mindboggling how stupid that is. How how how why why why what the ****ing ****

AV has it written in his mind that Staal-Holden is a good defensive pair. And he also has it written that when leading at the end you want your best "defensive-type" defense pairings on the ice far more than you want D-men who can move the puck and exit the zone.

He's wrong on both counts. But what are you going to do? He seems impervious to any argument countering his beliefs.

 

[JT Kreider]

AV has it written in his mind that Staal-Holden is a good defensive pair. And he also has it written that when leading at the end you want your best "defensive-type" defense pairings on the ice far more than you want D-men who can move the puck and exit the zone.

He's wrong on both counts. But what are you going to do? He seems impervious to any argument countering his beliefs.

He shouldn't be an NHL coach then. All day yesterday every single one of us on this board said Holden and Staal would cost us this game and that is exactly what happened. If us, mere fans, can see it, then how can't he?

Now I'm starting to question Gorton for trading for Holden to begin with it. And how couldn't he have stormed down to the locker room after that goal and question AV how he can make such a critically mindbogglingly stupid mistake? Some accountability goes a long way.

 

[THE BIG WHISTLE]

Is there a practice today? Curious to see what the lineup will be.

 

[Crease]

Consensus on the Playoffs board is NYR-MTL has been "by far" the best series. Obviously it is a different experience for fans of the two teams, but at the same time, try to enjoy it. Not everyone gets to see their favorite players in high stakes high intensity battles like this.

 

[Zil]

The thing that pisses me off the most is that we've wasted a generational talent like Henrik....just pissed it away through horrible asset management.

It's especially awful because some fans don't even appreciate him. Girardi and Staal basically owe him their careers. The same goes for AV. Hank's the undisputed greatest goalie in franchise history and he's possibly the greatest player period.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Then Vesey has a large negative impact. It's just not noticeable because he's a safe player. It not being noticeable doesn't mean it doesn't happen. He doesn't try to make plays he doesn't have the skill or IQ for, but the "safer" plays he does make are just as harmful. It's why Girardi has flown under the radar for so long. He's not going to make that Yandle-esque pass up center ice that gets picked off.

But Vesey might be the worst passer on the team. He simply cannot find open players and when you have players like Nash and Zib on your line who like to carry the puck it really hurts them. Vesey's poor passing is likely why his underlying metrics are so bad. Sure he might block shots or be in position but when the puck comes to him it goes the other way just as quickly.



Sheary is incredible. So underrated because he plays with Crosby.

That's because Yandle can actually hit that pass, and do it quite well.

 

[chosen]

We get outshot more with Vesey on the ice versus Girardi; we get outscored more with Vesey on the ice versus Girardi. Call it what you want.

No, I never said that about Columbus. What I said about Columbus is that they were a very average team outside of their huge winning streak and won't contend for a Cup.

Side question:

Shots are the marker used for analytics. Obviously all shots are not created equal and perhaps more importantly, all shooters are not created equally.

For example, a shot off the stick of Fast is not the same as the shot off a stick of Tarasenko. Is there anything in metrics to account for these things?

I have great respect for metrics in general even if I disagree with you guys sometimes and my two favorite courses in college were probability and statistics. I also paid my way through grad school by gambling, so I have a pretty good feel for mathematical values.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

The frustrating part for me is that if we actually iced the correct players and pairs, we'd destroy them because look at the trash they ice half the time.

They have Ott, Martinsen, Shaw, King all playing. Danault on the 1st line. We're going up against a coach that is putting Alex freaking Galchenyuk on the 4th line and our coach still can't outdo theirs.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

I just can't believe Staal and Holden were out there at the end of the 3rd. Holden the total idiot breaks his own stick slashing Plekanec and as a result can't block the pass. If he had a stick, that pass doesn't get thru. Wholly unavoidable and unacceptable. And he's right back out there. He was soooo bad.

Just ridiculous.

And also why didn't he do anything to tie Tommy Turtleneck up? Bear hug him, horse collar tackle him, do anything. Who cares if you get a penalty there's less than 20 seconds left in the game.

 

[Osminator]

Kreider, Miller, Hayes, Stepan are total no-show... crazy.

 

[Zil]

It's not that complicated. He has three horses on the blueline: McDonagh, Smith, and Skjei. One of them should be out at all times late in tight games.

Also, the team's struggling to get out of its zone, to bring the puck into the offensive zone, and to run an effective powerplay. Clendening specializes in all of those areas. Send Staal or Holden to the pressbox and ****ing free Clendo.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Side question:

Shots are the marker used for analytics. Obviously all shots are not created equal and perhaps more importantly, all shooters are not created equally.

For example, a shot off the stick of Fast is not the same as the shot off a stick of Tarasenko. Is there anything in metrics to account for these things?

I have great respect for metrics in general even if I disagree with you guys sometimes and my two favorite courses in college were probability and statistics. I also paid my way through grad school by gambling, so I have a pretty good feel for mathematical values.

There's one model for expected goals that takes into account shooting Talent, but no corsi doesn't take the talent of the players shot into account.

 

[DanielBrassard]

It's not that complicated. He has three horses on the blueline: McDonagh, Smith, and Skjei. One of them should be out at all times late in tight games.

Also, the team's struggling to get out of its zone, to bring the puck into the offensive zone, and to run an effective powerplay. Clendening specializes in all of those areas. Send Staal or Holden to the pressbox and ****ing free Clendo.

He will never do it bro. Clendo is the ****in 9th D on the depth chart. The coach hates him.

 

[THE BIG WHISTLE]

Clendening is stapled to the press and rightfully so. Ott would wreck him on the boards. Need Klein in for Holden. Bump up smith with staal and we should be good.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I'm really hoping our fans are super loud and make MSG the kind of home ice advantage we used to have for decades. I can not say for sure what changed but MSG has not been the same for years.