Game Analysis: SERIES DISCUSSION: ADSF | Rangers vs. Canadiens Pt. 2 (Series tied 1-1)

[bigbluebird]

17 seconds

 

[cheech70]

Well it can be the chicken or the egg.

I thought overall it was a very good display of 3 zone hockey. Pushing it up ice,getting support from forwards and great saves. Then start off 3rd with PK and do great job killing. Then as we hit the 10 minute mark we stopped the forecheck and retreated towards center ice to defend or so it seemed. The rangers collectively looked out of gas in the 3rd. They were behind on most plays and Step and Hayes were very off.

So did the habs force them to play this way? Or did AV tell them to concentrate on D?

What came first the chicken or the egg?

 

[Irishguy42]

Tomorrow will probably be* the game that tells us who wins the series.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

It is not about knowing better or more. Some things should just be common sense. One needs not be Bowman to figure out that in the last minute of the game, it should probably be your best defense men on the ice. And maybe the 3rd period strategy of icing the puck should be examined.

Their whole argument is "You don't know better than the coach" So since that's the extent of their thought process I included enough to show why it's a stupid argument. Trust me, I'm definitely with you as far as anyone with common sense should be able to see these flaws regardless of if they're a coach or not.

 

[cheech70]

Tomorrow will probably the game that tells us who wins the series.

Game 3 too soon for that conclusion

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I am not one to usually criticize AV (and actually find it funny when people say AV coached well in Game 1 and poorly in Game 2, like there is a real obvious difference), but I think AV needs to impress upon Hayes that he's not here solely to be responsible.

Truth time, I accidentally missed game 1. But I did see all these people crowing about "Man, what a GREAT game AV called! Shows what this board knows right!?"

So I made that concession that "OK sure we'll assume he coached this supposedly phenomenal game in game 1." Even if he did coach sooo noticeably well in game 1, this abysmal job he did in game 2 shows why so many people have a problem. So the POINT had nothing to do with if he actually coached a good game. He's an NHL head coach with hundreds of wins. of course he CAN coach well. The point is to tell certain people like BRB to save the stupid I told you so stuff when there are clearly massive flaws with this turtle loving imbecile.

 

[chosen]

Two games in a row we played the 3rd period the same way. Short 15-30 second shifts. Only 1-2 players past the redline. Get the puck deep and go for a change. Didn't use Stepan for many defensive faceoffs.

I'm not referring to the 3rd periods. Hayes seems afraid to commit to an offense posture on every shift.

 

[Siddi]

I'm not referring to the 3rd periods. Hayes seems afraid to commit to an offense posture on every shift.

Hayes has been a ****ing ghost so far in this series. Playing scared and constantly loses the puck.

 

[themilosh]

Game 3 too soon for that conclusion

Yup. Ive been around the game for decades going back to the early 80s when R1 was best of 5. There is absolutely no "deciding" game other than the 4th win. Now if a team goes up 3-0 certainly the odds get better, in that they can win a lucky one but otherwise each game is mutually exclusive.

Im a habs fan but the Rags/Habs are pretty evenly matched. This series goes 7, at which point Habs have a 54% chance of winning.

Basically, flip a coin.

 

[haveandare]

Well it can be the chicken or the egg.

I thought overall it was a very good display of 3 zone hockey. Pushing it up ice,getting support from forwards and great saves. Then start off 3rd with PK and do great job killing. Then as we hit the 10 minute mark we stopped the forecheck and retreated towards center ice to defend or so it seemed. The rangers collectively looked out of gas in the 3rd. They were behind on most plays and Step and Hayes were very off.

So did the habs force them to play this way? Or did AV tell them to concentrate on D?

What came first the chicken or the egg?

It'd be a pretty big coincidence if every team we've played over the years with AV forced us to totally stop trying to possess the puck when we have a lead in the third.

It's a conscious choice, it's cost us before and it will cost us again.

No other team "forces" you to dump the puck at the blue line and go off for a change every chance to enter their zone.

 

[chosen]

Truth time, I accidentally missed game 1. But I did see all these people crowing about "Man, what a GREAT game AV called! Shows what this board knows right!?"

So I made that concession that "OK sure we'll assume he coached this supposedly phenomenal game in game 1." Even if he did coach sooo noticeably well in game 1, this abysmal job he did in game 2 shows why so many people have a problem. So the POINT had nothing to do with if he actually coached a good game. He's an NHL head coach with hundreds of wins. of course he CAN coach well. The point is to tell certain people like BRB to save the stupid I told you so stuff when there are clearly massive flaws with this turtle loving imbecile.

I just disagree with the notion that a coach coaches a good game in one game and then a bad game in the next game.

They all coach the same way every game and the difference between the way any coach coaches at all is so minute to be indistinguishable.

If there was such a thing as an appreciably better coach, he would always win. There is no such coach and the truth is that there is no way to form a consensus on who or who isn't a good coach.

Go to any fan forum here and I guarantee you that the bulk of the fans there think the coach is an idiot. It's as much of a constant as anything in mathematics and it means that as a whole, evaluations of coaches by fans are virtually worthless.

Personnel, health, and luck is what wins and it's always been that way. The coach has very little impact on the outcome, if any.

For the most part this is also true in all of the 4 major sports, especially baseball, where a manager has zero impact on results. Two noticeable exceptions are Bellichick in football, who is just better at it and Popovich in the NBA who has the ability to get millionaires to check their ego at the door.

Edit: The only time I have ever noticed coaching being a factor in hockey is when the Soviet Union first came and played here. They understood way before us that maintaining control of the puck was paramount.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Woke up this morning still irrate at how we lost yesterday's game.

Then I remembered how we're the team that managed to lose 3 Stanley Cup Finals games in overtime. I wouldn't wish that on my worse enemy.

Still waiting for the "blessing" part of being a fan. The curse has already made itself known plenty of times.

 

[RGY]

Waiting for Kreider, Stepan, and Hayes to get their **** together and start playing hockey.

 

[Brief Candle]

#TankForSutter

We were largely outworked the entire game. The first goal was nonsense, but that doesn't excuse losing so many personal battles. Not to mention the entire team not noticing Hank being stickless. Even Joe alluded to it at one point: So many times throughout that game we needed someone to hold on to the puck and just make a play.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Waiting for Kreider, Stepan, and Hayes to get their **** together and start playing hockey.

Derek Stepan, with those 96 playoff games looking like a real veteran out there.

 

[cheech70]

It'd be a pretty big coincidence if every team we've played over the years with AV forced us to totally stop trying to possess the puck when we have a lead in the third.

It's a conscious choice, it's cost us before and it will cost us again.

No other team "forces" you to dump the puck at the blue line and go off for a change every chance to enter their zone.

So the idea behind the dump is to prevent an odd man rush off a turnover..sort of like a prevent defense in football. Yea I don't like it AV needs to gamble a bit more when things are stale as they are with Hayes and Step and change things up. 5 man back is probably a high percentage move but with the Habs offensive deficiencies it makes sense for us to out skate and out create them. Less creative teams want the play to be plodding and in front of the opposition goalie for scrum type goals.

The thing I loved about Parcels in playoff games he took calculated chances in big spots. AV needs to grow a pair.

 

[Boruto]

Vigneault plays scared hockey. Scared to make a mistake, scared to give in order to get. You might win a game on a particular night this way but over the course of 7 games and 4 series, the aggressor will come out on top. Vigneault is a grade A regular season coach. Not a Stanley cup winning coach at all. Time to move on. The more fearful you are, the more likely you're going to do the exact opposite of what you're supposed to do in a heads up situation.

 

[Leetch66]

Waiting for Kreider, Stepan, and Hayes to get their **** together and start playing hockey.

When the going gets rough & tough , well you know the rest of our story .

 

[cheech70]

Derek Stepan, with those 96 playoff games looking like a real veteran out there.

He is slow to start but when he drops from there its painful.

 

[cheech70]

Vigneault plays scared hockey. Scared to make a mistake, scared to give in order to get. You might win a game on a particular night this way but over the course of 7 games and 4 series, the aggressor will come out on top. Vigneault is a grade A regular season coach. Not a Stanley cup winning coach at all. Time to move on. The more fearful you are, the more likely you're going to do the exact opposite of what you're supposed to do in a heads up situation.

This is it on AV

 

[haveandare]

So the idea behind the dump is to prevent an odd man rush off a turnover..sort of like a prevent defense in football. Yea I don't like it AV needs to gamble a bit more when things are stale as they are with Hayes and Step and change things up. 5 man back is probably a high percentage move but with the Habs offensive deficiencies it makes sense for us to out skate and out create them. Less creative teams want the play to be plodding and in front of the opposition goalie for scrum type goals.

The thing I loved about Parcels in playoff games he took calculated chances in big spots. AV needs to grow a pair.

I don't even think it's high percentage honesty. The issue is, in order to prevent a theoretical odd man rush, we give the team ~20 minutes of infinite chances to enter our zone, get set up, and get good shots off. The chances of them scoring in that situation are a lot higher than the chances of them getting and then converting on an odd man rush against a dialed in Hank when we're actually trying to possess the puck and play in their end.

And we essentially guarantee that we have no chance to score again ourselves.

And we essentially guarantee that, should the other team score and tie, we're going to be playing slower and more reticent while competing for the GWG.

Becoming more conservative at the end with a lead is fine - but going all the way to dumping and changing and never even trying to drive play is a huge mistake.

 

[cheech70]

I don't even think it's high percentage honesty. The issue is, in order to prevent a theoretical odd man rush, we give the team ~20 minutes of infinite chances to enter our zone, get set up, and get good shots off. The chances of them scoring in that situation are a lot higher than the chances of them getting and then converting on an odd man rush against a dialed in Hank when we're actually trying to possess the puck and play in their end.

And we essentially guarantee that we have no chance to score again ourselves.

And we essentially guarantee that, should the other team score and tie, we're going to be playing slower and more reticent while competing for the GWG.

Becoming more conservative at the end with a lead is fine - but going all the way to dumping and changing and never even trying to drive play is a huge mistake.

I think I heard Step in the postgame say we need to continue to make plays in the third with a lead....hopefully AV can adjust

 

[NickyFotiu]

I'm not referring to the 3rd periods. Hayes seems afraid to commit to an offense posture on every shift.

That is interesting because for a lot of the last 2 months he rarely crossed the red line to play defense. Is it possible that the coaches pointed that out so he adjusted his game in the opposite direction?

 

[cheech70]

Also while Im here...One question can Kreider skate near Price or is he going to continue to ignore his signature drive on the left wing and cut to the front of the goalie? 2 times he could have and didn't.. Is Chris a PC hockey player?

 

[NickyFotiu]

I felt like my buddy kept jinxing the team last night. We were up 3-2 and he kept texting bad jokes about the Rangers. He spoke about Lundy's stick, the Rangers not knowing the game is played on both sides of the ice, and Lundy playing like he does (he is a bad goalie). I felt his negative energy with every text. I told him to stop numerous times. I knew he was going to cost us the game. I told him I'm blocking his number next game.