Player Discussion Sam Gagner

[CanaFan]

Two points in one game is more than Sam Gagner has had in any game this year.

Do you understand that players play different roles and are deployed differently, which can have an effect on their production? Unlike Gagner, Jake doesn't get to play on the PP and also doesn't take shifts in OT. These are both environments where it is easier to put up points and really the only places where Gagner has been able to do so.

Pretty much.

It’s a pretty basic equation really and goes something like this:

Bad off-puck play + (mediocre production x favorable deployment) + signed to bad contract = generally disliked player


Jake’s equation on the other hand is more like this:

Great off-puck play + (mediocre production x limited deployment) + 21 years old and in 2nd NHL season = decently liked player who doesn’t suck like Sam Gagner

 

[Zippgunn]

Two points in one game is more than Sam Gagner has had in any game this year.

Do you understand that players play different roles and are deployed differently, which can have an effect on their production? Unlike Gagner, Jake doesn't get to play on the PP and also doesn't take shifts in OT. These are both environments where it is easier to put up points and really the only places where Gagner has been able to do so.

40% of Gagner's points have come on the power play. 44% of Boeser's points have also come on the PP but I'm betting that if I said that Brock is doing so well because he has a lot of easy minutes you would laugh at me. Justifiably too.

 

[Melvin]

40% of Gagner's points have come on the power play. 44% of Boeser's points have also come on the PP but I'm betting that if I said that Brock is doing so well because he has a lot of easy minutes you would laugh at me. Justifiably too.

This is what we meant in the other thread when we said that people are not arguing honestly using logic. They are intentionally saying absurd things to get a reaction.

We need to do a better job of ignoring posts like this and not taking the bait.

 

[CanaFan]

40% of Gagner's points have come on the power play. 44% of Boeser's points have also come on the PP but I'm betting that if I said that Brock is doing so well because he has a lot of easy minutes you would laugh at me. Justifiably too.

44% of a lotta points vs 40% of a few points.

Figure out the difference.

 

[CanaFan]

This is what we meant in the other thread when we said that people are not arguing honestly using logic. They are intentionally saying absurd things to get a reaction.

We need to do a better job of ignoring posts like this and not taking the bait.

I’m only here for the stupid posts.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

I’m only here for the stupid posts.

 

[Zippgunn]

We aren’t talking about Calder eligibility or pro games, we are talking about what constitutes “playing a season” in the NHL.

You consider Jake’s 10 NHL games in 2016-17 to be his second NHL season.

Therefore I assume you also consider Boeser’s 9 games in 2016-17 to be his first NHL season.

Yes? No?

I’m trying to make this simple and clear for you as I can see you are struggling to keep up. Don’t let me down.



We understand just fine, it’s you that keeps moving the goalposts to avoid having to answer the question. No one mentioned Calder eligibility. No one mentioned AHL games. I said Jake was in his 2nd NHL season, you said it was his 3rd. Now you won’t answer if Boeser’s 9 games last year similarly constitute a season. And everyone knows why you won’t. It’s pathetic.

He's in his 3rd professional season. Your comparison with Boeser is deliberately obtuse since Brock played 9 games as a pro that year which nobody would consider a "season" .Virtanen's 2nd pro season would perhaps have been an "NHL season" by your rubric if he had been good enough to stick (and play whatever your minimum is that constitutes an "NHL season") but he wasn't. Maybe we can blame the other scapegoat for that (and to some even this) year, Willie Desjardins for this failure. My question to you is this: what constitutes an "NHL season"? Being good enough to play 55 NHL games in his first pro season and then being bad enough to only play 10 the next season seems to get him a pass from you (and many others) for that season. Not me. The good news: he's playing his best hockey yet. One thing I think we can both agree on is that this is good news. Hope he continues improving so this conversation becomes moot.

 

[CanaFan]

He's in his 3rd professional season. Your comparison with Boeser is deliberately obtuse since Brock played 9 games as a pro that year which nobody would consider a "season" .Virtanen's 2nd pro season would perhaps have been an "NHL season" by your rubric if he had been good enough to stick (and play whatever your minimum is that constitutes an "NHL season") but he wasn't. Maybe we can blame the other scapegoat for that (and to some even this) year, Willie Desjardins for this failure. My question to you is this: what constitutes an "NHL season"? Being good enough to play 55 NHL games in his first pro season and then being bad enough to only play 10 the next season seems to get him a pass from you (and many others) for that season. Not me. The good news: he's playing his best hockey yet. One thing I think we can both agree on is that this is good news. Hope he continues improving so this conversation becomes moot.

If I had meant Jake was in his 2nd pro season I would have typed the word “pro”. But I didn’t. I typed the word “NHL”. Therefore you correcting me on him being in his “3rd NHL season” is incorrect. Playing in the AHL or “pro” is not the equivalent of playing in the NHL despite your repeated attempts to cover your mistake by saying they are. And since you refuse to apply the standard of 9 games constituting “a season” to Boeser (and hide behind irrelevant tangents about Willie D or whether Jake “deserved” to be in the NHL) I will assume you know 9-10 games does not constitute “a season”.

So kindly apologize and admit your mistake or quit posting and wasting my time. Either one is fine with me.

 

[Zippgunn]

If I had meant Jake was in his 2nd pro season I would have typed the word “pro”. But I didn’t. I typed the word “NHL”. Therefore you correcting me on him being in his “3rd NHL season” is incorrect. Playing in the AHL or “pro” is not the equivalent of playing in the NHL despite your repeated attempts to cover your mistake by saying they are. And since you refuse to apply the standard of 9 games constituting “a season” to Boeser (and hide behind irrelevant tangents about Willie D or whether Jake “deserved” to be in the NHL) I will assume you know 9-10 games does not constitute “a season”.

So kindly apologize and admit your mistake or quit posting and wasting my time. Either one is fine with me.

The only thing I'll apologize for is bringing up Jake in the first place since this is supposed to be a thread about how badly Gagner "sucks" despite being 7th in team scoring while playing all over the lineup. Go pick your nits with somebody else.

 

[CanaFan]

The only thing I'll apologize for is bringing up Jake in the first place since this is supposed to be a thread about how badly Gagner "sucks" despite being 7th in team scoring while playing all over the lineup. Go pick your nits with somebody else.

You picked the first nit when you objected wrongly to my saying Jake was in his 2nd NHL. Don’t add hypocrisy to your already long list of failings in this discussion.

 

[CanaFan]

And yes, Gagner sucks. 15 pts in 37 games isn’t impressive when factoring in his TOI (14.8 mins) and PP deployment (2mins per game). And his points are by far the best part of his game, as all his play off the puck is atrocious. He’s also 28 and in his 10th NHL season so comparing him to a 21 year old in his 2nd NHL season and 3rd pro season is just as stupid as saying he’s disliked because Kassian broke his face with a stick.

 

[Addison Rae]

The only thing I'll apologize for is bringing up Jake in the first place since this is supposed to be a thread about how badly Gagner "sucks" despite being 7th in team scoring while playing all over the lineup. Go pick your nits with somebody else.

Sam Gagner is complete and utter garbage, he's been one of the worst even strength players in the entire NHL this year.

The fact that you're constructing your point solely on points shows how you clearly don't understand how to evaluate hockey players. Sam Gagner has bled goals against this year, and is barley scoring at all at even strength. This is a clear example of a soft tweener replacement level Linden Vey type of player. Guy has been junk all year and is getting killed at even strength.

 

[me2]

40% of Gagner's points have come on the power play. 44% of Boeser's points have also come on the PP but I'm betting that if I said that Brock is doing so well because he has a lot of easy minutes you would laugh at me. Justifiably too.

37 games, 2-7-9. -17

34 games, 14-5-19. -2

Same same

 

[CanaFan]

37 games, 2-7-9. -17

34 games, 14-5-19. -2

Same same

But ... but ... the %’s look almost the same!!

 

[borisbadenough]

How do Sam's assists break out primary vs. sec? how is he defensively? (I know that 5x5 that line is real weak down the middle and when the wrong d pair is out there with them it is a disaster.) . How is Sam's vision, hands, S%? Is he unselfish with the puck. Does he make the right decision with it when it is on his stick, especially in the O zone? Hockey IQ? Most importantly, does he make the other guys on his line better?

I have watched him play with Vanek for a month with limited line minutes and then in the couple with Brock and TV and more minutes. Different guy. Previously he couldn't find TV with binoculars when he was open and he was a little selfish with the puck.Tonight against Chicago he looks like a different guy. Vision better, hands better, not as selfish with the puck. Who knows. A blip?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

ZG i dare you to buy a sam gagner jersey

 

[NoShowWilly]

-18 now. Should be a stat to watch. I'll go out on a limb and say he makes -50.

Lol put that to rest pretty quick.

 

[Ace of Hades]

He played his best game as a Canuck tonight.

 

[Zippgunn]

3 points tonight, GWG (his 2nd this month, out of 4 total), a +5, 7 points in 6 games, yup he sucks alright. Needless to say over on the GDT the [MOD] are doing their best to ignore his work tonight which amuses me greatly. Much talk about how it's his linemates making all the difference etc. It's almost like he is trying to annoy all the [MOD] in the Canuck fanbase. As an actual fan of this team I hope he continues in this endeavor. It sure is entertaining to watch...

 

[CanaFan]

3 points tonight, GWG (his 2nd this month, out of 4 total), a +5, 7 points in 6 games, yup he sucks alright. Needless to say over on the GDT the [MOD] are doing their best to ignore his work tonight which amuses me greatly. Much talk about how it's his linemates making all the difference etc. It's almost like he is trying to annoy all the [MOD] in the Canuck fanbase. As an actual fan of this team I hope he continues in this endeavor. It sure is entertaining to watch...

Congrats, he’s had a few good games. If he’d had them earlier and more often people might’ve had a different opinion of him. But go on, whine about how people were so unfair to Gagner while he played like crap until the last couple games.

 

[sting101]

I'm actually pretty happy for Sam right now.
He's been an aid to the PP. He's good 1v1 against goalies. He's shown an ability to step up and also has positional versatility.
While he needs to be sheltered on a 4th line for the most part 5v5 I'm mostly happy about the fact he was the only guy scrapping to defend Virtanen against Nashville. He fought Hansen against San Jose and has played with heart for this group of players.
He's been ok in my books.

 

[Zippgunn]

I'm actually pretty happy for Sam right now.
He's been an aid to the PP. He's good 1v1 against goalies. He's shown an ability to step up and also has positional versatility.
While he needs to be sheltered on a 4th line for the most part 5v5 I'm mostly happy about the fact he was the only guy scrapping to defend Virtanen against Nashville. He fought Hansen against San Jose and has played with heart for this group of players.
He's been ok in my books.

Mine too. We are, however, greatly outnumbered by "fans" who seem to feel the need to totally hate him for whatever reason. I'm not sure exactly what it would take for this crowd to actually get behind the guy. Certainly more than big goals, steady production and even fighting (hardly his mandate but something that almost always pleases Canuck fans). He can't win.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Mine too. We are, however, greatly outnumbered by "fans" who seem to feel the need to totally hate him for whatever reason. I'm not sure exactly what it would take for this crowd to actually get behind the guy. Certainly more than big goals, steady production and even fighting (hardly his mandate but something that almost always pleases Canuck fans). He can't win.

It would take Sam playing better for a similar stretch of games that he stunk up the joint.
But what do I know, I'm probably just a "fan."

 

[Melvin]

Pretty ridiculous that we have this 20 year old rookie that you can just toss with any player and he'll elevate that players game. If they play together long enough, Boeser could resurrect Gagner's NHL career. Crazy thought.

 

[Zippgunn]

Pretty ridiculous that we have this 20 year old rookie that you can just toss with any player and he'll elevate that players game. If they play together long enough, Boeser could resurrect Gagner's NHL career. Crazy thought.

Right, because everything that Gagner has done this year is a result of Brock. Do you even watch the games?