Player Discussion Sam Gagner

[ProstheticConscience]

You’re right, you shouldn’t have wasted your breath. That post barely makes sense and the parts that do are just laughably wrong.

Save us all some time and stop posting please. It’s painful to watch.

Yeah, he's brought this Oilers/Kassian crap up before even though literally nobody has mentioned it here.

Headline: Canucks fans don't like Canucks player who sucks! Also in the news, water continues to be wet.

 

[CanaFan]

Yeah, he's brought this Oilers/Kassian crap up before even though literally nobody has mentioned it here.

Headline: Canucks fans don't like Canucks player who sucks! Also in the news, water continues to be wet.

The weirdest part is his notion that nobody maligns Eriksson or Virtanen. Like those are literally the two worst examples you could give outside of perhaps Luca Sbisa and Mark Messier.

 

[Zippgunn]

Oh well, at any rate I'm just noting my experiences in the real world; I'm honestly not trying to troll, just trying to figure out why fans of a team feel the need to hate one of their own players even though by my metrics he is doing pretty much what was expected. Eriksson is being cut a lot of slack this year (and rightly so; he's been OK) and Virtanen is being lauded for almost anything by the vast majority of Canuck fans. And, yeah, I could never figure out the Sbisa hate and don't even get me started on Messier. I'm a Canuck fan and it bugs me when Canuck players get criticized for what I think are dubious reasons. Sorry.

 

[RobertKron]

Next week, on Zippgunn: PI. Goin’ undercover to expose the anti-Gagner conspiracy and save lil Sammy from the evil Virtanenites.

 

[Hit the post]

Gagner is trash and should be benched IMO, non productive ,soft & bad defensevly. Bad signing, really thought he would be better than this. 2 more years WTF

Ignoring his contract - I wouldn't call him trash.

Now his contract on the other hand.......not Eriksson bad but still trash.

 

[Melvin]

Is there any room on an NHL team for a guy who can basically only play on the PP, or on 3-on-3/shootouts?

I kinda think that there is, but teams almost never do this, and Gagner isn't even good enough on the PP to be on the top unit most times. And it's certainly not worth 3M.

I think it would be a bit cool to see though. Dress 13 forwards with Gagner only playing on the PP and after regulation. What is there to lose?

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Oh well, at any rate I'm just noting my experiences in the real world; I'm honestly not trying to troll, just trying to figure out why fans of a team feel the need to hate one of their own players even though by my metrics he is doing pretty much what was expected. Eriksson is being cut a lot of slack this year (and rightly so; he's been OK) and Virtanen is being lauded for almost anything by the vast majority of Canuck fans. And, yeah, I could never figure out the Sbisa hate and don't even get me started on Messier. I'm a Canuck fan and it bugs me when Canuck players get criticized for what I think are dubious reasons. Sorry.

Ah, there's the problem. You're using whatever weirdo metrics you personally use (ie: randos at bar said something) instead of real things. Yup. That's it. Now if we could just fix your hallucinations about Kassian and Virtanen...

 

[CanaFan]

Maybe the reason Virtanen is being “lauded” is because he’s a 21 year old kid in his 2nd season of the NHL who is still struggling to figure out his game. Gagner is ... not any of those things.

 

[Zippgunn]

4 points in 5 games and so bad that the coach put him on a line with our new superstar and Vanek where he won the puck battle behind the net, got it in front and perfectly distributed the puck to his more offensively talented linemates which resulted in our only goal. Pure trash. P.S. to Canafan: Virt is in his 3rd NHL season not his 2nd and is currently scoring at the same pace as last year which indicates to me that his progress is stalled somewhat. He's looked better in the last few games than he has at any time in his career so there's hope. As someone else said if he turns into a really good 3rd liner I would be happy. Anything else will be gravy. Lots of fans cutting him endless slack because of where he's from and his high draft position. I remember Cody Hodgson getting the same treatment. I wish him well; we need him to be great not just decent.

 

[Zippgunn]

Ah, there's the problem. You're using whatever weirdo metrics you personally use (ie: randos at bar said something) instead of real things. Yup. That's it. Now if we could just fix your hallucinations about Kassian and Virtanen...

My "weirdo" metrics suggested that he would have a fall off from last year which was IMHO an aberration. I figured he would score 30 - 35 points. He's on pace for 33 points. My "hallucinations" about Kass proved correct; he was useless for us and a train wreck off the ice. Virtanen is pretty much where he was last year although he looks like he might just finally break out. He does, however, have 3 points this month, 2 in one game. So he's not quite there yet.

 

[Canucks1096]

Virt is in his 3rd NHL season not his 2nd and is currently scoring at the same pace

Virtanen 2nd nhl season was only 10 games. So this season is his 2nd full season in the nhl

 

[CanaFan]

4 points in 5 games and so bad that the coach put him on a line with our new superstar and Vanek where he won the puck battle behind the net, got it in front and perfectly distributed the puck to his more offensively talented linemates which resulted in our only goal. Pure trash. P.S. to Canafan: Virt is in his 3rd NHL season not his 2nd and is currently scoring at the same pace as last year which indicates to me that his progress is stalled somewhat. He's looked better in the last few games than he has at any time in his career so there's hope. As someone else said if he turns into a really good 3rd liner I would be happy. Anything else will be gravy. Lots of fans cutting him endless slack because of where he's from and his high draft position. I remember Cody Hodgson getting the same treatment. I wish him well; we need him to be great not just decent.

You consider 10 games to be a season?

Do you consider Brock Boeser to be in his 2nd NHL season right now?

 

[Zippgunn]

Virtanen 2nd nhl season was only 10 games. So this season is his 2nd full season in the nhl

It's his 3rd year as a pro; he played only 10 NHL games because he didn't deserve to be here.

 

[RobertKron]

In what world is Virtanen putting up points at the same pace as last season?

 

[CanaFan]

It's his 3rd year as a pro; he played only 10 NHL games because he didn't deserve to be here.

3rd year pro =/= 3rd year in the NHL.

Again, do you consider Boeser to be in his 2nd NHL season right now?

 

[RobertKron]

3rd year pro =/= 3rd year in the NHL.

Again, do you consider Boeser to be in his 2nd NHL season right now?

 

[Zippgunn]

Boeser played 9 games in his first season as a pro so he is still eligible for the Calder and is considered to be in his 1st pro year by that metric. Jake played 55 pro (NHL) games in his 1st (Calder eligible) year and 75 (10 NHL) games in his second which meant he would have been ineligible for the Calder in that year. He is now 33 games into his 3rd year as a pro in a career in which he has played 165 games as a pro. Can't believe I have to explain this to people.

 

[Zippgunn]

In what world is Virtanen putting up points at the same pace as last season?

1st season: .236 PPG
2nd season (AHL) .292 (NHL) .100 (NHL stat is too small a sample size to be relevant IMHO)
3rd season: .272 (so far)

 

[CanaFan]

Boeser played 9 games in his first season as a pro so he is still eligible for the Calder and is considered to be in his 1st pro year by that metric. Jake played 55 pro (NHL) games in his 1st (Calder eligible) year and 75 (10 NHL) games in his second which meant he would have been ineligible for the Calder in that year. He is now 33 games into his 3rd year as a pro in a career in which he has played 165 games as a pro.

We aren’t talking about Calder eligibility or pro games, we are talking about what constitutes “playing a season” in the NHL.

You consider Jake’s 10 NHL games in 2016-17 to be his second NHL season.

Therefore I assume you also consider Boeser’s 9 games in 2016-17 to be his first NHL season.

Yes? No?

I’m trying to make this simple and clear for you as I can see you are struggling to keep up. Don’t let me down.

Can't believe I have to explain this to people.

We understand just fine, it’s you that keeps moving the goalposts to avoid having to answer the question. No one mentioned Calder eligibility. No one mentioned AHL games. I said Jake was in his 2nd NHL season, you said it was his 3rd. Now you won’t answer if Boeser’s 9 games last year similarly constitute a season. And everyone knows why you won’t. It’s pathetic.

 

[RobertKron]

1st season: .236 PPG
2nd season (AHL) .292 (NHL) .100 (NHL stat is too small a sample size to be relevant IMHO)
3rd season: .272 (so far)

You said he was scoring at the same pace as last year. You understand that the NHL is a better league than the AHL, yes?

 

[CanaFan]

You said he was scoring at the same pace as last year. You understand that the NHL is a better league than the AHL, yes?

Based on what I’ve seen so far you shouldn’t make that assumption.

 

[Melvin]

I dunno. I think it's kind of reasonable to call this his third year when he spent most of his second year not good enough to play. If he had spent 5 seasons in the AHL and then came back up would we call that his second NHL season? It is one of those things that is technically true but functionally useless.

If Sam Gagner (remember him) had spent more of his 15-16 season wtht the Phantoms then would we not be counting that year as an NHL season?

Not that it matters. Obviously Jake is miles ahead of where he was last year which is what counts.

 

[CanaFan]

I dunno. I think it's kind of reasonable to call this his third year when he spent most of his second year not good enough to play. If he had spent 5 seasons in the AHL and then came back up would we call that his second NHL season? It is one of those things that is technically true but functionally useless.

If Sam Gagner (remember him) had spent more of his 15-16 season wtht the Phantoms then would we not be counting that year as an NHL season?

Not that it matters. Obviously Jake is miles ahead of where he was last year which is what counts.

I’d call it his 2nd NHL season sooner than I’d call it his 7th.

 

[Verviticus]

the number of seasons a player has been in the nhl isnt as important as their age, anyways

 

[Melvin]

My "weirdo" metrics suggested that he would have a fall off from last year which was IMHO an aberration. I figured he would score 30 - 35 points. He's on pace for 33 points. My "hallucinations" about Kass proved correct; he was useless for us and a train wreck off the ice. Virtanen is pretty much where he was last year although he looks like he might just finally break out. He does, however, have 3 points this month, 2 in one game. So he's not quite there yet.

Two points in one game is more than Sam Gagner has had in any game this year.

Do you understand that players play different roles and are deployed differently, which can have an effect on their production? Unlike Gagner, Jake doesn't get to play on the PP and also doesn't take shifts in OT. These are both environments where it is easier to put up points and really the only places where Gagner has been able to do so.