Salary Cap: Salary Cap Thread - Waiting for Goaldot

[HandshakeLine]

I'm guessing the crossover between Pittsburgh Penguins fans and Samuel Beckett fans is a pretty small demographic.

There are dozens of us! DOZENS!

 

[Peat]

Yep. The point is that when a team like Tampa is as good as it is elsewhere, they can afford to have a bottom 6 that isn't better than ours.

We should be constructing a more diverse and cohesive team pretty much across the board. If our top 6 were at least cohesive it'd be one thing, but it isn't.

How are you proposing to have a better, more diverse bottom six than the one we've got for 9.3m (non Carter version) or 11.2m (Carter, who radically changes the look of it)? I mean, Blake Coleman and Barclay Goodrow are now worth nearly that non-Carter amount at 8.5m alone. Should we be paying up multiple 1sts to acquire the cheap versions of them that fit into our budget?

And what's the standard for a good enough bottom six where all of them (assuming Carter's in) tracked for over 20 5v5 points last season and two of them for over 30? Is this simply about attributes? How much more skill do you want than Carter at 3C, Blueger at 4C?

I get what you want. I think it's probably a good idea. I just don't see how we're meant to have a bottom six with these players unless you want to have a really expensive bottom six, which I know you don't, or you get them through the youth pipeline, and ours probably isn't ready yet.

edit:

I guess the TLR version is

1) I think this is a pretty good bottom six. Maybe not amazing, but pretty good, and truth be told I can't see many amazing ones out of there.

2) I don't see a lot of things Hextall could have done different with the money

3) I think it could be better and that'd be a good thing, but that's all up to the kids and that's not something that can be anticipated too much.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Molinari has an article today wondering aloud if the Pens should go after Lundqvist when he’s medically cleared to play…lol

I mean, I'd pissed if they didn't at least ask.

 

[chethejet]

Pens cap room at least gives Hextall limited moves which to keep the party going when all the good looking girls are gone. Next year will be the question are they retooling or being stupid with contracts for Letang and Malkin. Let the young prospects play and gain experience and make the roster moves in 2022-23 with Poulin, Legare, DOC, Hallander, and POJ. Replace Rust with a RW with grit and size
Jake Sid ?
Zucker Malkin? Kap
McGinn Poulin Legare
Bjorkqvist/Heinen TB Angelo/Lafferty

 

[HandshakeLine]

Lol at the hot "trade Malkin!" takes hitting the thread again.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Hell, if you want to see non journeymen UFAs on the team/young kids making a play for a spot or two, signing Letang and Malkin to reasonable extensions makes it more likely than trading them.

 

[Peat]

Hell, if you want to see non journeymen UFAs on the team/young kids making a play for a spot or two, signing Letang and Malkin to reasonable extensions makes it more likely than trading them.

Kids yeah, but not sure on your logic on the UFAs.

Tbh, I figure if we want to retool, we're best off bringing back Malkin and Letang to teach a new generation, and trading off the late 20s guys with asset value (shame we let Rust walk to UFA in such a scenario). Letting them walk just gives you a lot of space to hand out Jason Zucker money to Jason Zucker players. I ain't got no problem with one or two of them if they've got the right fit, but filling a team is how you become Minnesota, not a team that retools for its future.

 

[Ugene Magic]

There are dozens of us! DOZENS!

 

[HandshakeLine]

Kids yeah, but not sure on your logic on the UFAs.

Tbh, I figure if we want to retool, we're best off bringing back Malkin and Letang to teach a new generation, and trading off the late 20s guys with asset value (shame we let Rust walk to UFA in such a scenario). Letting them walk just gives you a lot of space to hand out Jason Zucker money to Jason Zucker players. I ain't got no problem with one or two of them if they've got the right fit, but filling a team is how you become Minnesota, not a team that retools for its future.

Maybe I phrased it a little badly, but I think we're roughly on the same page here. Giving the Pens that much cap space (because let's face it, you're not getting McK or whoever the new franchise face du jour is) for Malkin or Letang in the twilight of their careers is going to be a bad bad thing. You might get a good package of futures for the trades, but you'll need to sign some UFAs for insane contracts to keep things going until we get another 2 or 3 superstars to start the come up. You're not getting generational players in UFA, you're getting massively overpaid above-average players, like Zucker. The best hope to keep things relevant or to change things up without giving in totally to a tank is moving pieces like Rust or Zucker and hoping that we get some young blood coming out of WB/S like Rust or Guentzel did to make up for the wear and tear on our stars.

Plus, I agree that Malkin certainly is as much of a leader on this team as Sid is. Geno stays as long as he wants, same with Sid. Letang is slightly more variable but I think in the end he elects to stay a Pen for the rest of his career.

 

[Peat]

Maybe I phrased it a little badly, but I think we're roughly on the same page here. Giving the Pens that much cap space (because let's face it, you're not getting McK or whoever the new franchise face du jour is) for Malkin or Letang in the twilight of their careers. You'll get a good package of futures, but you'll need to sign some UFAs for insane contracts to keep things going until we get another 2 or 3 superstars to start the come up. You're not getting generational players in UFA, you're getting massively overpaid above-average players, like Zucker.

Plus, I agree that Malkin certainly is as much of a leader on this team as Sid is. Geno stays as long as he wants, same with Sid. Letang is slightly more variable but I think in the end he elects to stay a Pen for the rest of his career.

D'accord. You ain't even getting that good a package when they're pending UFAs, particularly for Geno and his NMC. Those days are been and gone. Signing them back just to trade them is for scumbags.

 

[Pens x]

Hextall is coming for the free agents.

welcome to Pittsburgh, Fedun.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

How are you proposing to have a better, more diverse bottom six than the one we've got for 9.3m (non Carter version) or 11.2m (Carter, who radically changes the look of it)? I mean, Blake Coleman and Barclay Goodrow are now worth nearly that non-Carter amount at 8.5m alone. Should we be paying up multiple 1sts to acquire the cheap versions of them that fit into our budget?

And what's the standard for a good enough bottom six where all of them (assuming Carter's in) tracked for over 20 5v5 points last season and two of them for over 30? Is this simply about attributes? How much more skill do you want than Carter at 3C, Blueger at 4C?

I get what you want. I think it's probably a good idea. I just don't see how we're meant to have a bottom six with these players unless you want to have a really expensive bottom six, which I know you don't, or you get them through the youth pipeline, and ours probably isn't ready yet.

There were a few options. If we wanted to diversify the bottom 6 at the bargain bin, we could've upgraded in terms of skill with a guy like Kase, or size with a guy like Perry. Both have their inherent risks, but I'd take either risk rather than be content with Rodrigues' vanilla standard that somehow manages to get rocketed up the depth chart at the first sign of an injury on Sid's line.

Ultimately I just wanted us to either get players who addressed our lack of of size, skill, and physical play or go ultra-cheap. We didn't do either. We've developed a habit for going after the safest/most familiar depth and complementary forwards available, and that's why these players rarely make an impact for us one way or the other.

 

[Gurglesons]

There were a few options. If we wanted to diversify the bottom 6 at the bargain bin, we could've upgraded in terms of skill with a guy like Kase, or size with a guy like Perry. Both have their inherent risks, but I'd take either risk rather than be content with Rodrigues' vanilla standard that somehow manages to get rocketed up the depth chart at the first sign of an injury on Sid's line.

Ultimately I just wanted us to either get players who addressed our lack of of size, skill, and physical play or go ultra-cheap. We didn't do either. We've developed a habit for going after the safest/most familiar depth and complementary forwards available, and that's why these players rarely make an impact for us one way or the other.

Kase is far from what I'd call a skill guy. His game is basically that of Zucker or Arvidsson. Undersized guy who plays hard and fights for space around the net and has hands to score there.

He’s also likely never playing another game in the NHL. Seems like Stephen Johns the forward addition.

I assume Burkie tried to sign Perry.

 

[Gurglesons]

ZAR filed for arbitration so that means we can walk right @Riptide?

 

[Turin]

Fleury idea is done. Guess only Gibson remains as an option.

 

[Andy99]

Not another f’’king year of this! Why did they qualify him if they’re going to cheap out on him…

 

[Flying Dego]

Not another f’’king year of this! Why did they qualify him if they’re going to cheap out on him…

We shouldn't be paying ZAR much so I would've expected our offer to be maybe 1.25M for a year...he probably wants 2M or so

 

[Headshot77]

Lundqvist is Dupuis 2.0. Dude just doesn't know when to hang em up.

 

[Night Shift]

We shouldn't be paying ZAR much so I would've expected our offer to be maybe 1.25M for a year...he probably wants 2M or so

All America Hero ZAR can **** off if he wants 2 mil

 

[Andy99]

We shouldn't be paying ZAR much so I would've expected our offer to be maybe 1.25M for a year...he probably wants 2M or so

I don’t think he’s going to get $2 mil but I think he will get at least $1.7 or $1.8…if the Pens were going to qualify him, then they should have been prepared to make a $1.7 offer at least to prevent him from going to arbitration … otherwise, don’t qualify him, which is what they should have done and what I thought they were going to do

 

[Headshot77]

Lol at the hot "trade Malkin!" takes hitting the thread again.

I would only ever trade Malkin for Eichel. Nobody else who is reasonably available. And Buffalo doesn't need Malkin.

 

[Pens x]

Oh good, we are going to overpay ZAR now. The brilliant Shero-like off season continues.

Hextall is playing go fish while others play chess.

 

[Night Shift]

I don’t think he’s going to get $2 mil but I think he will get at least $1.7 or $1.8…if the Pens were going to qualify him, then they should have been prepared to make a $1.7 offer at least to prevent him from going to arbitration … otherwise, don’t qualify him, which is what they should have done and what I thought they were going to do

If they qualifyed him before FA I get it bc there was no guarantee the FA would sign here.

 

[Peat]

There were a few options. If we wanted to diversify the bottom 6 at the bargain bin, we could've upgraded in terms of skill with a guy like Kase, or size with a guy like Perry. Both have their inherent risks, but I'd take either risk rather than be content with Rodrigues' vanilla standard that somehow manages to get rocketed up the depth chart at the first sign of an injury on Sid's line.

Ultimately I just wanted us to either get players who addressed our lack of of size, skill, and physical play or go ultra-cheap. We didn't do either. We've developed a habit for going after the safest/most familiar depth and complementary forwards available, and that's why these players rarely make an impact for us one way or the other.

Perry just signed for the champs. Gotta think Burke asked him and that to have got him we'd have needed to outbid that offer, maybe by quite a bit, not forgetting the tax difference. At which point we get into my point about the money.

Kase, well, yeah, maybe. I'm a little jealous of that one on what he's been and could be. But... five concussions by 25. Plus, if we're all out there to rescue 25 year olds who have skill and had promise and it went wrong, why not celebrate Heinen? Not like they were wildly different players season before last. His real promising stretch was further away, but hasn't had a ton of concussions.

Not sure who else you might be thinking. Nick Ritchie got 2.5m. Nosek ain't that physical.

Rodrigues was 250k over minimum wage, Heinen 350k over minimum wage. The only reason to go cheaper than that and start playing guys like Lafferty is purposefully tanking. You've already said you don't want to cheap out on Blueger. That leaves McGinn as the one expensive guy who doesn't fit the bill, depending how you view the Kunitz-lite comparisonsand slower more physical Tanev and talk of inside games and what not. One guy.

I just simply don't think what you're asking for is realistic. It needed more money and assets.

 

[Andy99]

If they qualifyed him before FA I get it bc there was no guarantee the FA would sign here.

I mean, I guess…but I think they could safely assume they were going to at least be able to re-sign ERod, and sign Simon…they also have other prospects in the system who can fill a fourth line role too..I see no reason to take the risk of him getting $2 mil in arbitration and if they like him so much they’re willing to risk it, then why not make a competitive one year offer designed to avoid him filing for arbitration?….just doesn’t seem like it was handled right…they also knew he went to the arbitration hearing last time around too before settling at the last minute..