Salary Cap: Salary Cap Thread - Waiting for Goaldot

[Dipsy Doodle]

Perry just signed for the champs. Gotta think Burke asked him and that to have got him we'd have needed to outbid that offer, maybe by quite a bit, not forgetting the tax difference. At which point we get into my point about the money.

Kase, well, yeah, maybe. I'm a little jealous of that one on what he's been and could be. But... five concussions by 25. Plus, if we're all out there to rescue 25 year olds who have skill and had promise and it went wrong, why not celebrate Heinen? Not like they were wildly different players season before last. His real promising stretch was further away, but hasn't had a ton of concussions.

Not sure who else you might be thinking. Nick Ritchie got 2.5m. Nosek ain't that physical.

Rodrigues was 250k over minimum wage, Heinen 350k over minimum wage. The only reason to go cheaper than that and start playing guys like Lafferty is purposefully tanking. You've already said you don't want to cheap out on Blueger. That leaves McGinn as the one expensive guy who doesn't fit the bill, depending how you view the Kunitz-lite comparisonsand slower more physical Tanev and talk of inside games and what not. One guy.

I just simply don't think what you're asking for is realistic. It needed more money and assets.

Big moves didn't need to get done right away. I'm just saying I don't like what we've done so far, I don't like chipping away at our limited cap with non-essential skillets, and I don't like always deferring to the safest/most familiar options when we need some breakthroughs to get competitive again.

 

[Trade]

Does ZAR really think he’s worth as much as Blueger?


LOL

 

[Night Shift]

I mean, I guess…but I think they could safely assume they were going to at least be able to re-sign ERod, and sign Simon…they also have other prospects in the system who can fill a fourth line role too..I see no reason to take the risk of him getting $2 mil in arbitration and if they like him so much they’re willing to risk it, then why not make a competitive one year offer designed to avoid him filing for arbitration?….just doesn’t seem like it was handled right…they also knew he went to the arbitration hearing last time around too before settling at the last minute..

I guess the one positive to it is there is no way Simon makes it out of WB

 

[Gurglesons]

Big moves didn't need to get done right away. I'm just saying I don't like what we've done so far, I don't like chipping away at our limited cap with non-essential skillets, and I don't like always deferring to the safest/most familiar options when we need some breakthroughs to get competitive again.

Literally every organization in the NHL and outside of the NHL does this. Tampa just brought back Sustr and Bogo.

Rodrigues was great for us on the way to tops of the division. He cost 250k more than any other replacement would have.

As far as I known Heinen and McGinn have no connection to this organization or leadership.

 

[PensandCaps]

Does ZAR really think he’s worth as much as Blueger?


LOL

If you take advanced stats seriously, he is the best defensive player in the NHL over the past 3 seasons, so yah he should be worth around 2 or 3 million.

 

[Peat]

Big moves didn't need to get done right away. I'm just saying I don't like what we've done so far, I don't like chipping away at our limited cap with non-essential skillets, and I don't like always deferring to the safest/most familiar options when we need some breakthroughs to get competitive again.

The cap for big moves isn't to be found in the bottom six. It's in Zucker and Pettersson/Matheson. The 2.7m and whatever we give to ZAR (above league minimum) is roughly the cap cleared there, and it hurts a lot less than playing 4 minimum wage players over actual proven NHLers. It wouldn't even add up to enough to sign Blake Coleman.

You want as cheap as possible, and we go for maybe the best 5v5 production per dollar UFA from last season in Rodrigues, and you complain about bringing back safe options. You want guys who can breakthrough, so we get a guy in McGinn who was a legit guy on Aho's line last season who's got some grit/net front play, and you complain about him costing too much. I'm not saying you're wrong to have doubts about the situation but the laundry list of what you desired wasn't possible. Possibly a long way from possible, unless you just want to totally gut the depth.

Maybe Hextall shoulda moved Zucker or a LD to make the space to properly refresh the top 6/top 4. That could have really done something. But the bottom six? Not seeing it.

 

[Ugene Magic]

If you take advanced stats seriously, he is the best defensive player in the NHL over the past 3 seasons, so yah he should be worth around 2 or 3 million.

And advanced stats for players with small sample sizes does what?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The cap for big moves isn't to be found in the bottom six. It's in Zucker and Pettersson/Matheson. The 2.7m and whatever we give to ZAR (above league minimum) is roughly the cap cleared there, and it hurts a lot less than playing 4 minimum wage players over actual proven NHLers. It wouldn't even add up to enough to sign Blake Coleman.

You want as cheap as possible, and we go for maybe the best 5v5 production per dollar UFA from last season in Rodrigues, and you complain about bringing back safe options. You want guys who can breakthrough, so we get a guy in McGinn who was a legit guy on Aho's line last season who's got some grit/net front play, and you complain about him costing too much. I'm not saying you're wrong to have doubts about the situation but the laundry list of what you desired wasn't possible. Possibly a long way from possible, unless you just want to totally gut the depth.

Maybe Hextall shoulda moved Zucker or a LD to make the space to properly refresh the top 6/top 4. That could have really done something. But the bottom six? Not seeing it.

I don't disagree, but my stance for the 4th line has been that you go with cheapo talent on a revolving door basis unless you have something special like Cullen. A guy who can actually influence the game from the 4th line and is worth committing to. I get the BART impact, I do--trust me, it's been f***ing drilled into all of our minds repeatedly with heat maps and any number of acronym-based analytics. But when we end up spending a million or two more than we have to, all up and down the lineup (including the Matheson, Petts, Zucker problems, obv) it adds up and quickly.

 

[Gurglesons]

And advanced stats for players with small sample sizes does what?

He’s played 161 games

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't disagree, but my stance for the 4th line has been that you go with cheapo talent on a revolving door basis unless you have something special like Cullen. A guy who can actually influence the game from the 4th line and is worth committing to. I get the BART impact, I do--trust me, it's been f***ing drilled into all of our minds repeatedly with heat maps and any number of acronym-based analytics. But when we end up spending a million or two more than we have to, all up and down the lineup (including the Matheson, Petts, Zucker problems, obv) it adds up and quickly.

That is literally what we did. We got rid of two players in our bottom six making close to 6.5 million and replaced them with McGinn and Heinen.

Also, the best team in the NHL spent 10 million on their 3C and 4C last year.

 

[Gurglesons]

The cap for big moves isn't to be found in the bottom six. It's in Zucker and Pettersson/Matheson. The 2.7m and whatever we give to ZAR (above league minimum) is roughly the cap cleared there, and it hurts a lot less than playing 4 minimum wage players over actual proven NHLers. It wouldn't even add up to enough to sign Blake Coleman.

You want as cheap as possible, and we go for maybe the best 5v5 production per dollar UFA from last season in Rodrigues, and you complain about bringing back safe options. You want guys who can breakthrough, so we get a guy in McGinn who was a legit guy on Aho's line last season who's got some grit/net front play, and you complain about him costing too much. I'm not saying you're wrong to have doubts about the situation but the laundry list of what you desired wasn't possible. Possibly a long way from possible, unless you just want to totally gut the depth.

Maybe Hextall shoulda moved Zucker or a LD to make the space to properly refresh the top 6/top 4. That could have really done something. But the bottom six? Not seeing it.

Shall we also bring up the fact @Dipsy Doodle was one of the main people complaining about us signing Jankowski instead of Wennberg less than a year ago?

Yet now suddenly we are supposed to go cheap?

 

[Peat]

ZAR opting for arbitration doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot here. The only thing it definitely means is that ZAR is keeping his options open, something a lot of RFAs with the option do if they're not sorted at this point. We all know most of them don't reach there. 1 out of 25 last season. ZAR didn't reach it simply because Rutherford offered him an extra year, that's all it took. Maybe this ends badly for us, but there's a good chance not.

Also, while ZAR's career stats give him a Blueger comparable, his last season doesn't. I feel like the best comparable from last year is Brendan Lemieux - very similar paces (about a point and a half difference), both at about 1m... hopefully ZAR ends up no higher than 1.5m.

 

[Pens x]

I guess the one positive to it is there is no way Simon makes it out of WB

That’s funny

 

[The GM]

Surprised Colton schevior not signed yet

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

There were a few options. If we wanted to diversify the bottom 6 at the bargain bin, we could've upgraded in terms of skill with a guy like Kase, or size with a guy like Perry. Both have their inherent risks, but I'd take either risk rather than be content with Rodrigues' vanilla standard that somehow manages to get rocketed up the depth chart at the first sign of an injury on Sid's line.

Ultimately I just wanted us to either get players who addressed our lack of of size, skill, and physical play or go ultra-cheap. We didn't do either. We've developed a habit for going after the safest/most familiar depth and complementary forwards available, and that's why these players rarely make an impact for us one way or the other.

Yeah, we've become the team who goes to an ice cream parlor that serves 50 different exotic flavors and always seem to order vanilla. Maybe French vanilla if we're feeling extra risky.

 

[Night Shift]

That’s funny

Unless injuries of course

 

[Pens x]

I guess the question is how much is too much for ZAR? We have so many gee dee fourth/fifth liners, he isn’t necessary. But a dollar over $1.2 mil is too much.

 

[Pens x]

Unless injuries of course

There you go - injuries will happen.

 

[Ugene Magic]

He’s played 161 games

Over 4 seasons.

 

[Peat]

I don't disagree, but my stance for the 4th line has been that you go with cheapo talent on a revolving door basis unless you have something special like Cullen. A guy who can actually influence the game from the 4th line and is worth committing to. I get the BART impact, I do--trust me, it's been f***ing drilled into all of our minds repeatedly with heat maps and any number of acronym-based analytics. But when we end up spending a million or two more than we have to, all up and down the lineup (including the Matheson, Petts, Zucker problems, obv) it adds up and quickly.

Not a bad way to do it when you've got talent to come in. And I'm not 100% sure I love ZAR being back. But we had to keep Blueger because we dunno when Geno's back and he's promoted until then, we got rid of Tanev... so for the most part, that's what we're doing.

Shall we also bring up the fact @Dipsy Doodle was one of the main people complaining about us signing Jankowski instead of Wennberg less than a year ago?

Yet now suddenly we are supposed to go cheap?

A cautionary tale about the terrors of minimum wage if ever there was one. Of course, Rodrigues ended up working well, it sometimes does. But it's not ideal, is it?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Not a bad way to do it when you've got talent to come in. And I'm not 100% sure I love ZAR being back. But we had to keep Blueger because we dunno when Geno's back and he's promoted until then, we got rid of Tanev... so for the most part, that's what we're doing.



A cautionary tale about the terrors of minimum wage if ever there was one. Of course, Rodrigues ended up working well, it sometimes does. But it's not ideal, is it?

I think we can find 4th liners that work just fine for close to minimum, maybe a little chunk more. E-Rod, Gaudreau, Simon's a fine 4th liner, etc. Can't imagine it'd be hard to ice a competent (competent, not stellar, mind you) 4th line for ~$3 million in total.

We're just a team obsessed with familiarity, it seems. Even if the familiar harkens back to losing ways.

 

[Gurglesons]

Over 4 seasons.

Okay? He’s played the majority of available games the last two seasons, acting like his numbers are because of short samples is certainly interesting.

 

[Peat]

I think we can find 4th liners that work just fine for close to minimum, maybe a little chunk more. E-Rod, Gaudreau, Simon's a fine 4th liner, etc. Can't imagine it'd be hard to ice a competent (competent, not stellar, mind you) 4th line for ~$3 million in total.

We're just a team obsessed with familiarity, it seems. Even if the familiar harkens back to losing ways.

Well right now there's a good chance it's ZAR, ERod, Heinen for most of the year, so about 3.6m.

And I think Gurgs raises a good point about how a lot of good teams love familiarity. Look at Tampa, look at Chicago trying to get the band back together... cohesion matters as much as freshness.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Well right now there's a good chance it's ZAR, ERod, Heinen for most of the year, so about 3.6m.

And I think Gurgs raises a good point about how a lot of good teams love familiarity. Look at Tampa, look at Chicago trying to get the band back together... cohesion matters as much as freshness.

Sure, if bringing back familiar names moves the needle. Tampa should want to keep the majority of their players together.

I just don't think keeping 2/3 of BART together does anything beyond keep the coach comfortable, but with us keeping ZAR and Blueger around, and bringing back guys like E-Rod and Simon, maybe that's the goal.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sure, if bringing back familiar names moves the needle. Tampa should want to keep the majority of their players together.

I just don't think keeping 2/3 of BART together does anything beyond keep the coach comfortable, but with us keeping ZAR and Blueger around, and bringing back guys like E-Rod and Simon, maybe that's the goal.

Sustr wasn’t a part of the cup squads and Bogo is one year older and removed from the cup squad.

Sustr is getting the same exact type of talking points from Tampa’s GM as Simon’s yet people act like Simon is a lock.

Perry is old as hell, was already not a great skater and now has two extremely condensed playoff runs and they gave him two years.

Bellemare has fallen off as well from where he was at although it’s hard to get mad at any of these deals. That being said same thing goes for all our similar deals in Heinen, Simon, Rodrigues. They are low risk, easily buried contracts. Just like what Tampa did.