Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | Well, now what?

[Peat]

Yeah, and whatever futures you could land. Maybe it could work.

I'd add that in this scenario, I'd rather not sign Hagelin and see what roughly 4m winger I could land for Rust + futures + Simon/ZAR.

Also, I don't see having both Brassard and Kessel next season. It can be done, I just don't see it happening. Both makes us a little too old and a little too top heavy.

 

[EightyOne]

Also, I don't see having both Brassard and Kessel next season. It can be done, I just don't see it happening. Both makes us a little too old and a little too top heavy.

Brassard and Kessel are the two biggest problems that are f***ing up our forward lines right now. We can't build lines that cater to both of them.

At least Kessel does something out there though I'm still waiting for Brassard to be anything but shit.

 

[Peat]

Brassard and Kessel are the two biggest problems that are ****ing up our forward lines right now. We can't build lines that cater to both of them.

At least Kessel does something out there though I'm still waiting for Brassard to be anything but ****.

Oh man, I've loved Brassard's game out there. Its not translating into production yet but he's been really solid both ways and he's been generating a lot of quality looks. Just needs someone to connect with them. Brassard and Kessel looks like a really obvious combo to me on this team actually, Brassard has the defensive game to cover for Kessel *and* the skill to spring him. That's a third pairing you could give a lot of ice time to.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Brassard and Kessel are the two biggest problems that are ****ing up our forward lines right now. We can't build lines that cater to both of them.

At least Kessel does something out there though I'm still waiting for Brassard to be anything but ****.

Kessel throwing a tantrum if he's not with Geno is f***ing our lines. Brassard's been fine as the 3C, and would be great with Rust and Sprong.

We need a RW for Sid's line. Phil's on his way out, and I hope JR gets ahead of that problem. Maatta's gotta go as well. JR has to have his hand in the Duchene and Saad sweepstakes. Either one would be unreal on this team, and they'd bring an element of fresh legs and hunger to this team we're sorely missing. This team has a great mix of talent but nobody wants to work anymore. Bring in guys who are hungry, absolutely rabid and starving for a Cup.

 

[EightyOne]

Oh man, I've loved Brassard's game out there. Its not translating into production yet but he's been really solid both ways and he's been generating a lot of quality looks. Just needs someone to connect with them. Brassard and Kessel looks like a really obvious combo to me on this team actually, Brassard has the defensive game to cover for Kessel *and* the skill to spring him. That's a third pairing you could give a lot of ice time to.

Right. But, remember, Brassard AND Kessel do not want to be third line.

You can only put them with Geno. They can't go with Sid because Kessel can't go with Sid.

It's literally why the special handling required by these two is really annoying.

Coupled with a staff who refuses to make better lines or tell these prima donnas to es-tee-ef-uu and play.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Basically just boils down to whether or not we A. have the assets and B. want the players bad enough when it comes to Duchene and/or Saad.

Duchene propels Sid's line through the stratosphere along with Jake. Saad would be absolutely lights out with Geno and Sprong, Rust, Hornqvist, etc.

Do I think we need a forward more than a blueliner? Nah, not really. But there's no blueliner available in the Duchene or Saad caliber of player, I don't think any one blueliner fixes our issues, and I think you have to put Sid and/or Geno in the best position to succeed moving forward, that's our best bet. We're not fixing our defensive woes with a move or two. We're going to have to work hard at righting that ship, but there are two very attractive wingers who fit our needs perfectly, and they're likely available for far cheaper than they'd normally be.

I think our best bet, as far as this season goes, is to grab one or both of them if we can swing it and go for broke as far as being an offensive juggernaut goes, while hoping and praying the goalie in net can play at an NHL level and doesn't lose us games.

 

[Peat]

Right. But, remember, Brassard AND Kessel do not want to be third line.

You can only put them with Geno. They can't go with Sid because Kessel can't go with Sid.

It's literally why the special handling required by these two is really annoying.

Coupled with a staff who refuses to make better lines or tell these prima donnas to es-tee-ef-uu and play.

Lets not over exaggerate how much their wants matter. Yes, Sully's going to pay at least some attention to them because their engagement matters, but if they can't repay the faith they'll get shuffled. If Sid racked up 330 minutes with Horny last season, you can be sure that catering to the stars' demands is a concept with a limited leash. The leash mightn't be as short as we'd like but it will get used.

I think Brassard's got a couple of games to make the 1st line a power house (if that) before he goes back to the 3rd. Geno-Kessel has a longer leash because dat production (and, in fairness, they're now above 50% in most possession categories).

Basically just boils down to whether or not we A. have the assets and B. want the players bad enough when it comes to Duchene and/or Saad.

Duchene propels Sid's line through the stratosphere along with Jake. Saad would be absolutely lights out with Geno and Sprong, Rust, Hornqvist, etc.

Do I think we need a forward more than a blueliner? Nah, not really. But there's no blueliner available in the Duchene or Saad caliber of player, I don't think any one blueliner fixes our issues, and I think you have to put Sid and/or Geno in the best position to succeed moving forward, that's our best bet. We're not fixing our defensive woes with a move or two. We're going to have to work hard at righting that ship, but there are two very attractive wingers who fit our needs perfectly, and they're likely available for far cheaper than they'd normally be.

I think our best bet, as far as this season goes, is to grab one or both of them if we can swing it and go for broke as far as being an offensive juggernaut goes, while hoping and praying the goalie in net can play at an NHL level and doesn't lose us games.

Beefing up the forecheck and neutral zone disruption is the single best move I think you can make for the defence anyway. Which is why I'm maybe more interested in Niederreiter than I am either Duchene or Saad.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Lets not over exaggerate how much their wants matter. Yes, Sully's going to pay at least some attention to them because their engagement matters, but if they can't repay the faith they'll get shuffled. If Sid racked up 330 minutes with Horny last season, you can be sure that catering to the stars' demands is a concept with a limited leash. The leash mightn't be as short as we'd like but it will get used.

I think Brassard's got a couple of games to make the 1st line a power house (if that) before he goes back to the 3rd. Geno-Kessel has a longer leash because dat production (and, in fairness, they're now above 50% in most possession categories).



Beefing up the forecheck and neutral zone disruption is the single best move I think you can make for the defence anyway. Which is why I'm maybe more interested in Niederreiter than I am either Duchene or Saad.

I think both of those guys are great for that too. Any one of the three, really, but I think Duchene and Saad come way cheaper than Nino.

 

[Peat]

I think both of those guys are great for that too. Any one of the three, really, but I think Duchene and Saad come way cheaper than Nino.

Cheaper cap hit on Nino though. Plus - crucially - he has the coolest name.

But yeah, any of the three would be nice.

Noticed LA fans talking about trading Pearson as a shake up in the trade forum too. Doubt that amounts to much but he'd be interesting too.

 

[NMK11]

Hey guys, I don't know if anyones brought this up before, but maybe we should move Malkin to Brassard's wing? We could come up with a catchy name, maybe ̶S̶t̶a̶a̶l̶k̶i̶n̶ Brasskin?

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

When?
In 2006 he signed a 4 yr deal as a 30 yr old. @2.875m
In 2010 he signed a 3 yr deal as a 34 yr old. @3.5m
In 2013 he signed a 2 yr deal as a 37 yr old. @3.5m

Since then, he's been on 1 yr deals.

With the Pens he's been on 1/2 yr deals
And this is Matt Cullen, someone who is obviously a freak of nature and again I qualified that by saying aging role players in your top 6 should be avoided (you ignored that)
Did he play top line minutes before coming to the Pens? Did he play top line mins while WITH the Pens?

You can sign older players to fill bottom 6 roles, but don't give them term. Cullen is the exception to the rule, but as we've seen so far this season, Father Time will beat him

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'd add that in this scenario, I'd rather not sign Hagelin and see what roughly 4m winger I could land for Rust + futures + Simon/ZAR.

Also, I don't see having both Brassard and Kessel next season. It can be done, I just don't see it happening. Both makes us a little too old and a little too top heavy.

I can get down with that.

As for not re-signing Brassard, if we don't, the alternative better be a lot better than Sheahan.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Oh man, I've loved Brassard's game out there. Its not translating into production yet but he's been really solid both ways and he's been generating a lot of quality looks. Just needs someone to connect with them. Brassard and Kessel looks like a really obvious combo to me on this team actually, Brassard has the defensive game to cover for Kessel *and* the skill to spring him. That's a third pairing you could give a lot of ice time to.

It's what we originally got him for. It's where they both make the most sense.

Too bad the coach seems to want to try everything other possible combo first.

 

[Peat]

It's what we originally got him for. It's where they both make the most sense.

Too bad the coach seems to want to try everything other possible combo first.

Gotta say, that while mostly understanding the circs that's led Sully to try this and being happy to see it tried, I'm still quite puzzled by the way the org's gone from "We want this" to "We can live without this" so quickly. It feels like they've miscalculated somewhere.

And, while I'm a big fan of Sheahan and would (depending on the rest of the roster) be happy to start next season with him at 3C, he's not in the same league for driving play as Brassard. Which isn't so much an issue when given really good wingers, but surely when the 3C is going to be the most skillful player on the line, it should be Brassard?

 

[Shady Machine]

Brassard and Kessel are the two biggest problems that are ****ing up our forward lines right now. We can't build lines that cater to both of them.

At least Kessel does something out there though I'm still waiting for Brassard to be anything but ****.

This is insanity. Kessel has 8 points in 5 games and is responsible for at least 3 of the team's 6 points. We need to stop obsessing about how lines "look" and focus on results. Kessel brings results.

 

[EightyOne]

This is insanity. Kessel has 8 points in 5 games and is responsible for at least 3 of the team's 6 points. We need to stop obsessing about how lines "look" and focus on results. Kessel brings results.

But it's not insanity, it handcuffs the first and third line to make the second sorta work.

The bigger problem is Brassard not going third line. Kessel on second isn't AS egregious.

 

[mpp9]

I'm fine with Sid starting slow. I'm sure the stars remember how exhausted they were against Washington and yet how close they were to possibly threepeating. They're gonna conserve energy.

What I will say is that Sid needs to become a bit easier to play with for the rest of his career. He's not the offensive force he once was where you just let him do his thing. We have a ton of talent on thjs team. Make it work with what you got. Malkin's been doing it with Kessel. Hell, Malkin has played his best hockey with the guy Sid loathes (PH).

Sully 's postgame last night was awesome and highlighted some of this. Pretty much challenged Sid to hold onto the puck more and play below the goal line. If you have to dump the puck in more and go get it, so be it. You're Crosby, you'll win more of those battles than lose.

 

[66-30-33]

For sure. Fresh bodies, and hungry bodies. These guys play like they expect wins to just happen. I want JR to go after guys without their name on the Cup. Duchene would be fantastic with Jake-Sid and someone's gonna get him for pennies on the dollar because of the firesale in Ottawa. Saad might be a "change of scenery" candidate in Chicago and we all know how that worked last time we made one of those deals with the Hawks. Nevermind that Saad fits perfectly.

Jake-Sid-Duchene would be an interesting looking line. Then you let Brass go and keep Duchene as your 3C and sometimes 1RW and if we keep Sheahan around he takes over 3C when Duchene is 1RW. Would mean no Kessel, he would go for a Dman probably.

 

[Peat]

I'd like to point out that the bottom 6 not working isn't solely on personnel. Rust-Sheahan-Hornqvist might be a weird looking line, but Rust and Horny have good histories of being positive possession players and its not that different from Hags-Horny. Sheahan isn't the seventh wonder of the earth, but he's a good defensive centre. That line shouldn't get their lunch money taken by Montreal. Cullen-Sheahan-Sprong shouldn't have conceded as many shots as they did at the beginning of the season. I don't think there's a guy on those lines who doesn't have at least an extra 10% of performance and that would make a difference. Not as much as making better lines, but still noticeable.

 

[Pancakes]

I'm just incredibly disappointed in this start. These guys had plenty of rest this off season. We have a stacked lineup on paper. And what do we get in games? We get a situation where I don't think we've out possessed even one team yet. Watching Montreal and a Pettersson-less Vancouver stymie us so throughly is embarrassing.

This is the worst stretch of hockey I can remember the Pens playing since Sullivan took over. I'm sure statistically we've had worse stretches under him than this, but I don't remember the hockey ever being this bad.

Sullivan is not going anywhere and neither is most of this team. So it's up to them to figure it out.

 

[Shady Machine]

But it's not insanity, it handcuffs the first and third line to make the second sorta work.

The bigger problem is Brassard not going third line. Kessel on second isn't AS egregious.

There is plenty of talent to make 4 lines work with Malkin-Kessel on line 2. The coach just doesn't seem willing to try the ones I think are best:

Jake-Sid-Sprong
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
Simon-Brass-Hornqvist
Cullen-Sheahan-Rust

You could try that while moving Rust, Horny, and Sprong throughout the game based on matchups and situations.

 

[EightyOne]

There is plenty of talent to make 4 lines work with Malkin-Kessel on line 2. The coach just doesn't seem willing to try the ones I think are best:

Jake-Sid-Sprong
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
Simon-Brass-Hornqvist
Cullen-Sheahan-Rust

You could try that while moving Rust, Horny, and Sprong throughout the game based on matchups and situations.

Listen here, brotha! I love Kessel.

BUT it's ridiculous he whined his way to line 2.


I love him. Pens need him.

It's also very ridiculous Brass is being catered to.

That's all I'm saying. The lines you have are fine. Biggest thing is Brass knocked back down where he FITS and solves a need on the team.

That's all I'm trying to say. Kessel is excelling so I can deal with his line two argument. I currently don't think Brass deserves or has earned bumping our best LW player and abandoning his role as 3C.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

So much depth on this team and it's not being used correctly at all.

Guentzel, Crosby, Rust
Hagelin, Malkin, Sprong
Grant, Brassard, Kessel
Cullen, Sheahan, Hornqvist

Sit Simon for a game or two.

I'd add that in this scenario, I'd rather not sign Hagelin and see what roughly 4m winger I could land for Rust + futures + Simon/ZAR.

Also, I don't see having both Brassard and Kessel next season. It can be done, I just don't see it happening. Both makes us a little too old and a little too top heavy.

Whoa whoa WHOA...let's not get hasty here bud. Trade Rust? Get that filthy thought out of your mind, hands and mouth.

Hagelin, unless he wants to come back at half his cap hit, not worth bringing back. Simon, I am on the fence about and have been since last year, he doesn't bring anything consistently enough for me to want to keep him if we can move him in a package.

Brassard, did anyone seriously think he was going to be back? He's going to go somewhere he can be a #2 C again, we only have him until his contract runs out.

Kessel, if the team wanted to see what they have in Sprong, they're doing a piss poor job of finding out. They're using him on a 4th line when he should be in the top 6 where they can use that shot of his. You can't move Kessel until the team figures that out and it seems like the team is hell bent on never figuring that out.

 

[Riptide]

With the Pens he's been on 1/2 yr deals

You can sign older players to fill bottom 6 roles, but don't give them term. Cullen is the exception to the rule, but as we've seen so far this season, Father Time will beat him

Of course he was... because he was 39 freaking year's old. No one was going to give him a 2+ year contract. But Hagelin isn't an "older player" and would only be 31 - not 39. That's a very very big difference.

 

[Riptide]

I can get down with that.

As for not re-signing Brassard, if we don't, the alternative better be a lot better than Sheahan.

You had better start preparing now to be extremely disappointed come July then... because odds are you will not find a better 3C then Sheahan.

Edit.
It's not that there's not a bunch out there - there are. But you either need to try and trade for them, or you have to convince them that they should come here and be stuck behind Crosby and Malkin (when healthy). It's going to take a certain kind of player to be willing to take that role. Or you need to pay someone through the nose for it and hope that they won't be unhappy down the road.