Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Countdown to October (Cap Details + Links in First Post)

[Jules Winnfield]

I really want nothing to do with Max Pax on the Pens. He was really shitty last year. The only thing that might be of interest is he’s on the last year of a prove it deal in what may be is last major long term contract.

I’m just not a big fan of him. He’s a ghost when it counts.

I’d take Skinner 10/10 if that was the choice. At least when Skinner isn’t scoring his feet and legs are always driving play and causing issues for the other team to defend against.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

As someone that watched the Kings in person throughout 2012. I would love to have Voynov here as a player. Dude is absolutely a stud when it comes to that side of the game.

After seeing the pictures that leaked after that situation, I don’t know how you root for that person regardless.

Knowing the NHL someone would petition him for the Masterton if he had a good season.

Well I'm not "rooting" for him, but I am open to the possibility that he's worked to change himself. He still has to show it.

I'm not saying a definite no and I don't know his wife so shouldn't speculate, but I'll just say there are plenty of examples of women staying with abusive husbands despite the abuse continuing. Again, I have no idea if that's the case here and won't speculate one way or the other.

For sure. I know too well. It'd be good to hear her side.

I think the prudent thing to do is suspend judgement pending more info. If he's not interested in being open about the situation and putting in work to address it, or if there's even a sniff that any of that type of behaviour has continued, he's a non-starter.

 

[Gurglesons]

I really want nothing to do with Max Pax on the Pens. He was really ****ty last year. The only thing that might be of interest is he’s on the last year of a prove it deal in what may be is last major long term contract.

I’m just not a big fan of him. He’s a ghost when it counts.

I’d take Skinner 10/10 if that was the choice. At least when Skinner isn’t scoring his feet and legs are always driving play and causing issues for the other team to defend against.

It Patches is a rental, I’d take him. I don’t see that happening, but he definitely isn’t someone I’d lock in long term.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

I really want nothing to do with Max Pax on the Pens. He was really ****ty last year. The only thing that might be of interest is he’s on the last year of a prove it deal in what may be is last major long term contract.

I’m just not a big fan of him. He’s a ghost when it counts.

I’d take Skinner 10/10 if that was the choice. At least when Skinner isn’t scoring his feet and legs are always driving play and causing issues for the other team to defend against.

Did you ever think that the team he has been on "when it counts" is the Montreal Canadians and theyve been a shit show carried by him, Price and Subban/Weber.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

I really want nothing to do with Max Pax on the Pens. He was really ****ty last year. The only thing that might be of interest is he’s on the last year of a prove it deal in what may be is last major long term contract.

I’m just not a big fan of him. He’s a ghost when it counts.

I’d take Skinner 10/10 if that was the choice. At least when Skinner isn’t scoring his feet and legs are always driving play and causing issues for the other team to defend against.

Agree 100%. Hags and him are both UFA at the end of the season. You can't replace Hags straight away speed, but I think Skinner is the better, more complete skater. You'd obviously downgrade yourself on the defensive and PK side, but improve offensively (which isn't a big need, but I'd love to see him next to Malkin). And he is only 26.Obviously you'd have to add more parts to the trade. I'm thinking something like Hags, Jarry, and a 2nd.

 

[Peat]

Last season he was. They could ice a good PP without him but he puts it over the top and they don’t have anyone to truly replace that.

The PP ran into real difficulties with Hornqvist injured and as such, I'm dubious about him being the guy putting it over the top. Or at least, the only guy.

He was the force behind HBK. They had crazy chemistry but Kessel was the engine behind it. He was also the engine on whatever line he was on for the first half or so of last season. If he doesn’t like carrying a 3rd line to the point he won’t, well, they’ve got bigger problems and I don’t see Pacioretty as the answer to that.

I'd love to rewatch HBK and see what who was really driving it.

But, in any case, if he was driving it he couldn't keep driving it. There's a limit to how much he can drive a 3rd line.

First half of last season - drove a pace of 2.34 g/60 for the team with Geno at 5v5 and 2.21 when not with Geno. I'll give you that's better than the team average of 1.7 for the first half, but it's still not magical. Its below the team season average of 2.43. Successfully driving a line is... sporadic, I guess.

Would Patches fix that? No. But if Kessel's not on the 3rd line, who's gonna be better next to Geno.

Yeah, and I’d still take Kessel’s overall impact and playoff history.

Ditto, but I'm not counting out the prospect that Patches could make a bigger impact.

And if Kessel could get Patches +, I'd seriously consider it.




Okay. On Kessel, in response to everything -

He's been really good for us. That's obvious. But I think the fit issues at ES are also obvious when you look at it. And I'd have thought they'd be even more obvious to the people insistent that he's one of the top 10/20 attacking talents in the game when he can't be one of the top 10/20 ES producers in the league despite spending a bunch of time with Malkin.

Does that mean move the hell on? It would need to be a good trade. But the fit issue imo does mean we could be a better team.

And there is a chance that any guy coming in could find that chemistry with Sid/Geno that Kessel hasn't got - not a probability, but a chance - and if they did, the effect on the team would be tremendous.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Did you ever think that the team he has been on "when it counts" is the Montreal Canadians and theyve been a **** show carried by him, Price and Subban/Weber.

I mean, he only got 1 assist in 6 games in his last playoff appearance, and wasn't exactly a playoff juggernaut even relative to teammates before that.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

I mean, he only got 1 assist in 6 games in his last playoff appearance, and wasn't exactly a playoff juggernaut even relative to teammates before that.

On the flip side, Skinner has scored in every playoff game he's been in.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Did you ever think that the team he has been on "when it counts" is the Montreal Canadians and theyve been a **** show carried by him, Price and Subban/Weber.

That is BS. He’s played on some good teams with good forwards. What’s the issue with Subban? He’s awesome. He played with Markov and Subban who were both great.

He consistently never showed up in the playoffs.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

I'm against trading Kessel. He is the epitome of the every man.
Balding = check
Dad bod = check
Hot dogs = check

Minus the whole skating fast as f... And having a rocket of a shot.

Few things in the regular season have given me as much joy as watching Phil in 3 on 3 OT repeatedly circle back to the NZ and attack with speed. Very amusing.

 

[Peat]

That is BS. He’s played on some good teams with good forwards. What’s the issue with Subban? He’s awesome. He played with Markov and Subban who were both great.

He consistently never showed up in the playoffs.

Him saying carried by Subban probably means Subban isn't an issue.

And... good team with good forwards doesn't cut it in the play-offs, when everyone has that and the best teams are great with great. And centres, which Montreal have been weak in since forever...

Montreal's last two visits to the play-offs before last season, Patches was Montreal's top scoring forward once and tied 2nd once. If he didn't show up, those good forwards showed up even less.

 

[Turin]

Dream still alive? Still alive

 

[chethejet]

Don't want Skinner since Pens have enough defensive issues as is. I don't want a rental that costs picks or roster players. Roster has 4 forwards making over 5 million so not much room here. Pens are in very good shape as is. But GMJR has to open to anything that improves the team.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Don't want Skinner since Pens have enough defensive issues as is. I don't want a rental that costs picks or roster players. Roster has 4 forwards making over 5 million so not much room here. Pens are in very good shape as is. But GMJR has to open to anything that improves the team.

We’d have to make some significant cap space for most LW’s and the cost to acquire probably not cheap so at this stage of the year I imagine the trade would have to come with an extension.

 

[Rusty Razor]

Looking at Skinner's production, a lot of his scoring comes from 5v5. Thats huge for us because absent moving Kessel, no top 6 winger we acquire will see first unit power play minutes.

 

[Coach Travis]

Looking at Skinner's production, a lot of his scoring comes from 5v5. Thats huge for us because absent moving Kessel, no top 6 winger we acquire will see first unit power play minutes.

Both Skinner and Pacioretty are at around 25% of their points being from the powerplay.

 

[Turin]

Pacioretty turns 30 this year and is going to want compensation for being underpaid his whole career. Skinner being 26 is the biggest deal for me if I am actually choosing between them, even if Pacioretty has been better.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Looking at Skinner's production, a lot of his scoring comes from 5v5. Thats huge for us because absent moving Kessel, no top 6 winger we acquire will see first unit power play minutes.

Just two problems with that...

1. He is a UFA after this next season.
2. The Pens don't have the cap space to retain him after that.

So why would you give up the assets for a rental, essentially, even if you win a cup, you're giving up assets you need to make sure that's not just a one off win with Skinner and then losing the following year. Skinner is a nice dream, but unless you're giving up a bigger salary, I am not interested, I guess it means losing Hagelin and possibly Maatta for someone like Skinner and TVR, which is 8m in savings, but you add 8 back.

Like if Carolina were to retain on even TVR for 50% and the Pens add a 1st, I'd think about it, but even that is just like a 1.15m savings at best. Goes a long way at the deadline, but to retain guys like Jake, even Skinner after the fact, it helps.

 

[Gurglesons]

Just two problems with that...

1. He is a UFA after this next season.
2. The Pens don't have the cap space to retain him after that.

So why would you give up the assets for a rental, essentially, even if you win a cup, you're giving up assets you need to make sure that's not just a one off win with Skinner and then losing the following year. Skinner is a nice dream, but unless you're giving up a bigger salary, I am not interested, I guess it means losing Hagelin and possibly Maatta for someone like Skinner and TVR, which is 8m in savings, but you add 8 back.

Like if Carolina were to retain on even TVR for 50% and the Pens add a 1st, I'd think about it, but even that is just like a 1.15m savings at best. Goes a long way at the deadline, but to retain guys like Jake, even Skinner after the fact, it helps.

We could afford Skinner easily. Let Brassard and Hags walk and you have 7 mil next year. Let Schultz walk and you have another 5.5 the year after.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We could afford Skinner easily. Let Brassard and Hags walk and you have 7 mil next year. Let Schultz walk and you have another 5.5 the year after.

Letting Hags and Brass walk, fine.
Letting Schultz walk, a bigger hole to fill because we better hope Cough Drop and Almari, at least one of them, is ready by then.

 

[Andy99]

Just two problems with that...

1. He is a UFA after this next season.
2. The Pens don't have the cap space to retain him after that.

So why would you give up the assets for a rental, essentially, even if you win a cup, you're giving up assets you need to make sure that's not just a one off win with Skinner and then losing the following year. Skinner is a nice dream, but unless you're giving up a bigger salary, I am not interested, I guess it means losing Hagelin and possibly Maatta for someone like Skinner and TVR, which is 8m in savings, but you add 8 back.

Like if Carolina were to retain on even TVR for 50% and the Pens add a 1st, I'd think about it, but even that is just like a 1.15m savings at best. Goes a long way at the deadline, but to retain guys like Jake, even Skinner after the fact, it helps.

We could sign longterm or take Skinner as a rental if he stays around the $6 mil mark...if CAR would accept Hags and a draft pick for example, and we send ZAR down to WBS, we’ve covered all but $1 mil of Skinner’s salary...we have enough of a buffer to do that...after that, we’d be losing Brass but we’d likely have to trade another player who makes $3mil + to keep him...the logical person is Kessel and we could get a couple young players back who are not as good but good enough to try to make up the difference...I don’t think that’s a bad strategy...it only works though if either Kessel is willing to go to CAR, or CAR would take Hags...
of course it may not be a good idea to trade Hags and after Phil for Skinner, but it’s financially feasible to sign him if we want...

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We could sign longterm or take Skinner as a rental if he stays around the $6 mil mark...if CAR would accept Hags and a draft pick for example, and we send ZAR down to WBS, we’ve covered all but $1 mil of Skinner’s salary...we have enough of a buffer to do that...after that, we’d be losing Brass but we’d likely have to trade another player who makes $3mil + to keep him...the logical person is Kessel and we could get a couple young players back who are not as good but good enough to try to make up the difference...I don’t think that’s a bad strategy...it only works though if either Kessel is willing to go to CAR, or CAR would take Hags...
of course it may not be a good idea to trade Hags and after Phil for Skinner, but it’s financially feasible to sign him if we want...

I think if that is the play, if it's Hagelin that the team is planning to move to get Skinner, you are adding a 1st to make sure Carolina retains to make the cap swap a wash at best. Maybe throw in a meh prospect to sweeten it a little to retain a little more for the year (as it would only be a year of retention) to make it easier to sign Oleksiak and Jarry still.

It would suck to lose Hagelin, a solid 2-way winger, we need that on this roster too.

 

[Riptide]

In a hypothetical world where you can swap players in and out, that may make sense. But the transactional costs of trying to get rid of Phil, then acquire Patches will result in a lesser end product. We're not getting good value sending Phil out, and Montreal is going to ask for a lot to get Patches. Much better for us to just balance Phil with a LW who can pick up the slack, especially when we have the perfect one in Hagelin.

The fact that Patches needs a new deal tips the balance even further in this direction.

I don't disagree - I'm just saying that in an ideal world, that is what I'd be aiming for. Lots of Hossa like players who are good offensively, while being good/great defensively.

 

[Tom Hanks]

We could afford Skinner easily. Let Brassard and Hags walk and you have 7 mil next year. Let Schultz walk and you have another 5.5 the year after.

You still need players to fill those roles. If you do it in UFA it’ll be just as expensive. If we do it in trade we would still leave holes and to stay under the cap the depth probably gets affected.

Needs to be a bigger deal although JR might just put together our best shot for this year then worry about it next summer. If he wasn’t a good GM I’d be concerned but he knows what he’s doing.

 

[Pancakes]

There's no way in hell Carolina is taking Hagelin plus a pick for Skinner.