Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Countdown to October (Cap Details + Links in First Post)

[Gurglesons]

I appreciate your professional opinion, but there are a lot of professional standards I don't agree with. They often paint with very broad strokes to avoid culpability at all costs, and I think people should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis whenever possible. The problem is that requires more work and vetting for the employer to ensure their faith isn't misplaced.

But the field we're discussing is athletics, and the employers involved have all the resources in the world to put into finding out whether a specific person is worth the risk.

I mean, let’s be brutally honest. Most NHL owners and GMs care little about these people and the end goal is making money.

If Voynov helps them do that, they could honestly care less. This is a situation where the league should say something, but likely
will not.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

But it wasn't the first time. When she was asked if this was the only time, she said it wasn't the first and that he becomes a monster when he drinks.

I don't think this team will acquire Voynov. I don't think they have necessary cap space. But do you have a link for this?

All I've seen are multiple versions of this account: Kings' Slava Voynov charged with felony in wife abuse case

It certainly paints him in a bad light. I certainly don't respect him. But it's a far cry from the "attempted murder" someone mentioned a few pages back.

And it would only be a PR nightmare until after the first game of the season. He gets a couple of Power Play assists, and magically, people's memories run short. If domestic abuse and other legal run-ins ended careers of professional athletes, a very high percentage of NFL players wouldn't be playing. Despite there being multiple Voynovs on every NFL team, all 32 organizations find 80k people to fill their stands every Sunday... unless they're losing. (Which happens to be the more interesting thought experiment...)

 

[Ogrezilla]

His most productive season with 40 PP points.

He was still 31st in the league at even strength scoring, 5th for RW's. It was his 3rd best season at ES for his career.

I think why people feel Malkin and Kessel are a bad fit has been covered.

It's been covered, but I still don't really agree with it.

He won’t play with Sid,

This is fair. I don't really get it, but it's clearly true.

and there is only so long you can afford 6.8 on your third line before it starts effecting the cap structure of your team.

And this is an actual reason to trade him, but it's nothing to do with his actual fit as a hoceky player on the team. That's my point.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Except the charges were dismissed. The only charge he plead guilty to was disorderly conduct, a misdemeanor.

And yeah... that's the other thing... when gauging these types of situations, one has to be careful about assigning levels of depravity. Because it's ALL shitty, disgusting behavior.

But what Voynov did was much worse.

 

[Pens1566]

Except the charges were dismissed. The only charge he plead guilty to was disorderly conduct, a misdemeanor.

Yeah, my understanding was that the school investigation cleared him of the "serious" charges. He was only dismissed as the initial reaction.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's not that I'm opposed to theoretically moving Kessel. It's just that it has to be a lateral move, at worst.

I don't care how anyone tries to frame it... moving Kessel and subbing Patches makes this team worse. A downgrade.

My argument against Kessel aligns with this view point. I would not move Kessel for Patches. Kessel out and Skinner in is a different story.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

I don't think this team will acquire Voynov. I don't think they have necessary cap space. But do you have a link for this?

All I've seen are multiple versions of this account: Kings' Slava Voynov charged with felony in wife abuse case

It certainly paints him in a bad light. I certainly don't respect him. But it's a far cry from the "attempted murder" someone mentioned a few pages back.

And it would only be a PR night until after the first game of the season. He gets a couple of Power Play assists, and magically, people's memories run short. If domestic abuse and other legal run-ins ended careers of professional athletes, a very high percentage of NFL players wouldn't be playing. Despite there being multiple Voynovs on every NFL team, all 32 organizations find 80k people to fill their stands every Sunday... unless they're losing. (Which happens to be the more interesting thought experiment...)

Ex-Kings player Slava Voynov spent two months in jail for domestic abuse, but is at Olympics representing Russia

"According to the victim, she is scared of the defendant and he is very aggressive when he drinks," Voynov's probation report said. "She admitted this was not the first time the defendant has struck her."

 

[Ogrezilla]

It's not that I'm opposed to theoretically moving Kessel. It's just that it has to be a lateral move, at worst.

I don't care how anyone tries to frame it... moving Kessel and subbing Patches makes this team worse. A downgrade.

agreed. We have to be getting better elsewhere for it to work.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

My argument against Kessel aligns with this view point. I would not move Kessel for Patches. Kessel out and Skinner in is a different story.

Well... that IS a little different. I still regard Kessel as the better player there but Skinner is a much more desirable get for a multitude of reasons.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

And yeah... that's the other thing... when gauging these types of situations, one has to be careful about assigning levels of depravity. Because it's ALL ****ty, disgusting behavior.

But what Voynov did was much worse.

Honestly I bet majority of people on this board could have been charged with disorderly conduct sometime in their lives.

(f) Who is found in any public place under the influence of intoxicating liquor, any drug, controlled substance, toluene, or any combination of any intoxicating liquor, drug, controlled substance, or toluene, in a condition that they are unable to exercise care for their own safety or the safety of others, or by reason of their being under the influence of intoxicating liquor, any drug, controlled substance, toluene, or any combination of any intoxicating liquor, drug, or toluene, interferes with or obstructs or prevents the free use of any street, sidewalk, or other public way.

 

[Gurglesons]

Well... that IS a little different. I still regard Kessel as the better player there but Skinner is a much more desirable get for a multitude of reasons.

Even if moving Kessel brings us a downgrade on LW, but allows us to bringing in a long term top four D, I’d be open to it.

Kessel is not Hossa. He is not going to age gracefully and likely if effective offensively the holes in his game will be magnified as he ages.

 

[Riptide]

I'd rather move Phil than Brassard. I know that's a hot take, but I'd rather have us secure the center depth and move a valuable winger in Kessel for a younger, slightly less productive version.

I'm not sure I'd go that far, but I can see your reasoning behind it. If we move Brassard, even if we accept that Sheahan can be an effective 3C, we still need another quality center coming back - unless we're good with the idea of a 41 yr old Cullen being our 4C.

Plus even if we think we really need a LW... we can always move Brassard there, and use Sheahan and Cullen as 3/4Cs. Then even if we have injuries, we probably do not need to use Cullen as a 3C at any time.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I mean, let’s be brutally honest. Most NHL owners and GMs care little about these people and the end goal is making money.

If Voynov helps them do that, they could honestly care less. This is a situation where the league should say something, but likely
will not.

The league and teams do care about public relations though. If a Voynov reinstatement and signing does happen, I think he has to be held to a very strict standard for it to work for anyone. He's not somebody you can just sign and sweep his past under the rug hoping nobody will notice and crossing your fingers it won't happen again. A press conference with he and his wife would be a good start.

It needs to be out in the open and he needs to know there's a spotlight on him for it. The potential for it to blow up in people's face is too great.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Ah yes. I've been known to take copious amounts of toluene to the head and obstruct the use of sidewalks.

Heh... but really... I'm not talking about the drunken disorderly part. I'm talking about the beating on your girl when you are in that state of mind part.

 

[Gurglesons]

Honestly I bet majority of people on this board could have been charged with disorderly conduct sometime in their lives.

(f) Who is found in any public place under the influence of intoxicating liquor, any drug, controlled substance, toluene, or any combination of any intoxicating liquor, drug, controlled substance, or toluene, in a condition that they are unable to exercise care for their own safety or the safety of others, or by reason of their being under the influence of intoxicating liquor, any drug, controlled substance, toluene, or any combination of any intoxicating liquor, drug, or toluene, interferes with or obstructs or prevents the free use of any street, sidewalk, or other public way.

Desmith, a Rochester native, signed a diversion agreement at the Dover District Court on Thursday, and admitted to assaulting a woman in Durham Aug. 31.

Don’t know what you’re getting at, but Desmith was charged.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

FWIW, I don't think the Pens would dip a toe in the Voynov public relations nightmare anyway.

Idk, (not getting political) but with their whitehouse visit storm I think it was pretty clear their PR view (and sports in general) is at least partially in its own little bubble.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Honestly I bet majority of people on this board could have been charged with disorderly conduct sometime in their lives.

(f) Who is found in any public place under the influence of intoxicating liquor, any drug, controlled substance, toluene, or any combination of any intoxicating liquor, drug, controlled substance, or toluene, in a condition that they are unable to exercise care for their own safety or the safety of others, or by reason of their being under the influence of intoxicating liquor, any drug, controlled substance, toluene, or any combination of any intoxicating liquor, drug, or toluene, interferes with or obstructs or prevents the free use of any street, sidewalk, or other public way.

Thank you for pulling a quote that mentions toluene four times, and hyperlinks it upon first iteration.

I'm trying to now reverse-engineer a persona of who you must think posts on this board.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Even if moving Kessel brings us a downgrade on LW, but allows us to bringing in a long term top four D, I’d be open to it.

Kessel is not Hossa. He is not going to age gracefully and likely if effective offensively the holes in his game will be magnified as he ages.

I can agree with that.

But I suppose it depends on what this team's definition of "top 4 D" is. If it's what we just saw a few days ago... big ol' "pass" from me.

In my humble opinion, this team DOES badly need an upgrade on LW, too.

 

[Riptide]

Kessel is fantastic, but I don't think people quite understand how good Pacioretty is or would be on this team either. I really don't think it'd be that much of a drop off, if at all. And Pacioretty brings a far more complete game than Phil does--without all the temper tantrums on the bench or barking back and forth with Sully. Patches is probably a 75pt guy here, pretty easily with PP time, and I think that's a lot closer to Phil's production than his outlier of a season this past campaign.

Again, I'm not trying to run Phil out of town but you're being willfully ignorant if you don't think he has numerous warts and the clock is ticking on his expiration date. /shrug

I just don't want it to get to a point where he's untradeable because the wheels have fallen off or because the situation with Sully has bottomed out and he needs to be moved.

While I agree with you on Patches, and am even entirely willing to overlook his POs... the fact that he likely costs 7.5-8m long term is rough when Kessel is locked up to a 6.8m deal. In a cap world that's pretty friendly.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

Don’t know what you’re getting at, but Desmith was charged.

On December 4, DeSmith pleaded not guilty to every charge with the exception of disorderly conduct, which falls below the level of misdemeanor, the paper said. He also signed a diversion agreement, which lead to all charges being dismissed.

The school was even going to reinstate him.

During the hearing, DeSmith presented two detailed statements that included evidence which called into question allegations that had been made against him, including an allegation that he had caused physical harm to another student, his former girlfriend. That evidence showed that a) she showed no sign whatsoever of having been struck and was completely uninjured, b) she gave wildly different accounts of what had happened that night to police, c) neither of her descriptions of what happened agreed with first-hand accounts provided to police by eyewitnesses, and d) a teammate, Wildcats captain Matt Willows, stated that she later told him that DeSmith had not, in fact, struck her.

After the hearing board examined the evidence, it found that DeSmith was not responsible for causing physical harm, and determined that he should be allowed to register as a student in good standing again as of December 20.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Idk, (not getting political) but with their whitehouse visit storm I think it was pretty clear their PR view (and sports in general) is at least partially in its own little bubble.

Well, they don't like rocking the boat one way or the other. You could argue it would ruffle more PA feathers if they refused a WH visit than the route they went, saying it was a team honour and they're keeping individual politics out of it.

 

[Shady Machine]

NHL should do right thing again: Don't let Slava Voynov back

No thanks on Voynov unless I see serious evidence of demonstrated actions to change as a human being. The type of abuse his wife suffered were extensive and out of line for an employer to bring someone back.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

Thank you for pulling a quote that mentions toluene four times, and hyperlinks it upon first iteration.

I'm trying to now reverse-engineer a persona of who you must think posts on this board.

I just posted the whole statute. I was talking about the drunk in public part. I'm sure somebody on this board has huffed gas before though.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

NHL should do right thing again: Don't let Slava Voynov back

No thanks on Voynov unless I see serious evidence of demonstrated actions to change as a human being. The type of abuse his wife suffered were extensive and out of line for an employer to bring someone back.

That should be a prerequisite, absolutely.

 

[Riptide]

Yet before we had Phil QB'ing the PP, it was merely good.

Phil and Patches are not in the same league when it comes to talent, and it's not that close to where I'd like to exchange Phil @ 6.8 for Patches at 7m or 8m or whatever he gets on next year's cap.

The PP comment is very accurate.

The part that temps me is how complete Patches game is. Personally I'd rather have a lot of 2way or guys who are "good/great" defensively, then someone with a little more skill and are average to below average defensively. We already have multiple elite talents offensively in Crosby & Malkin. I hate the fact that last season we had multiple players who couldn't/shouldn't play with other players because of how poor both were defensively (Sheary, Kessel and Guentzel). This year it's the same thing (with Simon/Sprong in there for Sheary). You have someone like Patches there instead of Kessel, and suddenly that's no longer an issue. So in that regard, it's tempting.