Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building (Cap Details in First Post) | Closed

[Pancakes]

Rumor: - Parayko tops TSN Trade Bait board ahead of roster freeze

A potentially unpopular opinion: I'd 100% trade Guentzel for Parayko

Not comfortable with moving Guentzel when he's the only young top six forward we have. That just fills one hole only to create another.

 

[robes1]

What value does JJ have these days for trades?

 

[Riptide]

I believe Pettersson is going to flourish into a great shutdown d man. He's looked really good so far IMO. A welcome addition to our terribly inconsistent d core, adding in Schultz and giving Rikkola actual playing time would sky rocket our core IMO.

That would require that Rutherford move Maatta and Oleksiak, and not bring in a replacement D (or if he does, one that won't play much). And I don't see that happening this season. Ideally one of those gets moved especially closer to when Schultz returns, just so we're not sitting both MP and Riikola. And while I'm a fan of trading Maatta, I don't think JR will do it this season. I think we'll see something like the below around the TD with Olek getting moved, and then depending on how MP and Riikola do, and our overall cap situation, I could see JR moving Maatta in the summer.

Dumoulin - Letang
Maatta/MP - Schultz
Maatta/MP - Johnson

I honestly don't mind JJ so much the player (and I'll get a ton of grief for that statement), as much as I mind JJ's contract (the term). I know Empo brought up how soft our blueline would be without JJ/Oleksiak. Honestly I could care less about that. If MP and Riikola give you a better blueline, finding someone with size and grit who can play, while challenging is a lot easier to do when you have good players to fit them with, rather then several expensive mistakes.

 

[Riptide]

I am both disgusted and intrigued if that were to happen.

On one hand, Quick is injury prone too, but not as much as Murray has been (like his entire career for example). Also, at 5.8m/yr for a guy that still can be elite between the pipes...buys you more time with Jarry, also if DeSmith falters, etc.

I wouldn't hate it, but I wouldn't say it was bad either....?

If you sent LA, say....

Murray + Oleksiak + 1st (protect, if we win the cup, it's theirs, if we don't, they get our 2nd, if he's not healthy for all of the playoffs, 2nd) = 5.2~ cap hit.
Quick is a 5.8m cap hit.

If you're going to go that far, you make it bigger and add in Maatta and one of Muzzin/Martinez.

 

[Turin]

Just in case people still somehow have this idea, Jarry probably isn’t going to be a quality NHL starter ever.

 

[SEALBound]

Brassard+Kessel for Coyle+Nino?

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Brassard+Kessel for Coyle+Nino?

No

 

[SEALBound]

Brassard+Oleksiak for Myers

Maatta for Kapanen

Jake-Sid-Kappy
ZAR-Malkin-Kessel
Rust-Sheahan-Pearson/Horny
Grant/Wilson/Cullen/Pearson/Horny

Or do nothing:

Jake-Sid-Horny
ZAR-Malkin-Kessel
Simon-Brassard-Rust
Pearson-Sheahan-Grant/Wilson/Cullen

Or do three way:

To Pens: Silfverberg
To Winnipeg: Brassard
To Anaheim: Winnipeg 1st

 

[Riptide]

They grabbed Reaves, which in theory made sense to protect, but you saw it almost immediately that the other teams copied us and that style of play was not going to fit the Pens. So JR fixed it, which was cool, but never really went all-in. Sully's motto was "Fast and fearless" as he ran 4 lines throughout the game. The team had jump because minutes were spread out.

Now we go into this year with Grant, Wilson, ZAR, etc. I'm not saying these guys are all terrible, but it just doesn't 100% fit the mold of what you created. And I respect other teams caught up. That's how a copy cat works. But keep going. You did fine. Go back to what worked.

I don't think that's realistic - for two reasons. Teams evolve, and what worked before may not work again in the future. We rode 1 wave and managed to get two cups out of it. Now it's time to evolve to something slightly different. That doesn't mean go big and slow like what LA/Anaheim/Philly did a decade ago... but I think you need a combination of the two - team speed, mixed with some grit and ideally size.

1) Even if we still went with 'all out speed' (and JR didn't make the trades/signings he did that went against that), we're still only talking about small degree's, with no guarantee that we'd be the fastest. The difference/separation between us and them that we had in 2016 isn't going to be there. In 2016 it was like we were a 8/9 in terms of speed, and everyone else was a 6/7. Now everyone is mostly a 7/8, so even if we're a 8/9 (and it would be next to impossible to get there now), we won't have that same separation we had a few years ago.

2) I think Washington showed that pure speed isn't needed to win. Could we be a little faster? Sure. But I think that's less of an issue then our puck management, and specifically where we're putting the puck. If you're putting the puck into places where your linemate can get it back, pure speed isn't needed - look no further then Hornqvist as a great example of this. He chips the puck into the OZ a lot. And he/a teammate almost always is able to recover it, he doesn't just chip it in and hope for the best.

Edit: another target with Montreal could be Andrew Shaw. I'd hesitate a little bit with him because he seems to be more of a winger who can play center than a center, but he may be another option for a defensive 3C.

Danault makes sense - even if I'm not really sure about a Maatta/Danault deal (1-1). But theres no way I'd go after Shaw. If that's the idea, just give Sheahan an extension - at least he'll be cheaper.

 

[The Old Master]

Just in case people still somehow have this idea, Jarry probably isn’t going to be a quality NHL starter ever.

why?

 

[Gurglesons]

What value does JJ have these days for trades?

A pinch above 0.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Not comfortable with moving Guentzel when he's the only young top six forward we have. That just fills one hole only to create another.

No thanks on Parayko. I'd rather go for a guy that makes half of what he does for the bottom pair. But I'd rather see this team lose a LHD defenseman for a bottom 6 left winger. We need to bolster that bottom 6, a top 9 that shifts up and down.

 

[JackFr]

Rumor: - Parayko tops TSN Trade Bait board ahead of roster freeze

A potentially unpopular opinion: I'd 100% trade Guentzel for Parayko

It'd be nice to have a cannon point shot, but I'm not sold on him actually being that great of a mobile transition D-man.

Not comfortable with moving Guentzel when he's the only young top six forward we have. That just fills one hole only to create another.

Why do people keep saying "Ya know what, I would/wouldn't trade Guentzel for Parayko" as though the Blues would in a million years ever trade their young top-pairing-calibre RD for a LW (their only position of organizational strength) who has never scored more than 48 points.

Like you gotta understand that it's basically like a Minnesota fan being like "Unpopular opinion, I'd trade Niederreiter for Seth Jones." Like that's great that you would, but it would never happen in a million years.

 

[Riptide]

Much of the discussion concerned players who hadn't played in the bigs yet. If it had been clear, we wouldn't be here. Irrelevant though at this point, I'm getting flashbacks of people defending Adams long before the Pens moved on from him.

Adams "long before the Pens moved on from him" was a cheap effective player. The issue was never that we had him, but that we hung onto him for 3/4 years too long. Grant (assuming we're still talking about him) likely doesn't have that problem. Even if we win this season, odds are he won't be resigned - if only due to our own cap crunch and guys like TB who are ready to take his spot.

 

[JackFr]

Danault is interesting as a target. If Montreal likes Maatta that's a pretty great deal right there.

 

[Riptide]

People knocked Rust then like you are knocking the other guys in WBS. It’s no different, except that Rust is a known commodity now so it’s convenient to use hindsight and also pretend he was some major standout in WBS, which isn’t true. The reality is back then he was just a guy getting knocked around on here because he didn’t put up big numbers.

That’s why it’s silly to knock guys unless you actually see them play.

In the summer of 2015 after Rust had played a total of 14 NHL games, very few on this board even wanted him as a 11/12/13F. I'm too lazy to go back and find posts, but I remember saying that given our cap crunch, he'd be fine as a 4th line winger, and most on here saying that he should only be on the roster as a last resort. And that was from a player that we had seen in the NHL already, and when we had a weaker and older roster.

So I don't think using him as some sort of poster child is the way to go.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

Gotta shelter your mentally fragile goalie!

No, Mackey said a home game. They probably want Murray to start in front of the most hostile crowd he could possibly imagine.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

In the summer of 2015 after Rust had played a total of 14 NHL games, very few on this board even wanted him as a 11/12/13F. I'm too lazy to go back and find posts, but I remember saying that given our cap crunch, he'd be fine as a 4th line winger, and most on here saying that he should only be on the roster as a last resort. And that was from a player that we had seen in the NHL already, and when we had a weaker and older roster.

So I don't think using him as some sort of poster child is the way to go.

You are literally confirming what I just wrote, so um, your last sentence makes zero sense.

 

[JackFr]

If Letang is hurt for more than a week we are absolutely f***ed. If we thought the past few months have been bad, we are gonna get absolutely caved in without him.

 

[Riptide]

Rumor: - Parayko tops TSN Trade Bait board ahead of roster freeze

A potentially unpopular opinion: I'd 100% trade Guentzel for Parayko

I wouldn't. There's other ways to find good PMD. Perhaps they're not as good as Parayko, but neither do they have to be.

Just in case people still somehow have this idea, Jarry probably isn’t going to be a quality NHL starter ever.

Based on what exactly? I'm not saying he's some sure fire thing... but 2 years ago people didn't even think DeSmith would be a backup in the NHL. And right now he's one of the better backup's out there.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

If Letang is hurt for more than a week we are absolutely ****ed. If we thought the past few months have been bad, we are gonna get absolutely caved in without him.

I'm worried what JR might do to try and rectify not having Letang (or Schultz).

 

[billybudd]

And your entire roster doesn't need to be that and you need safe and vanilla guys like Grant to do the grunt work. Every cup winning team has guys like Fehr, Kuhnhackl, Kruger and Lewis on their team.

Whoa, hold up, there. You just named 4 guys who are/were way, way, way better than Alex Grant as a justification for why Grant has value on a contender. I can't follow this thought process at all.

 

[billybudd]

Huge fan of Parayko, but not for Jake. The number of guys who can play wing and who've been able to read off Crosby properly in his career, including international competition, numbers something like 8--and one of them was Pascal Dupuis, whose stick was made of rubber.

When 87's still a/the top player, you don't ship out a guy like Jake if you've got him at the beginning of his prime, no matter how much you need a D man.

 

[66-30-33]

I'm worried what JR might do to try and rectify not having Letang (or Schultz).

Hopefully sell off our UFAs and go for the WBS kids for a youth movement. Also rework the D.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Hopefully sell off our UFAs and go for the WBS kids for a youth movement. Also rework the D.

That's what they probably *should* do. But what JR will probably do is overpay for a replacement for Letang because he doesn't want to concede this season with our core still in its prime.