Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building (Cap Details in First Post) | All Your Base Are Belong to Us

[Tom Hanks]

So am I the only one expecting the Penguins to trade Brassard straight up for Wenneberg in the next few day? Because that seems very similar to the Perron for Hagelin or Hagelin for Pearson trades, and that's what I imagine JR is going to be trying to do.

At 4.9 mil AAV I’d shy away from that for 4 more years. Good player but having a down year. Rather a cheaper C so we can upgrade/improve a winger now and longer term. Especially as it looks like we’d have quite a few options in the trade market at the moment.

JR may have an even bigger picture though of where he wants the roster to be.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I just don't know, I feel like the fact that JR went aggressively after Brassard a year ago is a great argument for why he'd go after Wennberg now. Brassard for Wennberg also fits the same mold as the Perron for Hagelin and Hagelin for Pearson trades, it's trading a struggling pending UFA for a struggling younger player with term. It also makes sense for Columbus, in the sense that they'd be acquiring Brassard to be their 2C and have to move out a center if they're bringing him in. PLD is their 1C and Jenner is their 3C, so Wennberg is the logical guy to move out if they're bringing in Brassard.

At 4.9 mil AAV I’d shy away from that for 4 more years. Good player but having a down year. Rather a cheaper C so we can upgrade/improve a winger now and longer term. Especially as it looks like we’d have quite a few options in the trade market at the moment.

JR may have an even bigger picture though of where he wants the roster to be.

If Oleksiak gets traded, I think $4.9 million is damn near the maximum you can afford for a 3C. But the important part is that you can afford that.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Wennberg kills penalties and has done so more often than Brassard.

Good for him.

He's a career 45% at the dot and...

Everything is much softer than Brassard's usage.
I just don't see it...

 

[Empoleon8771]

Good for him.

He's a career 45% at the dot and...

Everything is much softer than Brassard's usage.
I just don't see it...

Brassard is also only 48% at the dot over his career. Also, Brassard was used in even more of an offensive role before coming to Pittsburgh than how Wennberg has been used.

I'm pretty sure that the Penguins would be targeting Wennberg for the same reason they targeted Brassard: to make a dangerous offensive 3rd line. My guess is that JR doesn't think that Brassard failed here because the Penguins need a specific type of 3C.

 

[Peat]

Good for him.

He's a career 45% at the dot and...

Everything is much softer than Brassard's usage.
I just don't see it...

I don't think the things you mentioned matter all that much to Rutherford.

I still don't see it happening, but that isn't why.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Carter, E.Staal interest? Yea i can see it but i just don't see Wenneberg, sorry.

I don't think the things you mentioned matter all that much to Rutherford.

I still don't see it happening, but that isn't why.

I think they do after what JR just went through with Brass.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I just don't know, I feel like the fact that JR went aggressively after Brassard a year ago is a great argument for why he'd go after Wennberg now. Brassard for Wennberg also fits the same mold as the Perron for Hagelin and Hagelin for Pearson trades, it's trading a struggling pending UFA for a struggling younger player with term. It also makes sense for Columbus, in the sense that they'd be acquiring Brassard to be their 2C and have to move out a center if they're bringing him in. PLD is their 1C and Jenner is their 3C, so Wennberg is the logical guy to move out if they're bringing in Brassard.



If Oleksiak gets traded, I think $4.9 million is damn near the maximum you can afford for a 3C. But the important part is that you can afford that.

I’m sure we’d could make it work it’s just it really handcuffs what you can do now and next season. Boone Jenner would make more sense for us if we are dealing with CBJ.

I guess everything will fall back on how much do teams want him (Brassard)

 

[Empoleon8771]

I’m sure we’d could make it work it’s just it really handcuffs what you can do now and next season. Boone Jenner would make more sense for us if we are dealing with CBJ.

I guess everything will fall back on how much do teams want him (Brassard)

The problem is that there is borderline no chance that the Jackets would trade Jenner for Brassard. Wennberg makes sense because Brassard would be replacing Wennberg on the depth chart, but Jenner is used in a different role entirely. I'm also not sure $4.9 million really "handcuffs" you, it's about the absolute maximum you can be at without moving out someone like Maatta, Kessel or Pearson.

I view the 3C cap to be about $4.75 million, which is the maximum salary I'm willing to take Staal back at. Wennberg is only a little bit over that, to the point where I think it would work fine.

 

[Peat]

Carter, E.Staal interest? Yea i can see it but i just don't see Wenneberg, sorry.



I think they do after what JR just went through with Brass.

Nothing of what I've read or heard from Rutherford - or the media - indicates that he shares this belief as to why things went south or that he'll act on it in the future.

 

[Turin]

Jordan Staal sucks this year and the owner is impatient and wants more scoring. Jor-dan Staal. Jor-dan Staal.

 

[Peat]

In second thoughts - if CBJ are chasing one last shot at glory before a retool - brassard and picks for Wennberg makes sense.

I don't like it, but maybe it is possible

 

[Empoleon8771]

Actually, I just did the math and the Penguins can't afford Wennberg beyond this year most likely. I got about $82.8 million for 11 forwards, 7 D and 2 goalies, so you'd have to make another trade to be able to afford Wennberg. At that point, I'd rather just target someone cheaper.

From what I can tell, I think the maximum the Penguins can afford without making any other trades is $3.5 million, and that would be tight. It's also entirely possible that the Penguins trade Pearson and just put ZAR in the top-9, which solves your cap problems entirely with having Wennberg as the 3C. Would you rather have ZAR-Wennberg-Kessel or Pearson-lesser 3C-Kessel as your 3rd line?

In second thoughts - if CBJ are chasing one last shot at glory before a retool - brassard and picks for Wennberg makes sense.

I don't like it, but maybe it is possible

This is actually a really good point to mention, because Panarin and Bobrovsky are both gone after this year. They're going to take a big step back most likely.

I think there are 2 angles where Brassard for Wennberg doesn't make sense: the fact that they're rivals trading moderately significant pieces and the long term cap implications for the Penguins. Otherwise, it makes a lot of sense for both sides.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Nothing of what I've read or heard from Rutherford - or the media - indicates that he shares this belief as to why things went south or that he'll act on it in the future.

I just don't see JR countering with Wenneberg, sorry.
He'd counter with pieces CBJ wouldn't be willing to give up. We're wasting key strokes here.

 

[Tom Hanks]

The problem is that there is borderline no chance that the Jackets would trade Jenner for Brassard. Wennberg makes sense because Brassard would be replacing Wennberg on the depth chart, but Jenner is used in a different role entirely. I'm also not sure $4.9 million really "handcuffs" you, it's about the absolute maximum you can be at without moving out someone like Maatta, Kessel or Pearson.

I view the 3C cap to be about $4.75 million, which is the maximum salary I'm willing to take Staal back at. Wennberg is only a little bit over that, to the point where I think it would work fine.

We’d have to move some salary out next season to fit in the cap and have a full roster. I’m at 84 mil (22 man roster) with L4 being ZAR 1.2 and 2 others at league minimum (700k) and a 13th at 700k. On D MP at 1.5 mil and Riikola 900k.

I’m not sure the cap would go to that but still your at a 22 man roster with no wriggle room. Yeah we can move the guys you mentioned but you still want good players to replace them.

 

[Empoleon8771]

We’d have to move some salary out next season to fit in the cap and have a full roster. I’m at 84 mil (22 man roster) with L4 being ZAR 1.2 and 2 others at league minimum (700k) and a 13th at 700k. On D MP at 1.5 mil and Riikola 900k.

I’m not sure the cap would go to that but still your at a 22 man roster with no wriggle room. Yeah we can move the guys you mentioned but you still want good players to replace them.

Yeah, I redid the math and realized they likely couldn't afford him without any other moves. But that created an interesting thought, would you rather see ZAR-Wennberg-Kessel as your 3rd line or would you rather keep Pearson and go after a lesser 3C? Just trading Pearson and replacing him with ZAR in the top-9 gives you the cap space you need to have an expensive 3C, and maybe even Blandisi factors in as the 4th line LW or RW for next season. It's a thought worth having IMO. As far as I can tell, this lineup:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Simon-Malkin-Hornqvist
ZAR-Wennberg-Kessel
Blueger-Cullen-Blandisi
Dea

Dumoulin-Letang
Maatta-Schultz
Pettersson-Johnson
Riikola

Murray-DeSmith

Works with the cap.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Where are you getting that he's traveling with the team to 'Zona?


Also fun fact - this ass clown was drafted at PPG in 2012 by the Avs.

JR, you dumb ****ing old ass hat. What are you doing? Stop playing other people's trash on this team, what the **** do you have an AHL team with prospects for if you aren't going to use them?

Blueger has been far better than Blandisi in the AHL, similar age, no waiver issues, team also spent money on developing him....why the **** wouldn't you call him up?

Blandisi has NHL experience at LW. Has scored at a reasonable pace (31 pt pace in his time in NJ/zippo in 6 Anaheim games). Is speedy.

But because hes not Blueger he must be garbage and this org is stupid because they dont go out of their way to get him 2 games in the 4th line while out of position. Yeesh.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Yeah, I redid the math and realized they likely couldn't afford him without any other moves. But that created an interesting thought, would you rather see ZAR-Wennberg-Kessel as your 3rd line or would you rather keep Pearson and go after a lesser 3C? Just trading Pearson and replacing him with ZAR in the top-9 gives you the cap space you need to have an expensive 3C, and maybe even Blandisi factors in as the 4th line LW or RW for next season. It's a thought worth having IMO. As far as I can tell, this lineup:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Simon-Malkin-Hornqvist
ZAR-Wennberg-Kessel
Blueger-Cullen-Blandisi
Dea

Dumoulin-Letang
Maatta-Schultz
Pettersson-Johnson
Riikola

Murray-DeSmith

Works with the cap.

That’s a decent line up but for me I’d like to see a winger from the outside for Malkin right now. I think he needs a better fit. Which would likely mean a cheaper 3C to make that work.

 

[Peat]

I just don't see JR countering with Wenneberg, sorry.
He'd counter with pieces CBJ wouldn't be willing to give up. We're wasting key strokes here.

Why though? What in Rutherford's actions or words make you believe he only wants a hardened d-zone warrior to replace Brassard?

 

[Shady Machine]

So am I the only one expecting the Penguins to trade Brassard straight up for Wenneberg in the next few day? Because that seems very similar to the Perron for Hagelin or Hagelin for Pearson trades, and that's what I imagine JR is going to be trying to do.

Why would they trade wenneberg? I thought they liked him? Honestly haven’t watched Columbus this year though. Still seems unlikely to trade in division to me but who knows.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why would they trade wenneberg? I thought they liked him? Honestly haven’t watched Columbus this year though. Still seems unlikely to trade in division to me but who knows.

He only has 1 goal in 46 games this year and if they're acquiring Brassard, Wennberg is the logical guy that Brassard would be replacing. Wennberg hasn't really lived up to the contract they gave him after his big year in 2016-2017. The trade very much fits the mold of the Perron for Hagelin trade in 2016, I just have questions whether it would actually happen for other reasons (long term cap repercussions and rivalry being the big two).

That’s a decent line up but for me I’d like to see a winger from the outside for Malkin right now. I think he needs a better fit. Which would likely mean a cheaper 3C to make that work.

I feel like any trade for a Malkin winger has to involve one of Kessel, Hornqvist or Rust being shipped out. I don't see how you can realistically acquire another top-9 winger unless they're on a cheap contract. You just have so much on the wings already, both in terms of money and talent.

Edit: from what I've read, I'd be super intrigued to see what Blandisi looks like next to Malkin. I don't think they'd do it, I think he's solely a depth guy, but I'd be really intrigued to see how that duo would look.

 

[NMK11]

I feel like we're doubly unlikely to trade Brassard in the division because whomever we're getting back is likely worse than Brassard. We're looking for fit, and there's a more than good chance that Brassard going to another team and playing 2C minutes with good OZ starts will turn him back into what he was. Any trade with Brassard, unless it's matched with a defenseman trade (e.g. Oleksiak for a second pairing guy) likely sends more skill to whomever our trade partner is than what's coming back. That should rule out any Brassard trade to CBJ or Carolina.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Why though? What in Rutherford's actions or words make you believe he only wants a hardened d-zone warrior to replace Brassard?

I just don't see him looking at Wenneberg specifically and saying he would be a great 3C for PO hockey on this squad. So if he's not gonna make the 3rd line amazingly potent nor will he be a DZ warrior, i don't see the point from JR's perspective. All while costing 1.9M more than Brass now and moving forward.

 

[Peat]

He only has 1 goal in 46 games this year and if they're acquiring Brassard, Wennberg is the logical guy that Brassard would be replacing. Wennberg hasn't really lived up to the contract they gave him after his big year in 2016-2017. The trade very much fits the mold of the Perron for Hagelin trade in 2016, I just have questions whether it would actually happen for other reasons (long term cap repercussions and rivalry being the big two).

The cap can be made to work. I don't much for the idea of it, but its possible.

The big one there is the rivalry. I mean, place yourself in Kekalainen's shoes - do you want to trade Brassard for a relatively modest price to your main rivals, only to see him rebound there and become a thorn in your side for the next 5 years? That's nightmare fuel.

Although on the flip side, the prospect of us trading Brassard there and having him help beat us is equally nightmarish. If Rutherford's going to listen to those calls, there's got to a seriously aggressive ask on his part to make it worthwhile. I can see him looking at Wennberg, even if I personally don't care for it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The cap can be made to work. I don't much for the idea of it, but its possible.

The big one there is the rivalry. I mean, place yourself in Kekalainen's shoes - do you want to trade Brassard for a relatively modest price to your main rivals, only to see him rebound there and become a thorn in your side for the next 5 years? That's nightmare fuel.

Although on the flip side, the prospect of us trading Brassard there and having him help beat us is equally nightmarish. If Rutherford's going to listen to those calls, there's got to a seriously aggressive ask on his part to make it worthwhile. I can see him looking at Wennberg, even if I personally don't care for it.

Yeah, the cap can work, but it involves likely trading Pearson and replacing him with ZAR in the top-9. Will the Penguins want to move Pearson after he has been pretty solid with them? I'd like to think no, but then again, ZAR has only 2 fewer points in 3 fewer games since Pearson got to the Penguins. ZAR also hasn't spent as much time with Crosby and Malkin as Pearson has. Is it worth keeping Pearson for $3.75 million and his 20 goals and 40 point ceiling, when you can probably get 15 goals and 30 points for $1 million out of ZAR?

 

[Peat]

Yeah, the cap can work, but it involves likely trading Pearson and replacing him with ZAR in the top-9. Will the Penguins want to move Pearson after he has been pretty solid with them? I'd like to think no, but then again, ZAR has only 2 fewer points in 3 fewer games since Pearson got to the Penguins. ZAR also hasn't spent as much time with Crosby and Malkin as Pearson has. Is it worth keeping Pearson for $3.75 million and his 20 goals and 40 point ceiling, when you can probably get 15 goals and 30 points for $1 million out of ZAR?

Well, reference the Henrique conversation, only with an extra million shaved off (which does help a decent amount). Exact same argument. Personally, ZAR vs Pearson... I don't mind all that much, but I do like the depth, and that makes me reluctant

Would I do it? Probably not. Would Rutherford? I'm not sure, he's been reluctant to tie up too much in 3C to date... but I don't think I can rule it out.