Player Discussion Ryan Suter

[Dr Jan Itor]

I think it's fair to say that Brodin has games where he looks better than Suter, but in general, there is no doubt who is the better player. They play in totally different roles, though. Brodin plays with a grab bag of Dmen, and gets near zero PP TOI. Suter plays with Spurgeon, who is terrific.

Only because of injuries, which isn't uncommon for the healthy 2nd pair defenseman to do when there is an injury in the top 4.

He might get PP time if he showed anything close to a pulse offensively at even strength.

 

[57special]

Only because of injuries, which isn't uncommon for the healthy 2nd pair defenseman to do when there is an injury in the top 4.

He might get PP time if he showed anything close to a pulse offensively at even strength.

Again, when you are stuck with an assortment of crap as your partner, it's hard to get overly aggressive, though I have seen him with some excellent pinches recently. Suter complains if he has Dumba as a partner....that's the best that Brodin can hope for.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Again, when you are stuck with an assortment of crap as your partner, it's hard to get overly aggressive, though I have seen him with some excellent pinches recently. Suter complains if he has Dumba as a partner....that's the best that Brodin can hope for.

He gets stuck with the "crap" because he hasn't asserted himself to a better position. If he was actually better than Suter, then he and Spurgeon would be playing 25-27 minutes a night together, but they're not.

 

[2Pair]

Again, when you are stuck with an assortment of crap as your partner, it's hard to get overly aggressive, though I have seen him with some excellent pinches recently. Suter complains if he has Dumba as a partner....that's the best that Brodin can hope for.

Brodin certainly isn't the guy in the top 4 that is getting "stuck" with anyone. He's that guy

 

[Twoods1623]

Brodin certainly isn't the guy in the top 4 that is getting "stuck" with anyone. He's that guy

I respect your opinion, but I don't believe you're correct about this. I feel Brodin is very under appreciated here. Call me a Brodin apologist if you want, but the guy is a stud defensively. When he plays with guys like Dumba and Hunt, he has to defer offensively, because they are going to get themselves out of position playing the puck in the offensive zone. He's not going to light up the scoreboards by any means. We all know that. What he does for the team is he creates a safety net to allow his partner to basically do whatever they want. He does the little things very well that some observers don't realize until he's injured. When he was with Spurgeon, he didn't have to be a safety net, and he was able to jump into the play when it was the right time to. This is all from the eye test and I don't have any fancy stats to back it up, but he's a very good #4 on this team. I believe he could be a #2/3 for plenty of other teams.

 

[nt3005]

Brodin certainly isn't the guy in the top 4 that is getting "stuck" with anyone. He's that guy

Oh yes. Pateryn is stuck with Brodin. Good call.

 

[AKL]

He doesn’t “have to defer offensively for the good of the pairing”

He just doesn’t have an offensive game.

No ones denying he’s great defensively, but he’s not “stuck babysitting” by any means. He just doesn’t have the offensive side to his game to effectively do that stuff that Dumba, Suter and Spurgeon do.

Do some of you really think he’d be a 40-50 point player if he wasn’t “covering for” Dumba?

 

[Nsjohnson]

Defensively maybe it's close, but with the puck on his stick, Brodin is closer to Prosser than he is to Suter.

I agree Suter is better, but I think this season Brodin really took some sort of step forward. I also would like to know what Brodin looks like with an entire season playing with a really good d partner.

EDIT: Still not saying he would be better than Suter. I am just curious.

 

[Twoods1623]

He doesn’t “have to defer offensively for the good of the pairing”

He just doesn’t have an offensive game.

No ones denying he’s great defensively, but he’s not “stuck babysitting” by any means. He just doesn’t have the offensive side to his game to effectively do that stuff that Dumba, Suter and Spurgeon do.

Do some of you really think he’d be a 40-50 point player if he wasn’t “covering for” Dumba?

I might have misspoke about being paired with Dumba and Hunt. Covering is not what I was going for, but it seemed implied by my post. I'm not saying he's going to put up 40+ points in a season. I'm just saying he defers based on knowing his partner is better in the offensive zone, and lets his partner play free to their liking. Paired with Spurgeon, Spurgeon plays an amazing two way game, and that allows Brodin to take chances on plays that normally he usually isn't comfortable doing.

 

[AKL]

I agree Suter is better, but I think this season Brodin really took some sort of step forward.

Step forward from 20-25 point defenseman to 17 point defenseman?

I also would like to know what Brodin looks like with an entire season playing with a really good d partner.

EDIT: Still not saying he would be better than Suter. I am just curious.

You mean like the first three years of his career when he played with Suter? Or last season when he got significant time with Spurgeon/Dumba?

 

[Digitalbooya]

Step forward from 20-25 point defenseman to 17 point defenseman?

Took a quick glance at Brodin's career stacks. His points per 82 games is slowly dropping since the departure of Scott Stevens.

 

[chchelseII]

Brodin has been one of our best players night in/night out. Nobody's better than him retrieving the puck in the defensive zone, escaping the forecheck, and getting the puck out of the zone. Suter is nowhere near as good at this as Brodin. Lately Suter has been letting the forechecker get to the puck first and then tying him up and battling for the puck. Still effective because he's so strong, but what Brodin does is beautiful.

 

[2Pair]

Oh yes. Pateryn is stuck with Brodin. Good call.

Has Pateryn spent a lot of time in the Wild top 4 since Brodin has been here?

 

[2Pair]

I might have misspoke about being paired with Dumba and Hunt. Covering is not what I was going for, but it seemed implied by my post. I'm not saying he's going to put up 40+ points in a season. I'm just saying he defers based on knowing his partner is better in the offensive zone, and lets his partner play free to their liking. Paired with Spurgeon, Spurgeon plays an amazing two way game, and that allows Brodin to take chances on plays that normally he usually isn't comfortable doing.

But Brodin doesn't just "defer" to his partners offensively. Brodin is flat out bad in the offensive zone. He kills so many shifts by having no idea what to do with the puck on offense. The worst part is that the kid has every skill necessary to be a great offensive player.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Small sample size, and I in no way think brodin is even relatively close to Suter as a player, but here’s an interesting note:

In the 8 games this season that Brodin has played with Dumba, he has 4 points.

In the 24 games Suter has played with Dumba, he is pacing for almost 65 points over a full season.

Both are really small sample sizes. But:

Suter this season without Dumba is on pace for about 37 points.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

But Brodin doesn't just "defer" to his partners offensively. Brodin is flat out bad in the offensive zone. He kills so many shifts by having no idea what to do with the puck on offense. The worst part is that the kid has every skill necessary to be a great offensive player.

what exactly does suter have that brodin doesnt? the mindset to shoot for tips rather than hit the net?

 

[2Pair]

what exactly does suter have that brodin doesnt? the mindset to shoot for tips rather than hit the net?

A brain? A pair of balls? Not really sure to be honest. I just know that if you're in the offensive zone, Brodin isn't going to be helpful.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

A brain? A pair of balls? Not really sure to be honest. I just know that if you're in the offensive zone, Brodin isn't going to be helpful.

Suter is about as helpful as Brodin in the offensive zone.

 

[P10p]

Suter is about as helpful as Brodin in the offensive zone.

False

 

[DeagleJenkins]

False

in what regard? his shooting wide of the net hoping for a tip or his constant looking to pass from everywhere? what makes him better in the offensive zone?

 

[TaLoN]

Suter is about as helpful as Brodin in the offensive zone.

His ability to maintain the zone when opponents try to clear can be magical, his passing instincts in the cycle are much better than Brodin's, his instincts on when to pinch also.

As much as everyone hates on his limp wrister, it gets on goal quite frequently and his teammates get good tips on it.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

His ability to maintain the zone when opponents try to clear can be magical, his passing instincts in the cycle are much better than Brodin's, his instincts on when to pinch also.

As much as everyone hates on his limp wrister, it gets on goal quite frequently and his teammates get good tips on it.

I dislike his want to shoot for a tip more than a rebound. would much prefer to just hit the net and let the garbage goals happen. He may have better passing instincts but i do like brodins ability to hold the zone and pinch.

 

[TaLoN]

I dislike his want to shoot for a tip more than a rebound. would much prefer to just hit the net and let the garbage goals happen. He may have better passing instincts but i do like brodins ability to hold the zone and pinch.

Suter has elite skills in holding the zone, Brodin is avg at best.

As for pinching instincts, Brodin does pinch on occasion, but has poor instincts for it, thus it's afraid of doing it, thus doesn't do it enough when he should.

Suter has great instincts for it and doesn't fear it.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Suter has elite skills in holding the zone, Brodin is avg at best.

As for pinching instincts, Brodin does pinch on occasion, but has poor instincts for it, thus it's afraid of doing it, thus doesn't do it enough when he should.

Suter has great instincts for it and doesn't fear it.

i must be watching a different game then. not seeing anything similar in regards to pinching. reasonably sure the D is told not to pinch early in the game considering how little they do it then towards the end when we need offense they just pinch constantly.

 

[Nino Noderreiter]

My take is that while Brodin might not be a point producing D-man, he is not a bad offensive D-man.

Brodin may not put up points, but he is really great at turning defensive situations to offense and making good breakout and transition passes. He's also really good at taking the puck off the wall when teams dump it in and turning it back up the ice offensively with good breakout passes. He is not an offensive liability, he helps any given offensive-five man unit in a secondary way.

Clayton Stoner, for example, was a liability on offense. He was neither a point-producer or a positive-offensive contributor.

He may not be Spurgeon, Dumba, or Suter with the puck, but he is amazing defensively and does things that lead to offense and contribute to positive offenses. Plus his ability to quickly turn defensive rushes, not just stop those rushes, but be able to quickly and effectively move the puck to forwards with speed in order to move out of the zone, through the neutral zone, and into the opposing offensive zone with speed is really good.

Be careful what you wish for when clamoring for guys like Brodin's head. The Wild play above their talent level offensively because of how good their D are in terms of contributing offensively and as puck-movers.

Look at the Avs, forwards as good as anyone....but struggle because of how often they get stuck in the defensive zone and their inability to get it out of the defensive zone when it is there.