Player Discussion Ryan Suter

[TaLoN]

My take is that while Brodin might not be a point producing D-man, he is not a bad offensive D-man.

Brodin may not put up points, but he is really great at turning defensive situations to offense and making good breakout and transition passes. He's also really good at taking the puck off the wall when teams dump it in and turning it back up the ice offensively with good breakout passes. He is not an offensive liability, he helps any given offensive-five man unit in a secondary way.

Clayton Stoner, for example, was a liability on offense. He was neither a point-producer or a positive-offensive contributor.

He may not be Spurgeon, Dumba, or Suter with the puck, but he is amazing defensively and does things that lead to offense and contribute to positive offenses. Plus his ability to quickly turn defensive rushes, not just stop those rushes, but be able to quickly and effectively move the puck to forwards with speed in order to move out of the zone, through the neutral zone, and into the opposing offensive zone with speed is really good.

Be careful what you wish for when clamoring for guys like Brodin's head. The Wild play above their talent level offensively because of how good their D are in terms of contributing offensively and as puck-movers.

Look at the Avs, forwards as good as anyone....but struggle because of how often they get stuck in the defensive zone and their inability to get it out of the defensive zone when it is there.

The question at hand was what Suter does well that Brodin doesn't.

I don't think anyone is calling for Brodin's head, but just answering the question at hand.

 

[57special]

Suter has elite skills in holding the zone, Brodin is avg at best.

As for pinching instincts, Brodin does pinch on occasion, but has poor instincts for it, thus it's afraid of doing it, thus doesn't do it enough when he should.

Suter has great instincts for it and doesn't fear it.

Completely and utterly disagree. Brodin is vg to EXC. at pinching. Suter is good, but his lack of speed this year has made him less good. I can see someone not being awed by what Brodin does with the puck after he gets possession from a successful pinch, but that's another dimension.

Suter is better at all sorts of things over Brodin, but pinching and puck retrieval are not among them. With his slower feet this year, Suter's defense to the outside is also no longer awesome, and even his board battles (where he used to be one of the best) have suffered. He's just a little bit late to things, and I don't think he has adjusted mentally.
Hopefully he comes back healed up next year(and regains a bit of speed), or he learns and adapts his game to his new physical reality.

 

[TaLoN]

Completely and utterly disagree. Brodin is vg to EXC. at pinching. Suter is good, but his lack of speed this year has made him less good. I can see someone not being awed by what Brodin does with the puck after he gets possession from a successful pinch, but that's another dimension.

Suter is better at all sorts of things over Brodin, but pinching and puck retrieval are not among them. With his slower feet this year, Suter's defense to the outside is also no longer awesome, and even his board battles (where he used to be one of the best) have suffered. He's just a little bit late to things, and I don't think he has adjusted mentally.
Hopefully he comes back healed up next year(and regains a bit of speed), or he learns and adapts his game to his new physical reality.

I'm not saying Brodin is bad when he pinches, I'm saying he doesn't have the instincts for it, and often bails when he should pinch instead, because he fears his pinching instincts.

Suter has great instincts for it, pinches at the right times, and rarely if ever gets caught when doing it.

Brodin rarely if ever gets caught as well, but he doesn't do it often times when he should.

 

[57special]

I'm not saying Brodin is bad when he pinches, I'm saying he doesn't have the instincts for it, and often bails when he should pinch instead, because he fears his pinching instincts.

Suter has great instincts for it, pinches at the right times, and rarely if ever gets caught when doing it.

Brodin rarely if ever gets caught as well, but he doesn't do it often times when he should.

Ah, I see. Well, I still don't agree, at least with the new version of Suter. Don't get me wrong, but as the second biggest Brodin Bobo in the world, I still recognize that Suter has been, and still is the better player. I just see Suter getting caught at all sorts of things that he never used to get caught at doing. It's not mental with him, but physical.

The way I was taught to pinch was to only go either when the opponents back was turned and you could arrive before he could turn with puck possession, OR only go when you are 100% sure that you will win the battle. You also throw the rules out in the last 5 minutes or so of a game when you are behind. I see Brodin doing all that. Remember, it's one thing to pinch when you have Spurge backing you up, quite another to have Bitetto back there. I think Brodin understands that, and the coaching staff has made it pretty clear to him that he is expected to pull it together on the 2nd pairing, especially with Dumba out.

 

[2Pair]

Suter is about as helpful as Brodin in the offensive zone.

How's that again?

in what regard? his shooting wide of the net hoping for a tip or his constant looking to pass from everywhere? what makes him better in the offensive zone?

Suter is 13th in the NHL in points among dmen. Brodin is tied for 108th.

 

[2Pair]

My take is that while Brodin might not be a point producing D-man, he is not a bad offensive D-man.

Brodin may not put up points, but he is really great at turning defensive situations to offense and making good breakout and transition passes. He's also really good at taking the puck off the wall when teams dump it in and turning it back up the ice offensively with good breakout passes. He is not an offensive liability, he helps any given offensive-five man unit in a secondary way.

Clayton Stoner, for example, was a liability on offense. He was neither a point-producer or a positive-offensive contributor.

He may not be Spurgeon, Dumba, or Suter with the puck, but he is amazing defensively and does things that lead to offense and contribute to positive offenses. Plus his ability to quickly turn defensive rushes, not just stop those rushes, but be able to quickly and effectively move the puck to forwards with speed in order to move out of the zone, through the neutral zone, and into the opposing offensive zone with speed is really good.

Be careful what you wish for when clamoring for guys like Brodin's head. The Wild play above their talent level offensively because of how good their D are in terms of contributing offensively and as puck-movers.

Look at the Avs, forwards as good as anyone....but struggle because of how often they get stuck in the defensive zone and their inability to get it out of the defensive zone when it is there.

I honestly wish that Jonas Brodin was half the player that you think he is.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

How's that again?



Suter is 13th in the NHL in points among dmen. Brodin is tied for 108th.

swap them next season, give brodin suters minutes and pp time, only play suter on pk and 5v5. think suter still gains more points?

 

[2Pair]

swap them next season, give brodin suters minutes and pp time, only play suter on pk and 5v5. think suter still gains more points?

It wouldn't even be f***ing close. Ryan Suter is 19th among NHL dmen in even strength points. Brodin is 105th

 

[AKL]

swap them next season, give brodin suters minutes and pp time, only play suter on pk and 5v5. think suter still gains more points?

I can’t fathom how you can watch these two players play for the last 6 years and somehow think Brodin is better or even as good as Suter offensively. It’s not close.

The only explanation I can think of is that, Brodin has been more assertive at points this season than he has in the past, and Suter hasn’t been as good as he has in the past (because of the injury), and somewhere in your head the wires are getting crossed and you’re tricking yourself into believing that because Brodin is having a “relatively good” season and Suter a “relatively bad” season, that Brodin is somehow better than Suter.

In reality, Suter is still far better than Brodin.

 

[Nino Noderreiter]

I honestly wish that Jonas Brodin was half the player that you think he is.

What do I think Jonas Brodin is?

 

[Nino Noderreiter]

The question at hand was what Suter does well that Brodin doesn't.

I don't think anyone is calling for Brodin's head, but just answering the question at hand.

Fair point.

I think Suter is much better at dictating pace than Brodin. Suter's play style may look deliberate, but he controls play in a way that is usually advantageous to the Wild--especially in terms of regrouping and breaking the puck up the ice. Suter is also much better at holding the point than Brodin. Suter can carry the puck better than Brodin, even if it is mostly just to get the puck over the blue line and dump and chase it to relieve pressure. He has better offensive instincts about when and how to pinch and/or jump in the play offensively. He can walk the blue line better than Brodin and can handle the puck much better than Brodin especially in tight spaces. He's also a better passer than Brodin.

Suter's deliberate and fundamental looking movements, hide how effective and productive his offensive game is.

They are in different categories.

 

[P10p]

My take is that while Brodin might not be a point producing D-man, he is not a bad offensive D-man.

Brodin may not put up points, but he is really great at turning defensive situations to offense and making good breakout and transition passes. He's also really good at taking the puck off the wall when teams dump it in and turning it back up the ice offensively with good breakout passes. He is not an offensive liability, he helps any given offensive-five man unit in a secondary way.

Clayton Stoner, for example, was a liability on offense. He was neither a point-producer or a positive-offensive contributor.

He may not be Spurgeon, Dumba, or Suter with the puck, but he is amazing defensively and does things that lead to offense and contribute to positive offenses. Plus his ability to quickly turn defensive rushes, not just stop those rushes, but be able to quickly and effectively move the puck to forwards with speed in order to move out of the zone, through the neutral zone, and into the opposing offensive zone with speed is really good.

Be careful what you wish for when clamoring for guys like Brodin's head. The Wild play above their talent level offensively because of how good their D are in terms of contributing offensively and as puck-movers.

Look at the Avs, forwards as good as anyone....but struggle because of how often they get stuck in the defensive zone and their inability to get it out of the defensive zone when it is there.

Cant speak for anyone else but I was just pointing out Suter is better offensively than Brodin ainec. Not saying I'd want Brodin shipped out though.

 

[TaLoN]

swap them next season, give brodin suters minutes and pp time, only play suter on pk and 5v5. think suter still gains more points?

It's not like Brodin has never been tried on the PP, he's been tried a lot there, but he gives no reason to continue to go to that well since it's already proven to be a pretty damn dry well.

The board was in a pretty big uproar here for a while when he was put on the PP for a few months, he was so bad at it!

 

[DeagleJenkins]

It's not like Brodin has never been tried on the PP, he's been tried a lot there, but he gives no reason to continue to go to that well since it's already proven to be a pretty damn dry well.

The board was in a pretty big uproar here for a while when he was put on the PP for a few months, he was so bad at it!

wasnt that last year with stevens? i dont recall him there much at all.

It wouldn't even be ****ing close. Ryan Suter is 19th among NHL dmen in even strength points. Brodin is 105th

again, same minutes and line usage. being used as a 1-2 D vs 3-4 D does make a difference.

I can’t fathom how you can watch these two players play for the last 6 years and somehow think Brodin is better or even as good as Suter offensively. It’s not close.

The only explanation I can think of is that, Brodin has been more assertive at points this season than he has in the past, and Suter hasn’t been as good as he has in the past (because of the injury), and somewhere in your head the wires are getting crossed and you’re tricking yourself into believing that because Brodin is having a “relatively good” season and Suter a “relatively bad” season, that Brodin is somehow better than Suter.

In reality, Suter is still far better than Brodin.

Wasnt using 6 years was using this year for this but if we wanna go into the past obviously suter has better numbers and has been better over his career.

 

[dBoon]

Brodin? Oh yeah, the guy the Wild kept instead of Haula and Tuch.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Brodin? Oh yeah, the guy the Wild kept instead of Haula and Tuch.

RIP the dream.

 

[2Pair]

Brodin? Oh yeah, the guy the Wild kept instead of Haula and Tuch.

Haula was never going to be part of that equation

 

[Wild11MN]

Haula was never going to be part of that equation

Yup. Haula was probably gone no matter what.

 

[TaLoN]

 

[TaLoN]

 

[GuerinUp]

Anyone else feel like hes been a little off so far this season?

 

[TaLoN]

Anyone else feel like hes been a little off so far this season?

Not really, no.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Anyone else feel like hes been a little off so far this season?

Aside from LA’s 2nd goal in the first game, no.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Anyone else feel like hes been a little off so far this season?

It took him a couple periods to get his legs under him but I thought he looked awesome on Saturday

 

[ThatGuy22]

Anyone else feel like hes been a little off so far this season?

Beyond getting caught flat footed on that Carter rush, he's been his normal self.