Player Discussion Ryan Suter
- Thread starter Digitalbooya
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I was actually thinking about starting one soon, specifically referencing this article from a while back.
Strong offense, leaky defense -- How should the Wild deploy...
Some of the graphics they used:
This is from about three weeks ago now, but basically, he's been excellent offensive this year and terrible defensively. It's not just the Dumba effect either.
Strong offense, leaky defense -- How should the Wild deploy...
Some of the graphics they used:
This is from about three weeks ago now, but basically, he's been excellent offensive this year and terrible defensively. It's not just the Dumba effect either.
I sure don't see him being "terrible" defensively. He has lost a half step, though. Don't know if it's permanent because of age/injury, or just that he lost the whole summer and most of training camp due to the Talos break. I guess we'll find out next year, assuming that he gets trough this year w/o reinjuring his foot.
Still think he plays too much, but with Dumba out there's not much to be done.
It would be interesting to see Brodin/Spurgeon back together again, and have Suter play with the RD du jour against lesser competition.
Still think he plays too much, but with Dumba out there's not much to be done.
It would be interesting to see Brodin/Spurgeon back together again, and have Suter play with the RD du jour against lesser competition.
It does seem like he gets caught on his heels this year more often than he used to. I'm not sure if that's age, the injury, or skating speed going up across the league. The moments that jump out are things like him getting blown away by McDavid... but everyone gets blown away by McDavid.
I don't think he's been bad by any means, but it does seem like his skating's been effected. Hopefully it's just adjustment period for him, or some kind of confirmation bias on my part. Offensively it doesn't seem like he's lost a beat.
I don't think he's been bad by any means, but it does seem like his skating's been effected. Hopefully it's just adjustment period for him, or some kind of confirmation bias on my part. Offensively it doesn't seem like he's lost a beat.
123TripleDoge
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- Nov 24, 2014
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Hopefully it's just missing out on summer training and not the new normal. Def a bit slower this year.
ThatGuy22
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- Oct 11, 2011
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I was actually thinking about starting one soon, specifically referencing this article from a while back.
Strong offense, leaky defense -- How should the Wild deploy...
Some of the graphics they used:
This is from about three weeks ago now, but basically, he's been excellent offensive this year and terrible defensively. It's not just the Dumba effect either.
How do we know? Now that Suter is with Spurgeon again, their numbers are excellent. The two worst xGA/60 pairings the Wild have assembled this year are Dumba-Suter and Dumba-Brodin. Dumba has the worst individual xGA/60 on the team.
At the point that article was written, Dumba and Suter had spent very few minutes away from each other, it's telling that the author (a long time Dumba apologist from his Hockey Wilderness days) only showed Suter's relative defense because Dumba's probably looked exactly the same.
Given Suter's numbers are improving exponentially game by game with Spurgeon, either Spurgeon is that good and anyone who suggests trading him should be drawn and quartered, or Dumba has a negative impact on team defense. (or most probably both).
ThatGuy22
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- Oct 11, 2011
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I guess I personally don't care if he "looks slow", if the results on the ice are good which they are. And since that article 3 weeks ago, every single number they showed has improved...
But that must be a coincidence.
The defense may have improved but his offensive numbers certainly have dried up: 1 assist since Dumba went down. I admit that I've had to miss more games than I've actually watched recently though, so I'm not sure what he's actually looked like on the ice.
You're right, Dumba certainly isn't helping the numbers. But the eye test has also shown that Suter hasn't fully returned to form after the injury, at least in my opinion.
As far as Spurgeon being that good... I'd also say yes. Do you have the numbers since Dumba went down? I'm curious.
ThatGuy22
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The raw numbers have tried up basically team wide, the expected numbers are still solid and his new partner is getting points. It's worth monitoring, but it's probably more a function of randomness and the ref giving the Wild like zero power plays the past month.
ThatGuy22
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- Oct 11, 2011
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I haven't found a site since extra skater went down that allows you to parse a season by date. But basically season long Suter and Spurgeon are running at their basically normal 60% xGF%, and Suters season long against numbers from that chart have have dropped a decent amount. They are still high, but it's only been 3 weeks with a christmas break since that article.
Or it could be that Suter needed the first month or two of the season to get into shape, and it tanked his stats so bad that there was nowhere to go but up.
That's the hope I suppose. Time will tell if he ever gets back to form. Not a lot of precedent to go on with his injury either.
Drawn, quartered, entrails pulled out and set on fire, scratch his car, and spit on his girlfriend.
Spurgeon is the best Dman on the team RIGHT now. Suter has been in all the years he has been here. I expect and hope that Suter has a couple of more years of dominance in him at the very least, and another 2-3 years of being a decent middle pairing guy. I can live with that. I just don't want to see a Heatley type decline, where he doesn't have any legs(or foot) left.
I can see, when Dumba comes back, that Suter/Duymba become the offensive D pair, and Spurgeon/Brodin the shutdown pair, especially against fast skating, elite forward lines. I can see him being like an aging Doug Harvey at the end of his career ...barely able to skate, but still a great passer, and a positionally perfect defender.
An ACL/MCL tear is about the same amount of recovery time after surgery if that helps.
Ankle injuries don't get better during the season, there just isn't the downtime for the rest/recovery it needs to get back to where it was prior to the injury. I don't think we'll see much more from him physically than what he is right now the rest of the season. He can adjust how he plays the game to somewhat cover the physical deficiencies. Which I think he has been doing by not being as involved in the o-zone game so he can cover his d-zone responsibilities and doesn't get hung out to dry.
Well the concern is more about the specific bone. Originally they said that if he played another sport, he may never be back to 100%. That's why you can't even compare it to a standard ankle break. There's just no real way to know if he'll permanently have physical limitations with it.
It's not really the bone that worries me, bones heal. It's the joint flexibility/stability (being in hockey skates should help), and muscle/conditioning loss from 3 months of not being able to put weight on the leg.
Just in recent memory he was beat out for an icing he should have won, a guy came in on Dubnyk from an angle because Suter didn’t have the footspeed to get to him, and he’s noticeably different in his play in the d-zone. Being bailed out by his teammates doesn’t change that he’s been an issue.
Yeah, i see that too. Plays that he would've made before he isn't, because he is just a tad slower. He always looked slow before, but in reality he was just pacing himself, and was slightly above average in foot speed, VG in overall skating, and terrific in adjustments. Now everything he does is slower, and he is having trouble adjusting his game to the new reality. I see it most when he is defending someone to the outside, in puck retrieval, and the first couple of steps when he has the puck. He is also slower getting to the puck carrier in the d zone.
Hope a healthy off season fixes all this. It's inevitable that he will slow down, though.
Kwik Trip milk w/ vitamin D for the bones, Monster Cheetah Spunk in a limited edition car battery for speed, he'll be back in no time. There's no way bees outlasts cheese.
My wife recently bought a bag of coffee that has "extra" caffeine and guarana in it, and this as accurate a description of the effects as I've come across. Especially the cup I poured after the pot had been on the burner all morning.
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