ORR2Sanderson2ORR
Bobby Orr Scores
Fair enough. I actually don't see JD or Jarmo ever letting Johansen go but if they ever made him available I'm sure you get a Kings Ransom in return.
Ryan Johansen
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Fair enough. I actually don't see JD or Jarmo ever letting Johansen go but if they ever made him available I'm sure you get a Kings Ransom in return.
Mayor Bee
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- Dec 29, 2008
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There's a story that in the weeks leading up to the 1973 draft, Montreal GM Sam Pollock wanted to make a move to get the #1 overall pick (Denis Potvin). He'd already vultured franchise players in the draft from the expansion teams by offering them a quick chance to improve their roster while never being able to contend, and the Islanders were an easy target.
So Pollock offered Isles' GM Bill Torrey a decent package of picks and players for #1 overall. Torrey declined. A few days later, Pollock increased the offer, which Torrey declined. A couple days later, Pollock increased the offer again. Finally, the night before the draft, Pollock made what's been described as a very generous offer. Torrey said he'd sleep on it.
Torrey slept on it, and woke up the next morning to take a walk. While walking, he was struck by something. Sam Pollock was the best GM in the league, and if Pollock was offering increasingly better and better packages to get #1 overall and Denis Potvin, then clearly Pollock regarded Potvin as a franchise defenseman with HOF potential. And Torrey also deduced that Pollock knew this, and that although the picks and players were definitely valuable, he regarded Potvin as more valuable than all of that.
Torrey rejected the last offer, drafted Potvin, and the defenseman became the backbone of a dynasty.
Now, what was in the Habs' package? No one's ever said, but we do know that on the morning of the draft, Montreal had picks #2, #9,#16, #17, #18, #21, and #22 overall, and were working on trades that would net them other first-rounders as well.
Really? So you're a representative of the Boston Bruins? Man do I hate fantasies phrased like this.
I've seen worse. It's not good, but there are good assets coming back in there. No reason for the Jackets to make a move.
Your way to much of a Homer.
Wait until the end of 2014 and see if you feel the same. This deal is pretty fair but like I said I wouldn't want to deal Johansen neither if I didn't have to.
Why would waiting to the end of the 2014 season mean anything? Also, why do we want to get rid of a 30-35 goal scorer who also happens to be good in all three zones for a play maker who is entering the last year of his deal and six years older? Also, Milano? Hell no.
On a side note, we're actually trying to leave a spot for one of our young forwards coming up, why do we want to add more to the mix along with another 3rd line player? We have 3rd line forwards coming out the ass.
Without Krejci signed for another 5 years it makes no sense at all. I'd be happy if the Jackets were talking to the Bruins about Krejci, but certainly not for Johansen and we'd have to have him under contract to offer anything of real value back.
This is definitely a trojan horse deal and lopsided toward the Bruins.
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
Fair value for Ryan Johansen would be one of the following options:
1. A player of similar skill and age. Neither Boston, nor Toronto can divvy this out..
2. A package of players that can help the Jackets immediately, while not overwhelming them with ugly contracts. These players would also have to fit into our "brick by brick" scheme that we're building towards. For Boston, I would ask for no less than Dougie Hamilton or Patrice Bergeron, along with a first round pick and another depth piece - for argument's sake, Reilly Smith. For Toronto, that means Morgan Rielly, a first round pick, and one other piece .... I don't think they have that piece.
3. A package of prospects and picks. Neither Toronto or Boston can give us enough in that department, because I think it would have to be near NHL ready prospects that can develop into a similar role to that of Johansen. Neither team has that good a prospect pool.
Discussions are barely getting rolling. Ryan Johansen isn't going to be traded because he didn't agree to a deal right off the bat. That's how negotiations work. If someone wants to sign him to an offer sheet, then so be it ... I think the fact that Jarmo has publicly said he will match any offer gives you an idea of his much it would take to pry Johansen away from this team. He is the centerpiece of our offense for the next decade to come.
Move along, poachers.
1. A player of similar skill and age. Neither Boston, nor Toronto can divvy this out..
2. A package of players that can help the Jackets immediately, while not overwhelming them with ugly contracts. These players would also have to fit into our "brick by brick" scheme that we're building towards. For Boston, I would ask for no less than Dougie Hamilton or Patrice Bergeron, along with a first round pick and another depth piece - for argument's sake, Reilly Smith. For Toronto, that means Morgan Rielly, a first round pick, and one other piece .... I don't think they have that piece.
3. A package of prospects and picks. Neither Toronto or Boston can give us enough in that department, because I think it would have to be near NHL ready prospects that can develop into a similar role to that of Johansen. Neither team has that good a prospect pool.
Discussions are barely getting rolling. Ryan Johansen isn't going to be traded because he didn't agree to a deal right off the bat. That's how negotiations work. If someone wants to sign him to an offer sheet, then so be it ... I think the fact that Jarmo has publicly said he will match any offer gives you an idea of his much it would take to pry Johansen away from this team. He is the centerpiece of our offense for the next decade to come.
Move along, poachers.
Also the fact that Jarmo basically hung up the phone at the mention of Johansen for any of the top 3 picks speaks volumes for how much he means to the franchise.
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
Exactly. And, any of the three players he could have had, would be better than any prospect/pick Boston or Toronto could offer. Case closed.
SuperGenius
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Nanabijou
Booooooooooone
Don't have any inside info, but barring an offer sheet, the next pressure point won't occur until training camp gets close. Just like the lockout negotiations, I don't see any movement until a pressure point is reached.
Cyclones Rock
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- Jun 12, 2008
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I'm hoping the Johansen won't give in to a bridge and signs for 5 or 6 years at far more money than he would have signed for in February. JK needs to get jolted into reality regarding the worth of younger players who aren't UFA eligible.
Jarmo hasn't demonstrated much in the contract negotiating strategy department in dealing with up and coming players in the final year of their ELCs. Bob was having a stellar season on his way to his Vezina in 12-13 and it was getting quite obvious that Johansen was the real deal midway through 13-14. I am going to assume that at least one of these players could have been extended for a longer term deal for a lower salary than what one got and the other ultimately will get had their representatives been offered a reasonable deal during the course of their final year on their ELCs. While most RFA players only warrant two year bridge deals, it's pretty clear that Bob and Johansen aren't your average RFA bears. The play of each of these players early into the final year of each's ELC clearly justified the risk of a term of contract beyond a two year bridge. Would anyone really be sweating Bob at $4 million per year for 4 more years right now?
Jarmo had no problem signing a damaged goods player (Horton) to a long term contract nor did he have an issue with signing a plug (Boll) to a completely unneeded 3 year deal. His stubborn posture regarding RFA bridge deals with top players hasn't yielded any positive benefits for the team yet.
May Jarmo wake up and smell the roses before he misses another opportunity to extend a key player during the 2nd or 3rd year of his ELC. He's 0-2 so far.
Jarmo hasn't demonstrated much in the contract negotiating strategy department in dealing with up and coming players in the final year of their ELCs. Bob was having a stellar season on his way to his Vezina in 12-13 and it was getting quite obvious that Johansen was the real deal midway through 13-14. I am going to assume that at least one of these players could have been extended for a longer term deal for a lower salary than what one got and the other ultimately will get had their representatives been offered a reasonable deal during the course of their final year on their ELCs. While most RFA players only warrant two year bridge deals, it's pretty clear that Bob and Johansen aren't your average RFA bears. The play of each of these players early into the final year of each's ELC clearly justified the risk of a term of contract beyond a two year bridge. Would anyone really be sweating Bob at $4 million per year for 4 more years right now?
Jarmo had no problem signing a damaged goods player (Horton) to a long term contract nor did he have an issue with signing a plug (Boll) to a completely unneeded 3 year deal. His stubborn posture regarding RFA bridge deals with top players hasn't yielded any positive benefits for the team yet.
May Jarmo wake up and smell the roses before he misses another opportunity to extend a key player during the 2nd or 3rd year of his ELC. He's 0-2 so far.
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EspenK
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I don't necessarily disagree but there is some advantage to the 2 year term which gives the team another opportunity at extending while the player is still an RFA. Jarmo's apparent strategy is to delay the long term commitment for as long as possible.
Now if Joey had put up three good to great seasons rather than one, then I'm guessing a long term now would not be an issue.
That and you know what Horton is, he's not gonna change. Johansen is young and he doesn't want to throw a big contract at him and let him get complacent and entitled. Our front office knows what Johansen can become and this is one way they can push him
CBJ Tiffin
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EspenK
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Well if he wants to play in the NHL he isn't going anywhere for the next 3 years.
CBJ Tiffin
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Would it be unheard of for him to bide his time until his bridge expires, then say - remember how you treated me in 2014? Buh-bye.
I don't like nor do I understand the reasoning with playing hardball with your offensive cornerstone. Yeah, you own him for the foreseeable future, but what about when his UFA time comes?
I think there's a lot of hindsight bias going on here. That said, I would have supported a long term deal at $4m for Johansen back in midseason. That's not that much of a risk.
Mayor Bee
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Are you? Isn't one of the benefits of the bridge deals for teams to get ultimately more term out of players, by signing them right up to the end of RFA status and then offering a long term deal that carries them well into their primes?
I'm not convinced performance has much impact on the thought process here (yeah, like I know). I'm imagining it's more about massaging term. Hopefully there will be a happy ending.
Exactly. If we make it to the ECF in the next two years it'll be because of him. And you better believe he'll get what hes worth. Columbus would go nuts if we make it that far.
Not the first time johansen has come off overly entitled (calling the bridge offer disrespectful and a slap in the face)… he has an attitude problem that people ignored because he was putting up 30 goals in a contract year. By practically demanding a contract until his RFA years end, he has made his intentions clear enough. Maybe he changes his mind during the next 4 years and falls in love with ohio, maybe not.
If a good trade comes along I'd take it based on his attitude … not some dinky offer of a 1st and mediocre prospect + clarke macarthur… but a trade for a comparable player signed long term. someone (skill-wise) like ROR, pavelski, mackinnon, RNH, or a LW like JVR, Benn - someone who can fill the offensive gap while also under 30 and signed 4+ years. Otherwise he can see if davidson will let him cry his way out like turris (doubt it) … or he can just play his RFA years for CBJ.
In the mean time, maybe dubie and JJ can break him down and re-build him as a young man who is not full of himself….
If a good trade comes along I'd take it based on his attitude … not some dinky offer of a 1st and mediocre prospect + clarke macarthur… but a trade for a comparable player signed long term. someone (skill-wise) like ROR, pavelski, mackinnon, RNH, or a LW like JVR, Benn - someone who can fill the offensive gap while also under 30 and signed 4+ years. Otherwise he can see if davidson will let him cry his way out like turris (doubt it) … or he can just play his RFA years for CBJ.
In the mean time, maybe dubie and JJ can break him down and re-build him as a young man who is not full of himself….
I'll admit that I'm a fairly new hockey fan, so I'm not sure about the entitled stuff as prior to the recent article/quotes, (and Springfield which I really think he learned from and has moved past), as I can't remember hearing anything that seems that way. If you know where I could read/see that, I'd love to be able to. From the interviews I've seen and from what people who've met him have said, he's seems like a good guy. Watching some of the interviews in the locker room, it definitely seems like his teammates like him.
Also, not trying to argue with you, but I do not remember anywhere that he said he wanted a four-year deal. He said he didn't want a bridge, but nothing about 4 years. Portzline said he wanted "at least a four year deal," not Johansen. I also have trouble believing that he actually wants to leave, unless things are worse behind the scenes than fans are aware of. If you watch the video of him being drafted, in his interview, they discuss how he actually told the interviewer the night before that he wanted to go to Columbus, so I'm really not sure about him wanting out, but that's just the impression I get; could easily be wrong.
And if I am wrong, I love your last line and would be ecstatic to see it happen.
That is the way almost every negotation goes in every sport. We just don't hear about it, because most players are smart enough to not do what Johansen did. They let their agent do the negotiating and the talking. 1, because they know what they are doing. 2, because that is what they pay them for.
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