Ryan Hartman

[Breeze 44]

Man it sure looks like this thread is full of people that have never seen Hartman play. I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised after watching a few games.

That is the truth right there. I'm happy to have him, going to miss Simmer but this trade deadline might have opened Simmer eyes to his real value at this point in his career.

 

[Rebels57]

Man it sure looks like this thread is full of people that have never seen Hartman play. I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised after watching a few games.

We've all seen Laughton play

 

[TheKingPin]

We've all seen Laughton play

Haha he’s not Laughton

 

[TheKingPin]

Anyone see the memes of Hartman being photogenic? I saw a pic on Facebook where’s he’s getting punched in the face and looks like a photo shoot haha

 

[deadhead]

We don't need a top 6 guy on the third line (unless it's a young, cost controlled prospect like Frost!).
We need a 3rd line guy who's a solid point producer and not a liability on defense.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Echoing sentiments that I hope fans give him a chance before shoehorning him into the whipping boy role before he even sets foot on the ice for this team, but I'm at least 77.35% positive the latter has already happened.

 

[flyersjim73]

We've all seen Laughton play

Gotta hand it to you Rebel, when you commit to something, you go all in.

 

[TCTC]

I wonder if people would feel the same way if we had traded for Burakovsky instead. A player from the same draft who has basically produced at the same rate.

 

[Starat327]

That's a reasonable expectation, though Raffl is very good defensively and that's not the book on Hartman.

Conversely, Raffl has hands of stone dipped in concrete, and Hartman appears to have at least a serviceable pair of mitts. I'd say they are similar players but one has more offensive flair and the other is better defensively. Which you prefer is entirely dependent on what you want from the position. I'm ok with a little bit of an offensive threat in the lower lines.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

This kid is gonna get so much hate just because of circumstances he was brought in. Just like fat schenn did in his heyday.

 

[flyersfan187]

I am curious to see what his next contract will be. A cost controlled bottom six guy that is solid wouldn't be bad to have. I do think that Raffl will not be back though and I also don't see Hartman blocking any of the youth.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

I am curious to see what his next contract will be. A cost controlled bottom six guy that is solid wouldn't be bad to have. I do think that Raffl will not be back though and I also don't see Hartman blocking any of the youth.

I don't care if either of them stays, what I care about is not to make the same mistakes that lead us here. Instead I want to be at the point where we unload some insignificant depth players for a rentals with nothing but Stanley cup on our minds.

 

[WheresMySnare]

Man it sure looks like this thread is full of people that have never seen Hartman play. I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised after watching a few games.

Amen brother. All the hot takes are quite entertaining though

 

[deadhead]

Hartman isn't some "insignificant depth player" - he's a legitimate 3rd line forward on a top team.
Those aren't as easy to find as some think:

Let's look at forwards taken between 20-32 since 2010 (what we optimistically could have hoped for Simmonds):

2010: #20 Beau Bennett 200g 20-44 64; #21 Riley Sheahan 406g 89-107 196; #24 Kevin Hayes 361g 87-129 216;
#25 Quinton Howden 97g 10-7 17; #26 Kuznetsov 397g 96-225 321; #28 Charlie Coyle 480g 91-151 242; #29 Emerson Etem 173g 22-24 46, #30 Brock Nelson 459g 118-111 229 - [hit on 5 of 8]
2011: #21 Stefan Noeson 145g 23-21 44; #22 Tyler Biggs; #24 Matt Puempel 79g 10-5 15; #26 Philip Danault 249g 36-81 117; #27 Namestnikov 340g 63-86 149; #28 Zach Phillips; #29 Niklas Jensen 31g 3-3 6; #30 Rickard Rakell 363g 105-119 224 [hit on 3 of 8]
2012: #20 Laughton 252g 27-42 69; #21 Mark Jankowski 132g 27-23 50; #26 Brendan Guance 117g 6-9 15; #27 Hendrik Samuelsson 3g 0-0 0; #29 Stefan Mantteau 64g 3-4 7; #30 Tanner Pearson 369g 78-80 158 [hit on 1 of 6]
2013: #20 Anthony Mantha 198g 58-59 117; #21 Federick Gauthier 90g 6-11 17; #22 Emile Poirier 8g 01 1; #23 Burakovsky 309g 58-81 139; #24 Hunter Shinkaruk 15g 2-2 4; #25 Michael McCarron 69g 2-6 8; #27 Marko Dano 138g 19-25 44; #28 Morgan Klimchuk 1g; #29 Jason Dickinson 85g 8-13 21; #30 HARTMAN 226g 40-43 83 [hit on 2 of 9]
2014: #20 Nick Schmaltz 179g 34-71 105; #21 Robby Fabbri 150g 30-41 71; #22 Kapanen 117g 27-23 50; #23 Conner Bleackley; #24 Jared McCann 224g 30-44 74; #25 Pastrnak 310g 125-144 269; #26 Nikita Scherbak; #27 Nikolay Goldobin 115g 19-26 45; #28 Ho-Sang 53g 7-17 24; #29 Adrian Kempe 167g 27-37 64; #30 John Quenville 30g 1-3 4 [hit on 5 of 11]

16 of 42 picks have been better than Hartman.
So he's actually lived up to reasonable expectations of a #30 pick.

 

[wankstifier]

I keep hearing this "upside" line about Hartman and I don't quite get it. He is 24. He likely is what he is at this point. You're not getting 20 goals 40 points out of this guy. He isn't skilled enough.

Points upside depends on TOI and quality of line mates.

Hartman’s already a ~30 point player with ~13 minutes per game and little PP time. If he were deployed on the 1st line and given a PP1 role, it’s likely that he’s collect an extra 10 points.

As a 3/4 line player, Hartman’s production is about as good as it gets without game breaking talent or extremely high quality line mates.

Now, does Hartman have as much value as a late 1st? I’d argue yes in this case. Hartman upside is probably the best outcome for a player selected outside of the top 15 or so picks. The Flyers are swimming in prospects that probably won’t be as good Hartman. Their years of control are nice, but they aren’t really making that much less than Hartman will be. And, given the uncertainty of their production the surplus value in quality of play versus cost isn’t going to be significantly higher than what Hartman’s worth.

 

[Magua]

The Flyers use of a late 1st round pick, at least before the unknown of a regime change, has a higher than normal chance to yield a better player than Hartman. At least the odds are in their favor. I always dislike when picks get equates to a % chance at X player. Scouting is far more complex than a lottery ticket.

But we don’t have to use a pick. It’s a liquid asset. Want to turn around and package a 1st or 2nd with other assets to get a better player than Hartman? It’s an available option. Liquid assets 4 life.

 

[deadhead]

On the other hand we have Hartman, we may or may not be able to deal for a better player.
And it probably wasn't Hartman or a 1st, but Hartman or a late 2nd (#55 or so). Doubt anyone offered more than a 2nd and 3rd rd pick for Simmonds, given what other players garnered.
So even if you add the additional value (3rd instead of 3rd/4th) we're talking #45-50 "value" instead of Hartman.

There's something to be said for filling up your roster, eliminating obvious holes, then go into June and see if you can upgrade some of your players - and the player you're upgrading is either used as part of a trade or moved down the lineup, thus strengthening two spots.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Man it sure looks like this thread is full of people that have never seen Hartman play. I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised after watching a few games.

I’ll admit I haven’t seen him a ton since his 2 WJCs, where he was easy to love playing for USA. So I’m not sure what happened to him in Nashville.

But I love players who play his style & the Flyers don’t have enough. Especially without Simmonds. So I’m happy to have him. It’s not like he can’t play the game. Whether he can ever hit 19 goals again, we’ll see.

 

[baudib1]

Liquid assets 4 life.

TWSS

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Anyone see the memes of Hartman being photogenic? I saw a pic on Facebook where’s he’s getting punched in the face and looks like a photo shoot haha

No, but I watched an interview with him from practice a couple hours ago & laughed to myself thinking how quickly female fans are going to be on board. I guess it’s fair, since we have Taryn.

 

[TheKingPin]

 

[TheKingPin]

My first ever posted pic!

 

[FLYguy3911]

Like we have seen with JVR this year, you have to be careful projecting 5v5 production from one team to another. Chicago and Nashville are/were great 5v5 teams. This team? Not so much. Perhaps that changes under a new coach, but we aren't there yet.

 

[General Joseph]

really excited we got a SOLID player in this deal , our club needs some skill and EDGE . I wish Simmer all the best and hope he gets another shot at Lord Stanleys cup ! Fans in Philly will like our new lad Hartman !

 

[deadhead]

Like we have seen with JVR this year, you have to be careful projecting 5v5 production from one team to another. Chicago and Nashville are/were great 5v5 teams. This team? Not so much. Perhaps that changes under a new coach, but we aren't there yet.

Hartman was probably playing with Schmaltz and Kero/Kruger in Chicago his rookie season, then 3rd/4th line his second season, with guys like Hinostroza, Sharp, and Hayden.
In Nashville he bounced around, but Sissons, Bonino, Smith and Watson had similar ES minutes - again a 3rd/4th line forward matched up with so-so linemates.

So while the top 2 lines may have been good 5x5 on these teams, the guys Hartman played with weren't special.
Put him with Frost next year and he could see a jump in production b/c Frost will probably be the best center he's played with for an extended period.