Ryan Hartman

[CapnZin]

My comparison of Hartman is that he’s like NAK, but with more upside. Both are agitators, unafraid to go to the dirty areas, will stick themselves in front of the net, and will drop the gloves.

I can see Hartman being a 10-15 player which isn’t a bad add. At the most, my expectation if he really comes out flying would be 20-20. That’s fine by me for someone who plays a heavy game and for someone who is cheap, will be cheap, and young. NAK, to me, seems like a 10-10 player in the NHL which is fine to me for a 4th Line player. Hartman seems to be a 3A/B type player.

I’m not upset with the trade, however, I thought we could get a better pick

 

[Rebels57]

My comparison of Hartman is that he’s like NAK, but with more upside. Both are agitators, unafraid to go to the dirty areas, will stick themselves in front of the net, and will drop the gloves.

I can see Hartman being a 10-15 player which isn’t a bad add. At the most, my expectation if he really comes out flying would be 20-20. That’s fine by me for someone who plays a heavy game and for someone who is cheap, will be cheap, and young. NAK, to me, seems like a 10-10 player in the NHL which is fine to me for a 4th Line player. Hartman seems to be a 3A/B type player.

I’m not upset with the trade, however, I thought we could get a better pick

I keep hearing this "upside" line about Hartman and I don't quite get it. He is 24. He likely is what he is at this point. You're not getting 20 goals 40 points out of this guy. He isn't skilled enough.

 

[StoneHands]

I keep hearing this "upside" line about Hartman and I don't quite get it. He is 24. He likely is what he is at this point. You're not getting 20 goals 40 points out of this guy. He isn't skilled enough.

I'm not saying Hartman is going to be a star but haven't we learned anything by assuming players peak by 24? We used to have a 24 year old who never topped 40 points and everyone outside of Philly said he didn't have offensive upside because he lacked the skill necessary to put up numbers. Hartman had 19 goals as a rookie, there's no reason to think he can't be a 20-20 guy as some point and even if he's in the mid 30s that's fine for a 3rd liner.

He's already an upgrade over Simmonds at ES. Despite playing way fewer minutes, he actually has more ES points during his first 3 NHL seasons than Simmonds does over the last 3 years and the two are heading in the opposite direction of their primes.

 

[SnS]

Can’t wait for Gordon to fall in love with him and have him right where Simmonds was on the PP and on the top line flanking G.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I keep hearing this "upside" line about Hartman and I don't quite get it. He is 24. He likely is what he is at this point. You're not getting 20 goals 40 points out of this guy. He isn't skilled enough.

Upside is just a catch-all that doesn't mean anything anymore. It's most often an expression of draft position (Puljujarvi), a function of a relatively small pro sample size (Hartman), or a compliment to someone who followed a perceived similar path (Alex Barré-Boulet).

None of that means I have a problem with the specific instance you quoted. Hitting a onetime ceiling of ~40 Points if everything breaks well and he gets some PP2 time is more optimistic than I am, but it's not like it's nuts. I'd be a lot more comfortable hoping for low 30s assuming a full season, especially given that Nashville is a better scoring 5v5 team than the Flyers.

 

[Garbage Goal]

My comparison of Hartman is that he’s like NAK, but with more upside. Both are agitators, unafraid to go to the dirty areas, will stick themselves in front of the net, and will drop the gloves.

I can see Hartman being a 10-15 player which isn’t a bad add. At the most, my expectation if he really comes out flying would be 20-20. That’s fine by me for someone who plays a heavy game and for someone who is cheap, will be cheap, and young. NAK, to me, seems like a 10-10 player in the NHL which is fine to me for a 4th Line player. Hartman seems to be a 3A/B type player.

I’m not upset with the trade, however, I thought we could get a better pick

He already is a 10-15 player. Only has six less than Simmonds.

 

[Rebels57]

I'm not saying Hartman is going to be a star but haven't we learned anything by assuming players peak by 24? We used to have a 24 year old who never topped 40 points and everyone outside of Philly said he didn't have offensive upside because he lacked the skill necessary to put up numbers. Hartman had 19 goals as a rookie, there's no reason to think he can't be a 20-20 guy here as a 3rd liner.

Couturier was one of the top prospects of his draft. Skill was never in question. His usage prevented him from being able to produce. Everyone with half a brain knew that.

Hartman is not going to play above Konecny or Voracek here and there are very few 3rd liners scoring 20 goals nowadays; Hartman aint gonna be one of them.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

You know what I could see Hartman as? A replacement for Raffl. Great 3rd/4th line guy who can put up points, has speed, physicality and agitation.

 

[Rebels57]

Upside is just a catch-all that doesn't mean anything anymore. It's most often an expression of draft position (Puljujarvi), a function of a relatively small pro sample size (Hartman), or a compliment to someone who followed a perceived similar path (Alex Barré-Boulet).

None of that means I have a problem with the specific instance you quoted. Hitting a onetime ceiling of ~40 Points if everything breaks well and he gets some PP2 time is more optimistic than I am, but it's not like it's nuts. I'd be a lot more comfortable hoping for low 30s assuming a full season, especially given that Nashville is a better scoring 5v5 team than the Flyers.

If Ryan Hartman ends up on PP2 over Patrick, Lindblom, or Konecny, just shoot me.

 

[Rebels57]

You know what I could see Hartman as? A replacement for Raffl. Great 3rd/4th line guy who can put up points, has speed, physicality and agitation.

That's a reasonable expectation, though Raffl is very good defensively and that's not the book on Hartman.

 

[CapnZin]

I keep hearing this "upside" line about Hartman and I don't quite get it. He is 24. He likely is what he is at this point. You're not getting 20 goals 40 points out of this guy. He isn't skilled enough.

I said that 20-20-40 was if he came out in a hot streak and kept it up. I don’t think he becomes that, but with correct usage there isn’t any reason to doubt a 30 point M6 checking F.

Also, 24 is still young. Couturier changed his game around 4 some years into his career. Nolan Patrick will, most likely, do the same too. I’m not saying Hartman is the next thing to be excited about, but I don’t understand the negativity surrounding the deal. Most of the prospects and players in the typical “Simmonds deal” on here were worse than the player Hartman is now. The only bothersome aspect of the trade was the pick which will most likely be a 3rd anyway. He’s a good B6/M6 forward who plays a hard game. I think that’s something we all like too. Our team is slow, Hartman is not. Our team is somewhat soft, Hartman is not (although the trade off of Simmer to Hartman doesn’t favor that argument), but still.

Just give Hartman a chance. Hopefully we can sign him to a 1-2 year deal with an AAV around 1.5-2mil.

 

[Rebels57]

I said that 20-20-40 was if he came out in a hot streak and kept it up. I don’t think he becomes that, but with correct usage there isn’t any reason to doubt a 30 point M6 checking F.

Also, 24 is still young. Couturier changed his game around 4 some years into his career. Nolan Patrick will, most likely, do the same too. I’m not saying Hartman is the next thing to be excited about, but I don’t understand the negativity surrounding the deal. Most of the prospects and players in the typical “Simmonds deal” on here were worse than the player Hartman is now. The only bothersome aspect of the trade was the pick which will most likely be a 3rd anyway. He’s a good B6/M6 forward who plays a hard game. I think that’s something we all like too. Our team is slow, Hartman is not. Our team is somewhat soft, Hartman is not (although the trade off of Simmer to Hartman doesn’t favor that argument), but still.

Just give Hartman a chance. Hopefully we can sign him to a 1-2 year deal with an AAV around 1.5-2mil.

I'm just trying to temper your expectations. If Hartman scores 20-20 here i'll buy his jersey. I'm really confident that won't happen lol.

 

[Ruck Over]

If Ryan Hartman ends up on PP2 over Patrick, Lindblom, or Konecny, just shoot me.

I'd probably take him over Provorov. But really, just wanted to interject in the incorrect thread that Sanheim should be the PP QB of the 2nd unit.

 

[Rebels57]

I'd probably take him over Provorov. But really, just wanted to interject in the incorrect thread that Sanheim should be the PP QB of the 2nd unit.

Preach on brother.

 

[CapnZin]

I'm just trying to temper your expectations. If Hartman scores 20-20 here i'll buy his jersey. I'm really confident that won't happen lol.

Lol... I’m with you on that. My expectations aren’t really high tbh. I’m expecting a 10/15-15 player. He will definitely slot in on PP2. I just wonder if he can PK.

 

[Rebels57]

Lol... I’m with you on that. My expectations aren’t really high tbh. I’m expecting a 10/15-15 player. He will definitely slot in on PP2. I just wonder if he can PK.

10-15, 20-30 points is a safe expectation. Doesn't PK.

 

[CutOnDime97]

From what I remember Hartman has a bit of speed which will be great for the 3rd line. Could be wrong as I haven't seen much of him lately.

 

[TCTC]

y'all are gonna love Hartman. will drop the gloves, will draw and take his share of penalties, and wouldn't surprise me if he became a solid 20 goal scorer for you if he gets top 6 minutes.








Ryan Hartman Undresses Defender Then Dekes Out Malcolm Subban

Lol that first clip is great. I like him already.

 

[TheKingPin]

If he scores 20 goals and 20 assists we won this trade and he should be locked long term. Having that type of guy on the 3rd line is what you’ll need in the playoffs. I think he could do it with Frost and JVR.

 

[deadhead]

Hartman is our 8th forward (after JVR and tied with Laughton).
He'll be our ninth forward next year (with Frost added to the roster).
If Hartman can put up 30 ES points playing 12 minutes a night that's solid production, few teams go that deep.

 

[Tripod]

10-15, 20-30 points is a safe expectation. Doesn't PK.

Yeah he is on pace for 26 points this year, and has posted 31 the last 2 years. So 25-30 is the range to meet expectations.

But he only has 3 career PP points so this points are all coming at ES which is good. We have replaced Simmonds ES points with a cheaper, faster player who plays with an edge. Simmonds PP points will need to be replaced by someone else which most wanted anyways.

The downside of this deal, is there is no upside. We got a Simmonds replacement at ES and nothing more or less. To me, he is what most have expected NAK to be, but he is already there. And while some say Hartman is 24, NAK turns 23 in May.

But in the end, let's go find a top 6 guy to push Hartman down a line for next year and we can actually ice a very good 4th line.

 

[Rebels57]

Yeah he is on pace for 26 points this year, and has posted 31 the last 2 years. So 25-30 is the range to meet expectations.

But he only has 3 career PP points so this points are all coming at ES which is good. We have replaced Simmonds ES points with a cheaper, faster player who plays with an edge. Simmonds PP points will need to be replaced by someone else which most wanted anyways.

The downside of this deal, is there is no upside. We got a Simmonds replacement at ES and nothing more or less. To me, he is what most have expected NAK to be, but he is already there. And while some say Hartman is 24, NAK turns 23 in May.

But in the end, let's go find a top 6 guy to push Hartman down a line for next year and we can actually ice a very good 4th line.

Good take. Very reasonable.

 

[King Weber]

here's the twitter version of the second streamable clip I meant to post earlier that for some reason didn't work:

 

[Tripod]

Also as a reminder, Hartman had 29 ES points last year. That puts him in 39th place for RW'ers. This year, he is on pace for 26ES points and is in 47th place. So "technically" he has been producing as a mid to high end 2nd liner while playing on the 3rd line.

Or to look at another example, lots of people wished we had been in on Nino had we known he was available. Well Nino has 25 ES points. So a 5 point difference this year with 20 games left. Nino makes 5 million, Hartman 1 million.

Or look at Silfverberg who some wanted to go after as a UFA and pay him 5 million. He has 15 ES points in 54 games.

Oh...Laine has 22 ES points this year.

Just wanted to show that at ES, he produces well given where he plays in a lineup and given how cheap he is and will be.

 

[flyersjim73]

Man it sure looks like this thread is full of people that have never seen Hartman play. I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised after watching a few games.