Rumor: Rumours & Proposals Thread | Looking Ahead, Navigating a $81.5M Landscape

[DerpMorg]

Legit top pairing D (like far superior than what the Oilers currently have?). Who?

Jones, Sergachev, McDonagh, Hamilton, Hanifin are all better than what we have now and were traded in the past five years.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Legit top pairing D (like far superior than what the Oilers currently have?). Who?

Hamilton, McDonagh, Subban, Weber, Trouba, Jones, Muzzin off the top of my head. All of those guys are at least better than our defense.

 

[Oilhawks]

Funny that someone mentioned Chris Tanev and suggested he provides offense. Look at his career stats. In 10 NHL seasons he's managed to hit the net under 400 times. He averages less than 40 shots on goal per season.

He is perhaps the most one dimensional defenseman in the entire league. It's difficult for players like this to look effective on teams that are poor at generating consistent offense. He certainly doesn't do much to contribute in that regard.

No kidding. Chris Tanev as a Norris caliber D is like saying Johnny Gaudreau should be a Selke candidate.

 

[CycloneSweep]

You don't even need hard shots anymore, you need guys that can get it on net. Look at that Werenski goal last night, he barely put anything on it, but it was on target. Most of our guys can't even manage that.

Benning is probably our best defender at putting the puck on net as well. Hell even with Sekeras shin killing ways, it was effective in breaking up the defense at least. Our guys shoot it high and wide or dead freaking center on the goalie with such little power you can't even get a rebound. And even if it suprisingly ends in a rebound, we don't have a forward there for a rebound cause they have learned it's pointless to be in position for one

 

[gordonhught]

Hamilton, McDonagh, Subban, Weber, Trouba, Jones, Muzzin off the top of my head. All of those guys are at least better than our defense.

Subban? They can't give that guy away. He sucks. Chelios could come out of retirement and play better than Subban.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Subban? They can't give that guy away. He sucks. Chelios could come out of retirement and play better than Subban.

The first time he was traded he was still extremely good. He has gotten worse since but the question was the last 5-7 years.

 

[gordonhught]

The first time he was traded he was still extremely good. He has gotten worse since but the question was the last 5-7 years.

Ok. I take my comment back.

 

[FlameChampion]

You don't even need hard shots anymore, you need guys that can get it on net. Look at that Werenski goal last night, he barely put anything on it, but it was on target. Most of our guys can't even manage that.

Thats the big problem with Nurse, Larsson and Russell. Larsson and Russell in particular have no creativity with the puck or ability to get a simple shot on net.

 

[Little Fury]

The thing with moving Benning and Russell is that our bottom pairing isn't costing us games. Improving our bottom pairing really doesn't improve the team all that much. The issue lies with our top 4. Bear helped but Nurse, Klefbom and Larsson are proven to not get it done. No one is saying just throw those guys away either

The guy I'm arguing with is.

Anyway, I don't believe this D group has "proven"anything one way or another since the last time we had a season where one top 4 D didn't miss a big chunk of time was 2016-17.

 

[CupofOil]

Hamilton, McDonagh, Subban, Weber, Trouba, Jones, Muzzin off the top of my head. All of those guys are at least better than our defense.

As I added to my previous post after you quoted it....

Hamilton struggled in Calgary relative to what he is now, that's why he was available and there was apparently some off the ice issues going back to Boston.

Jones was dealt when he was well down the depth chart in Nashville and Johansen was very highly regarded at the time.

Subban was dealt for a #1 Dman and as a salary dump the 2nd time.

Trouba only wanted to play in New York and I'm not convinced that he's all that good.

Karlsson was damaged goods, aging and a pending UFA.

The one they had a shot at and looks like they missed the boat was Hamilton but as I mentioned, there were issues with him and I'm not sure he would succeeded here with the lack of support.

In a market like Edmonton and with the lack of tradeable assets they have plus lack of cap flexibility, the only real way they get a #1 Dman is to develop one.
If they could package up a bunch of assets to get one and sign that player long term, I'm all for it but it seems highly unrealistic.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

The guy I'm arguing with is.

Anyway, I don't believe this D group has "proven"anything one way or another since the last time we had a season where one top 4 D didn't miss a big chunk of time was 2016-17.

at least three people in this thread have literally said "get rid of Klefbom/Nurse". Hell yes people are saying throw these guys away.

Trading both of your top 4 LD in one offseason with absolutely no plan to replace them is a recipe for a high pick in 20-21. If people want McDavid to demand a trade, that's a hell of a way to do it.

 

[CycloneSweep]

The guy I'm arguing with is.

Anyway, I don't believe this D group has "proven"anything one way or another since the last time we had a season where one top 4 D didn't miss a big chunk of time was 2016-17.

Our defense was much better than though. Larsson didn't have back issues, we had Sekera, Russell was better and Klefbom had less injuries too. Our defense now is a shadow of that season. If also say that the d as a whole being bottom 5 for 3 years straight is what I'd consider proving to be bad.

 

[Little Fury]

Larsson? Come on, why would the Jets bother with that?
Also, who plays defense for the Oilers in this scenario? If you say Broberg or Bouchard could take those tough minutes, I might just rage a little bit.

It's not going to be Larsson if he's on the IR so probably Bear gets the call.

I'm all for the Oilers dealing any of the Dmen but what's the point if they aren't improving the already shaky defense?
Package Klefbom or Nurse+1st (14th or 15th overall)+ for a real live Dman who can anchor a top pairing. Who that is I have no idea but any other type of trade seems kind of pointless or is arranging deck chairs at the very best.

If you're dealing Larsson it's because you don't have confidence he'll be the player he was ever again. If you're dealing Nurse it's to get out from under a potentially crushing cap number in two years for a guy who is what he is. Otherwise, there's no urgency to do much but clear the deck on the bottom end.

 

[CupofOil]

It's not going to be Larsson if he's on the IR so probably Bear gets the call.



If you're dealing Larsson it's because you don't have confidence he'll be the player he was ever again. If you're dealing Nurse it's to get out from under a potentially crushing cap number in two years for a guy who is what he is. Otherwise, there's no urgency to do much but clear the deck on the bottom end.

I get it and I'm not adverse to trading any of them but who plays those minutes in their place keeping in mind that the Oilers might not even have enough cap space to sign their own RFA's and fill out the roster with cheap guys.

 

[CycloneSweep]

As I added to my previous post after you quoted it....

Hamilton struggled in Calgary relative to what he is now, that's why he was available and there was apparently some off the ice issues going back to Boston.

Jones was dealt when he was well down the depth chart in Nashville and Johansen was very highly regarded at the time.

Subban was dealt for a #1 Dman and as a salary dump the 2nd time.

Trouba only wanted to play in New York and I'm convinced that he's all that good.

Karlsson was damaged goods, aging and a pending UFA.

The one they had a shot at and looks like they missed the boat was Hamilton but as I mentioned, there were issues with him and I'm not sure he would succeeded here with the lack of support.

In a market like Edmonton and with the lack of tradeable assets they have plus lack of cap flexibility, the only real way they get a #1 Dman is to develop one.
If they could package up a bunch of assets to get one and sign that player long term, I'm all for it but it seems highly unrealistic.

Okay. So we wait to develop a #1 d than? Goodbye to McDavid and Draisaitl then because by the time that happens their contracts will be done.

Even if that is the plan we need an improvement on the defense period. 2 of Larsson, Nurse and Klefbom need to be replaced with guys who can actually use their brains more often than not

 

[Macblender]

Hamilton, Subban, Jones, Trouba, Karlsson are all better than all of our defenders and were traded in the last 5 years. Bullshit that they aren't ever traded.

We had a bottom 5 defense in the league...again. we need new blood for your score. Other internally or externally. When you have as bad of a defense as ours you need to do SOMETHING. this insanity of keeping the same d, getting the same results and constantly doing it again and again and hoping it's coaching or something else is baffling.

We inquired on all (or most) of them:

Jones would have cost RNH+ and we lost to the Johanssen offer.

Subban was rumored as Klef+4th overall+. We dodged a bullet here.

Trouba wanted to play in the states apparently but would have been a nice option. Not a bad option but he isn't a true #1.

Hamilton we lost out on but would have been a great #2.

Karlsson was lookjng for a huge pay day but went for a reasonable amount.

Jones and Hamilton were both good options and I will give you that. But realistically what team is extremely D rich that would have an option available and what are you paying for it.

Rather than everyone complaining about the D and saying these two guys cannot be on the team next year make a proposal for a D that may be moved and is a big upgrade rather than sating just get rid of them.

When considering the D half the board seems to forget this is a team game and we had an absolute parade to the box with no offensive support (not picking up guys for the most part). Sure they looked bad but we need to hold the forwards accountable as well and just since two of the culprits are the golden boys of the board doesnt mean they are not without blame.

I am not lobbying to do nothing just that don't treat removing those guys as addition by subtraction as they are realistically our two best D.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I get it and I'm not adverse to trading any of them but who plays those minutes in their place keeping in mind that the Oilers might not even have enough cap space to sign their own RFA's and fill out the roster with cheap guys.

That's the thing though. We don't even have enough money to sign our own guys as is. We need to move cap out.

Russell, Larsson, Nurse, Benning out frees up what... Almost 16mill? We need 1 mill of that to cover the rest of the signings. Jones, Bouchard can be the bottom pair costing what.... 1.8 mill? So that gives us what... 13 mill to find a top pairing defender and a second pairing defender? We can completely retool our defense if we are smart about it.

Nashville has serious offense issues while still developing good defenders. I'd seriously look at trying to bring in Ekholm or Ellis

 

[CupofOil]

Okay. So we wait to develop a #1 d than? Goodbye to McDavid and Draisaitl then because by the time that happens their contracts will be done.

Even if that is the plan we need an improvement on the defense period. 2 of Larsson, Nurse and Klefbom need to be replaced with guys who can actually use their brains more often than not

Agreed. I just don't know who is realistically available to anchor a top pairing.
Clear the deck and sign Pietrangelo? Sure, but why would he leave St. Louis?

That goes back to the "Edmonton dilemma". Not easy to convince guys to sign here long term and not enough assets to bring in a top Dman unless they win the draft lottery.
Hamilton was the one realistic shot at a guy like that in recent times and if it didn't work out well for Calgary, I'm not sure it would have here either.

 

[Weitz]

Any way to get rid of Neal without a buyout? We can't buy him out and have that much lost cap.

I still don't get that deal. He isn't more effective than Lucic, arguably worse, if you ignore the first 15 games of the season (which you should). Costs more and a lost 3rd rounder.

 

[CupofOil]

Any way to get rid of Neal without a buyout? We can't buy him out and have that much lost cap.

I still don't get that deal. He isn't more effective than Lucic, arguably worse, if you ignore the first 15 games of the season (which you should). Costs more and a lost 3rd rounder.

Don't be ridiculous. Neal was more impactful here regular season and playoffs than Lucic ever was outside of the '16-'17 regular season.
Also, look at the buyout details. That's another reason why the trade was made.

 

[Macblender]

at least three people in this thread have literally said "get rid of Klefbom/Nurse". Hell yes people are saying throw these guys away.

Trading both of your top 4 LD in one offseason with absolutely no plan to replace them is a recipe for a high pick in 20-21. If people want McDavid to demand a trade, that's a hell of a way to do it.

This all I want is a little less emotional whipping and more what are we moving these guys for that actually improves the D core.

The only proposals I have seen were Nurse for Ehlers which is very counterintuitive for improving the D core.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Agreed. I just don't know who is realistically available to anchor a top pairing.
Clear the deck and sign Pietrangelo? Sure, but why would he leave St. Louis?

That goes back to the "Edmonton dilemma". Not easy to convince guys to sign here long term and not enough assets to bring in a top Dman unless they win the draft lottery.
Hamilton was the one realistic shot at a guy like that in recent times and if it didn't work out well for Calgary, I'm not sure it would have here either.

Nashville still struggles offensively but has guys defensively that get the job done. I'd say Ekholm and Ellis are both guys that would be clear improvements on our guys. Maybe something surrounding Pulju, Larsson and our 1st could get it done? Maybe if we get first overall we could entice them with Nuge?

 

[Little Fury]

Our defense was much better than though. Larsson didn't have back issues, we had Sekera, Russell was better and Klefbom had less injuries too. Our defense now is a shadow of that season. If also say that the d as a whole being bottom 5 for 3 years straight is what I'd consider proving to be bad.

Klef has missed around 20 games every year since. Larsson played a full season in 18-19 and stunk. Nurse has been the only guy to appear consistently in the top 4 in the last three years.

Anyway, I'm not arguing against upgrading the D, I just don't see how dumping any of those guys for nothing does it unless this is one of those classic HF Oil "these guys suck, another team should trade us a superstar for them" moments.

 

[CycloneSweep]

This all I want is a little less emotional whipping and more what are we moving these guys for that actually improves the D core.

The only proposals I have seen were Nurse for Ehlers which is very counterintuitive for improving the D core.

In a bubble it's counter intuitive for sure. If we move Nurse for Ehlers we can maybe use a high pick + prospects to grab someone else

 

[CycloneSweep]

Klef has missed around 20 games every year since. Larsson played a full season in 18-19 and stunk. Nurse has been the only guy to appear consistently in the top 4 in the last three years.

Anyway, I'm not arguing against upgrading the D, I just don't see how dumping any of those guys for nothing does it unless this is one of those classic HF Oil "these guys suck, another team should trade us a superstar for them" moments.

Anyone saying dump them for nothing is crazy. Most people want to move them to bring in improvements though.