Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread: We Need HELP!

[Stoneman89]

Larsson for kapanen

Send down gagner
Call up cave
Scratch khaira

18 97 44
93 29 yamo
Nygard haas kapanen
Cave sheahan archibald
Kharia chiasson

77 74
Nurse benning
Russel bouchard

Koski
Smith

6 pk killers in the line up, speed all over line up

Wow, I think our GA would be over 5 with that lineup.

 

[GOilers88]

Yeah it’s thanks to Holland that the division is a tire fire. Did you happen to notice that almost every division rival of ours won yesterday and we don’t have games in hand on any of them? We had a piss easy schedule in December and completely fouled it up. When this road trip is over do you think we will still be where we are?

I didn't think they'd still be in the hunt after their dismal December, but here we are. How bout that. Have you ever thought to yourself that maybe the reason he hasn't done a whole lot yet is because the division IS trash, and it's not entirely imperative to deviate from what he told everyone he was going to do this first season?

Or does that just make too much sense?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Whats hard to understand? Holland not running this to WIN this year at the expense of next 2 or 3 or 4 years...he has an agenda....obviously it doesnt match urs!

There’s a distinct chance that in 2-3 years McDavid won’t be here anymore if things don’t improve.

 

[Little Fury]

Making millions of dollars doesn't mean you automatically can create something out of nothing in the span of 6 months. It doesn't matter a tinkers dam how much he's making for the job he had (has) in front of him. This isn't changing out 2-3 players to become a contender, nor is it wielding tens of millions of $$$ in cap space to purchase what is needed. Half the team needed to be moved, and if he hits on even half of those, I would say that is one hell of a start. If you want instant magic, go to a Las Vegas show. Although, I will say, getting Neal for Lucic was quite the sleight of hand, and probably worth 2-3 moves on it's own.

OK, by that low low bar, how have his additions done?

Smith has been pretty terrible after starting hot. The bottom six is a running joke. The only addition worth a damn has been Neal and, as has been pointed out, he gives up more than he creates.

So even if you are willing to cut him some slack for coming into a difficult situation, he hasn't exactly hit the jackpot with the gambles he has made and I think it's entirely fair to acknowledge that.

 

[Louis Cypher]

He moved Lucic for another awful contract, a goal scorer who only had 7 goals and had the same amount of term on his contract. It was a good trade in retrospect but Neal's value was sewered big time. The Leafs moved a useful player in Marleau who had only one year left on his contract and all it cost was a 1st round pick as a sweetener.
Lets move Russell for a pick. Easier said than done.

All it cost was a 1st round pick? FFS. That's a Chia move.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I didn't think they'd still be in the hunt after their dismal December, but here we are. How bout that. Have you ever thought to yourself that maybe the reason he hasn't done a whole lot yet is because the division IS trash, and it's not entirely imperative to deviate from what he told everyone he was going to do this first season?

Or does that just make too much sense?

So why not push for better things? The division is there for the taking but instead we just drown with mediocre goaltending and the leagues worst defense. Teams ramp up their play in the second half of the season and unless the Oilers do too they will be dust in March if not earlier.

People act like upgrading the roster costs a first rounder.

 

[Little Fury]

So why not push for better things? The division is there for the taking but instead we just drown with mediocre goaltending and the leagues worst defense. Teams ramp up their play in the second half of the season and unless the Oilers do too they will be dust in March if not earlier.

People act like upgrading the roster costs a first rounder.

People also act like first rounders are more important than actual players.

 

[GOilers88]

People also act like there's 30 GM's out there chomping at the bit to take on a 4 million dollar Kris Russell if you throw a 2nd rounder with him. This team has thrown away more than a handful of 2nd and 3rd round picks the last few years. That's how your supposed to build your own depth. If this team was a Taylor Hall away from being well rounded I'd throw the 1st away no problem. But they aren't, so I wouldn't.

 

[CupofOil]

People also act like first rounders are more important than actual players.

No. I think people are saying that for a middling team, a 1st rounder [;us good prospect is more important than a few month rental who won't lead them to a Cup.

 

[Anarchism]

People also act like first rounders are more important than actual players.

Our first rounder needs to be in play...as well as our second.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

People also act like there's 30 GM's out there chomping at the bit to take on a 4 million dollar Kris Russell if you throw a 2nd rounder with him. This team has thrown away more than a handful of 2nd and 3rd round picks the last few years. That's how your supposed to build your own depth. If this team was a Taylor Hall away from being well rounded I'd throw the 1st away no problem. But they aren't, so I wouldn't.

Yeah they’re a Crosby, Carlson and Holtby away from being well rounded.

it’s fine to hoard picks... if you’re good at drafting. Which, suffice to say, the Oilers are not good at drafting.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

No. I think people are saying that for a middling team, a 1st rounder [;us good prospect is more important than a few month rental who won't lead them to a Cup.

So it's a Cup or last place? Is this Ricky Bobby logic?

 

[belair]

The Neal trade was good, I'll give him that, but at the time that was swapping one bad contract for another. Everything else you mentioned is just shuffling deckchairs, the kind of thing any GM with a pulse is able to do. The guy has been a GM for a lot of years, so we know his M.O. and I'm not sure there's anything there to inspire confidence he'll make the kind of moves needed to take this team from a bubble club to an actual contender.

The fact that he was able to identify and address the special teams units is what allowed this team to gain a playoff spot in the first place. What turns this team into a contender is the development of our prospects and the internal growth of the core group.

I think people get too caught up with the idea of acquiring depth scorers. You see people willing to part with Adam Larsson for a guy like Kasperi Kapanen only to throw him on a third line with Haas as the center. The damage you are doing to the defense long-term will far exceeded the very few goals you manage to squeeze out of that minor acquisition. A few goals isn't what's separating this team from the top of our division.

Ken Holland specifically spoke about finding some 10-goal scorers in the off-season. Those were probably the most reasonable expectations you could ask, which provides me with a lot more optimism moving forward personally than having a GM who is frantically trying to shift key parts of the roster right out of the gate.

 

[GOilers88]

Yeah they’re a Crosby, Carlson and Holtby away from being well rounded.

it’s fine to hoard picks... if you’re good at drafting. Which, suffice to say, the Oilers are not good at drafting.

My problem with this statement is that you're lumping Ken Holland and his scouts in with the OBC. If you honestly believe they're all one in the same then it is what it is. "This group sucked at drafting for 13 years, so the new guy probably will too so we might as well not worry about it".

But I don't share that sentiment. You could be right and I could be completely wrong about Holland. But I need to give it more than half a season before I start to go there.

 

[CupofOil]

So it's a Cup or last place? Is this Ricky Bobby logic?

You're full of strawmen Jimmi going on again saying things that I didn't say.

Read what I'm typing before jumping to conclusions.
If you are spending assets (like the Coyotes did) for a player who you are renting for one playoff run, you better be sure you have a good chance to win the Cup or more than likely you end up with nothing at the end of the season and are back to Square One except without the 1st+ good prospect.

The 1st rounder should absolutely be up for sale but you need to get a good youngish player with TERM in return.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

My problem with this statement is that you're lumping Ken Holland and his scouts in with the OBC. If you honestly believe they're all one in the same then it is what it is. "This group sucked at drafting for 13 years, so the new guy probably will too so we might as well not worry about it".

But I don't share that sentiment. You could be right and I could be completely wrong about Holland. But I need to give it more than half a season before I start to go there.

Considering that some of the OBC is still with the organization you’ll have to forgive me for not having faith in the drafting.

it’s also not like Detroit has had amazing drafting the past few years.

Detroit Red Wings Draft History at hockeydb.com

 

[Anarchism]

You're full of strawmen Jimmi going on again saying things that I didn't say.

Read what I'm typing before jumping to conclusions.
If you are spending assets (like the Coyotes did) for a player who you are renting for one playoff run, you better be sure you have a good chance to win the Cup or more than likely you end up with nothing at the end of the season and are back to Square One except without the 1st+ good prospect.

The 1st rounder should absolutely be up for sale but you need to get a good youngish player with TERM in return.

Do you .....the sale of the first could be the first in a couple of moves....

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

You're full of strawmen Jimmi going on again saying things that I didn't say.

Read what I'm typing before jumping to conclusions.
If you are spending assets (like the Coyotes did) for a player who you are renting for one playoff run, you better be sure you have a good chance to win the Cup or more than likely you end up with nothing at the end of the season and are back to Square One except without the 1st+ good prospect.

The 1st rounder should absolutely be up for sale but you need to get a good youngish player with TERM in return.

If the Oilers wait until they’re a contender to buy you’ll be dead before it happens.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

You're full of strawmen Jimmi going on again saying things that I didn't say.

Read what I'm typing before jumping to conclusions.
If you are spending assets (like the Coyotes did) for a player who you are renting for one playoff run, you better be sure you have a good chance to win the Cup or more than likely you end up with nothing at the end of the season and are back to Square One except without the 1st+ good prospect.

The 1st rounder should absolutely be up for sale but you need to get a good youngish player with TERM in return.

Ok, this team needs to playoffs this season or there are going to be long term problems with their star players. So, I get what you're saying, but Arizona had a major flaw (garbage at center) and that's clearly being exposed. However, they have to create interest for a fan base that is passive at best, and indifferent at worst, so they might have future support.

The Oilers need to show they aren't an also ran or of you're McDavid or Draisaitl, why do you bother.

 

[XXIV97]

It's only good in retrospect because he's scoring goals this season.
At the time, he was a 31 year old 7 goal scorer who is poor at everything else with a Lucic sized contract so at the time, they got a bad contract back for Lucic. It was a swap of bad contracts essentially. I'm just talking about what Neal was worth at the time combating Great Keith's notion that Lucic was moved for value. It was negative value for negative value with one being slightly less negative.

Another thing to note is that bad contracts with term are easier to move in the offseason so I can't see a team willing to take on an extra year of Russell contract and actually give something of value for it. It'll likely be a bad contract swap, similar to what Spooner for Strome was meant to accomplish last season. If there is a struggling forward with a decent pedigree out there with a $3-4M contract that expires after next season, I could see Russell going for that. Something like Frolik if he had an extra year on his contract.

The perfect opportunity to move Kris Russell would be this offseason after his signing bonus is paid. Russell would only be owed 1.5 M in salary while having a 4 M cap hit.

The Ottawa Senators would be the perfect destination. They need warm bodies to shelter their prospects while also needing to hit the cap floor.

 

[GOilers88]

Considering that some of the OBC is still with the organization you’ll have to forgive me for not having faith in the drafting.

it’s also not like Detroit has had amazing drafting the past few years.

Detroit Red Wings Draft History at hockeydb.com

I see a lot more names under him that have made it to the NHL than I do under Oilers brass. It doesn't have to be amazing, it has to be better, and I look at a lot of those names and see better scouting than I do here.

Nobody nails it every year at the draft. Every GM has a few big whiffs and a few big hits. But they've been a lot better than we have.

People are also quick to ignore how making the playoffs for 25 consecutive years is going to impact your ability to draft real high end talent that isnt considered a late round gem for a number of years after you do falter. Factor in that ownership did want him to keep pushing for a few years even when most people recognized they needed to start over, much like Vancouver.

It seems like there's a good few people here who immediately want to see negative in everything that happens, as soon as it happens. Everything is always twisted in a way that sucks all the positive out of anything no matter how big or how small. If specific things people want aren't done, then it means people aren't trying, or are content to fail. I just don't understand this, and I've been a fan of this team for as long as I can remember too.

If a sports franchise that you have no connection to causes you to become so jaded, negative, and pissed off about things that you can't be upbeat about anything, ever, I really think it's become an unhealthy addiction for you. When the team is winning people complain. When the team is losing people complain. When bad players are brought in people complain, when those same players are moved out people complain about the ones brought in to replace them. Draft picks are never the right picks. Contracts are never done right.

I just don't get it.

 

[belair]

Considering that some of the OBC is still with the organization you’ll have to forgive me for not having faith in the drafting.

it’s also not like Detroit has had amazing drafting the past few years.

Detroit Red Wings Draft History at hockeydb.com

Our drafting has been significantly better since 2015. We actually have a farm system that relies on our own prospects to succeed instead of the AHL lifers we used to rely on.

Again, we own one of the league's deepest pools on defense. Overall we only really lack the high-end forwards we used to supply through the draft lottery.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Our drafting has been significantly better since 2015. We actually have a farm system that relies on our own prospects to succeed instead of the AHL lifers we used to rely on.

Again, we own one of the league's deepest pools on defense. Overall we only really lack the high-end forwards we used to supply through the draft lottery.

Yeah we are so deep on prospects.... except at forward and goaltending. Bear has been fine but Jones/Lagesson have left a lot to be desired.

 

[Anarchism]

Earlier I came down pretty hard on Raabhart and am feeling somewhat guilty about it.
He has some views that are......distinct...

So in an attempt to actually do something....and appease Raab....

Suppose his friend Nurse wants >6.8 or >7 mill

Its decision time ....what we do with Nurse affects our D make up and affects the timing of Forward acquistion.
---------------------------------------

Trade our 1st (top 8 protected?) for Sami Vatanen.(make the deal now but finalize paper work after the playoffs.

Trade Nurse and Pulju to

Florida for

one of Chris Driedger or Spencer Knight
and
Rilley STillman( he is on display now)
and
Vincent Trochek

Then go to Blake in LA
and overpay again

Toffoli for Broberg plus Chiasson(dump)...again make deal but finalize at end of playoff when there is cap space.
------------------------------------------

Toffoli McDavid Kass

RNH Drais zzzzz(maybe Yamo)

Benson Trochek Neal

Khaira Sheahan Archie

Haas, prussel, Currie


Oskar Bear

Vatanen Larsson

STillman Benning

Jones/Lagesson

Kostko

Driedger

So out Nurse , a first , Pulju and Broberg,....

In Vatanen, Driedger, Trochek, STillman, and Toffoli. Im supposing that Hollands smart enough to get extensions for all...where necessary.

K Russel will have to go ....maybe as part of a package for a 2Rw ....but he holds at least some of the cards with his modified NTC

Really wanted Tierney from Ottawa for the 3C but when they got Rielly that didnt help our cause to be able to get him......sure i know they really want to upgrade one of their 3 2nds to a first but....we aren't the only players out there.

Yes i know i made an assumption with Benson....but one farm hard will make it ????

 

[McFlash97]

There’s a distinct chance that in 2-3 years McDavid won’t be here anymore if things don’t improve.

This summer he gives his final ultamatum. 1 year tops. Hes gone by 2021 January if this does not improve dramatically. Heard it here. Then all these pom pom waving Oiler fanatics who trashed on Hall can then rip 97 , when the real problem is the organization and the garbage they have built around him, the dead fans at the arena and the city.