Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread: We Need HELP!

[GOilers88]

Man, I wish I could make several million dollars without having to do any work for a full year, sounds sweet. One trade, sign 47 fourth liners and one broken down goalie and check out until summer.

I'd love to know how you'd take a cap strapped team with 60% fringe AHLers and turn them into something more than a wildcard team in five months. Please enlighten us.

 

[GOilers88]

What in Holland's history makes you think he's capable of "making some noise?"

How about a 20+ goal guy for Lucic?

How about Haas, Sheahan, Nygard and Smith for Reider, Talbot, Brodziak and Ty Rattie?

Or do none of those replacements mean anything because you don't think it's a big enough splash even though there's no capsapce?

You can keep ignoring things he's done because you don't think it's enough, but anyone with half a brain can see he has made changes. Not all of them worked, but nobody hits 100% of the time.

 

[Little Fury]

I'd love to know how you'd take a cap strapped team with 60% fringe AHLers and turn them into something more than a wildcard team in five months. Please enlighten us.

I'm not sure. But then I'm not making millions and millions of dollars to do just that.

 

[GOilers88]

I'm not sure. But then I'm not making millions and millions of dollars to do just that.

There's that same old response. He should do more cause obviously it should be easy, but I have nothing to back up my ridiculous complaints because it's not my job.

Maybe he couldn't turn do it in one summer because it's an impossible task? Nah that can't be it. He's obviously just content to sit there and willingly do nothing. That must be it. If anyone expected him to be able to do the impossible like that, they would have signed him to a one or two year deal, not five.

 

[93oilerfan93]

Larsson for kapanen

Send down gagner
Call up cave
Scratch khaira

18 97 44
93 29 yamo
Nygard haas kapanen
Cave sheahan archibald
Kharia chiasson

77 74
Nurse benning
Russel bouchard

Koski
Smith

6 pk killers in the line up, speed all over line up

 

[Little Fury]

How about a 20+ goal guy for Lucic?

How about Haas, Sheahan, Nygard and Smith for Reider, Talbot, Brodziak and Ty Rattie?

Or do none of those replacements mean anything because you don't think it's a big enough splash even though there's no capsapce?

The Neal trade was good, I'll give him that, but at the time that was swapping one bad contract for another. Everything else you mentioned is just shuffling deckchairs, the kind of thing any GM with a pulse is able to do. The guy has been a GM for a lot of years, so we know his M.O. and I'm not sure there's anything there to inspire confidence he'll make the kind of moves needed to take this team from a bubble club to an actual contender.

 

[BarDownBobo]

I know the team is trending downward and was one of the worst teams in the league in December but at the halfway point we’re in a wild card spot and only 5 points out of the division lead.

Ask anyone at the start of the season and this would have been a great situation to be in. The biggest reason why we had a bad month was a combination of bad goaltending and McDrai playing poor defense, as well as some of our Dmen missing assignments.

I’m with you here. We knew coming into this season that this was still a flawed team that would likely be fighting for a playoff spot come seasons end. I think a lot of people got some false hope when the team came out of the gates flying but now things have balanced out a bit and this is probably where we should have expected them to be. There will be another upswing once McDavid and Drai get off the snide and start playing like themselves again, and I’m still confident that they’re going to be a playoff team when all is said and done this year.

 

[aspin3]

Islanders need a defenceman now. Would they bite on Russel or Benning? Benning for a forward and Russel for a 6th to pick someone else up in a trade.

 

[CupofOil]

Since we are engaging with strawmen, how’s about we just do nothing and flush another season with the best player on the planet down the drain? He moved Lucic for something of value so there’s no reason why others can’t be moved.

He moved Lucic for another awful contract, a goal scorer who only had 7 goals and had the same amount of term on his contract. It was a good trade in retrospect but Neal's value was sewered big time. The Leafs moved a useful player in Marleau who had only one year left on his contract and all it cost was a 1st round pick as a sweetener.
Lets move Russell for a pick. Easier said than done.

 

[Little Fury]

There's that same old response. He should do more cause obviously it should be easy, but I have nothing to back up my ridiculous complaints because it's not my job.

Did I say it was easy? No. But, again, that's why he makes more money than you or I will ever see in our lifetimes.

Maybe he couldn't turn do it in one summer because it's an impossible task? Nah that can't be it. He's obviously just content to sit there and willingly do nothing. That must be it. If anyone expected him to be able to do the impossible like that, they would have signed him to a one or two year deal, not five.

Again, I'm less concerned with his relative passivity this year than I am with his ability to do what ins necessary in the future.

 

[GOilers88]

The Neal trade was good, I'll give him that, but at the time that was swapping one bad contract for another. Everything else you mentioned is just shuffling deckchairs, the kind of thing any GM with a pulse is able to do. The guy has been a GM for a lot of years, so we know his M.O. and I'm not sure there's anything there to inspire confidence he'll make the kind of moves needed to take this team from a bubble club to an actual contender.

I'd be far more concerned if a guy that was just hired came in before the season even started and began trading away your core pieces like Klef, RNH, Nurse or Larsson, and considering there isn't much of value beyond them and McDrai and the team is up against the cap, I can't for the life of me understand what it is you expected to happen in five months other than some deck chair shuffling??

 

[GOilers88]

Did I say it was easy? No. But, again, that's why he makes more money than you or I will ever see in our lifetimes.



Again, I'm less concerned with his relative passivity this year than I am with his ability to do what ins necessary in the future.

I'll concede a bit because of your willingness to give him at least one season before hammering the panic button. The only thing I can say to you is I believe he will make positive moves for this franchise moving forward. I don't think it will be season after season of complete inactivity.

Call it misplaced hope if you'd like, but that's how I feel. I could very well be completely wrong, but I'm not going to go down that road until he actually proves it. Getting down because of moves he may or may not make a month, two months, a year or two years down the road is silly.

 

[Spawn]

How about a 20+ goal guy for Lucic?

How about Haas, Sheahan, Nygard and Smith for Reider, Talbot, Brodziak and Ty Rattie?

Or do none of those replacements mean anything because you don't think it's a big enough splash even though there's no capsapce?

You can keep ignoring things he's done because you don't think it's enough, but anyone with half a brain can see he has made changes. Not all of them worked, but nobody hits 100% of the time.

James Neal is his one good move. Dude is on pace for 50 points and like a -40 on the season. He's one of the worst 5v5 players in the league and has been for years.

Not a single one of those other "replacement" players belongs in the NHL based on their level of play this season. Replacing garbage with slightly less bad garbage is still garbage.

Holland laid a big fat turd this offseason. It's been nearly 10 years since he's been a good GM. He got this job because he's buddies with Bob Nicholson.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

How about a 20+ goal guy for Lucic?

How about Haas, Sheahan, Nygard and Smith for Reider, Talbot, Brodziak and Ty Rattie?

Or do none of those replacements mean anything because you don't think it's a big enough splash even though there's no capsapce?

You can keep ignoring things he's done because you don't think it's enough, but anyone with half a brain can see he has made changes. Not all of them worked, but nobody hits 100% of the time.

Good post.

 

[GOilers88]

James Neal is his one good move. Dude is on pace for 50 points and like a -40 on the season. He's one of the worst 5v5 players in the league and has been for years.

Not a single one of those other "replacement" players belongs in the NHL based on their level of play this season.

Holland laid a big fat turd this offseason. It's been nearly 10 years since he's been a good GM. He got this job because he's buddies with Bob Nicholson.

Sorry but the only turds are people claiming a guy who has been in charge for half a season is a failure because he hasn't changed 15 years of trash.

 

[Anarchism]

The Neal trade was good, I'll give him that, but at the time that was swapping one bad contract for another. Everything else you mentioned is just shuffling deckchairs, the kind of thing any GM with a pulse is able to do. The guy has been a GM for a lot of years, so we know his M.O. and I'm not sure there's anything there to inspire confidence he'll make the kind of moves needed to take this team from a bubble club to an actual contender.

This worries me alot too. However this is the same type of situation he was in very early in Detroit and he made some really smart moves then. He hasnt been in this sort of situation for a long time. For the last DEcade detroit dying with players in twilight of their careers or hurt and Holland showing a little too much loyalty.
Hopefully players remember the good parts and see him the way i do.....maybe some willing to sign here cause they believe in him.

 

[bucks_oil]

He moved Lucic for another awful contract, a goal scorer who only had 7 goals and had the same amount of term on his contract. It was a good trade in retrospect but Neal's value was sewered big time. The Leafs moved a useful player in Marleau who had only one year left on his contract and all it cost was a 1st round pick as a sweetener.
Lets move Russell for a pick. Easier said than done.

I don't get your post... on the one hand you are saying the Lucic/Neal trade is only good in retrospect... isn't it the GM's job to evaluate the player and the situation they are in to predict how they might perform in the new environment? Don't we want a GM that can make an "even trade" that ends up being a big, big win for us? That's still the goal right?

Then you go on to speak from the other side of your mouth... trading bad contracts is harder said than done... shouldn't that mean we should be all the more happy about the Lucic/Neal trade?

 

[Little Fury]

I'll concede a bit because of your willingness to give him at least one season before hammering the panic button. The only thing I can say to you is I believe he will make positive moves for this franchise moving forward. I don't think it will be season after season of complete inactivity.

Call it misplaced hope if you'd like, but that's how I feel. I could very well be completely wrong, but I'm not going to go down that road until he actually proves it. Getting down because of moves he may or may not make a month, two months, a year or two years down the road is silly.

Summer is a tough call. Need reasonable deals for Nurse and Bear, an extension for RNH, a top 6W, a 3C and a 1B goalie. Shedding some more cap in the form of Russell or Larsson is probably needed too. That's a lot of work for a guy who isn't known as an aggressive manager and who's body of work in the cap era isn't that impressive.

 

[Spawn]

Sorry but the only turds are people claiming a guy who has been in charge for half a season is a failure because he hasn't changed 15 years of trash.

Holland changed over the entire bottom part of the forward depth with uniformly trash players and brought in the worst starting goalie in the league last season to split duty with our unproven "starter." Once he stops bringing in trash I'll stop saying he's a trash GM.

 

[McShogun99]

I’m with you here. We knew coming into this season that this was still a flawed team that would likely be fighting for a playoff spot come seasons end. I think a lot of people got some false hope when the team came out of the gates flying but now things have balanced out a bit and this is probably where we should have expected them to be. There will be another upswing once McDavid and Drai get off the snide and start playing like themselves again, and I’m still confident that they’re going to be a playoff team when all is said and done this year.

I think the only lock for a top 3 spot in the Pacifoc is Vegas. Calgary should be but something is off with them this season, Arizona can’t score, Vancouver is hot right now but will fall back to earth. Anaheim, San Jose and LA won’t make top 3. It’s essentially a 4 team fight so we just need to be better then 2 of Arizona, Calgary and Vancouver.

 

[Anarchism]

Sorry but the only turds are people claiming a guy who has been in charge for half a season is a failure because he hasn't chang?ed 15 years of trash.

Yes he has achieved very much. and most of his plan is very smart.
What happens next is evaluation of 5 or 6 farm hands in order.
And he has to make decision on Nurse's contract or not.
Before February 15/20 he needs to make one high quality move...and another after the playoff or at the draft.
The question of alot of people here is "does he still have the cojones to do it?"

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

And they're still only three points out of 2nd in the division. You keep insinuating the season has been lost and there's no way anything good can happen without trades happening yesterday. You know what happens when a GM shares the same emotionally charged, dire, knee-jerk logic as fans? You get Peter Chiarelli.

You're wrong. Straight up. This season isn't over because Holland didnt make a bunch of trades before January.

Yeah it’s thanks to Holland that the division is a tire fire. Did you happen to notice that almost every division rival of ours won yesterday and we don’t have games in hand on any of them? We had a piss easy schedule in December and completely fouled it up. When this road trip is over do you think we will still be where we are?

 

[Stoneman89]

I'm not sure. But then I'm not making millions and millions of dollars to do just that.

Making millions of dollars doesn't mean you automatically can create something out of nothing in the span of 6 months. It doesn't matter a tinkers dam how much he's making for the job he had (has) in front of him. This isn't changing out 2-3 players to become a contender, nor is it wielding tens of millions of $$$ in cap space to purchase what is needed. Half the team needed to be moved, and if he hits on even half of those, I would say that is one hell of a start. If you want instant magic, go to a Las Vegas show. Although, I will say, getting Neal for Lucic was quite the sleight of hand, and probably worth 2-3 moves on it's own.

 

[Anarchism]

Yeah it’s thanks to Holland that the division is a tire fire. Did you happen to notice that almost every division rival of ours won yesterday and we don’t have games in hand on any of them? We had a piss easy schedule in December and completely fouled it up. When this road trip is over do you think we will still be where we are?

Whats hard to understand? Holland not running this to WIN this year at the expense of next 2 or 3 or 4 years...he has an agenda....obviously it doesnt match urs!

 

[CupofOil]

I don't get your post... on the one hand you are saying the Lucic/Neal trade is only good in retrospect... isn't it the GM's job to evaluate the player and the situation they are in to predict how they might perform in the new environment? Don't we want a GM that can make an "even trade" that ends up being a big, big win for us? That's still the goal right?

Then you go on to speak from the other side of your mouth... trading bad contracts is harder said than done... shouldn't that mean we should be all the more happy about the Lucic/Neal trade?

It's only good in retrospect because he's scoring goals this season.
At the time, he was a 31 year old 7 goal scorer who is poor at everything else with a Lucic sized contract so at the time, they got a bad contract back for Lucic. It was a swap of bad contracts essentially. I'm just talking about what Neal was worth at the time combating Great Keith's notion that Lucic was moved for value. It was negative value for negative value with one being slightly less negative.

Another thing to note is that bad contracts with term are easier to move in the offseason so I can't see a team willing to take on an extra year of Russell contract and actually give something of value for it. It'll likely be a bad contract swap, similar to what Spooner for Strome was meant to accomplish last season. If there is a struggling forward with a decent pedigree out there with a $3-4M contract that expires after next season, I could see Russell going for that. Something like Frolik if he had an extra year on his contract.