Roster Speculation, 2018 offseason Part 5/ Post-free agency edition

[Icicle]

Ya I showed you they could both fit, Ellis and Skinner, with high caps for everyone.

Stop ignoring things to ramble on with these silly points.

You literally ran the numbers and found out we couldn't without moving big contracts or the cap raising significantly. You ignored the goalie contract increases and assumed the type of cap increases I said it'd take for it to happen. Check your maths.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Tallon was still the GM when Hossa signed.

Further reinforcing my point.

 

[jc17]

I think we should let the kids get into a game before we decide what they can and can't do. Asplund has shown to be one of our best prospects over the past two years, he's very crafty with the puck and has a good, deceptive shot. He can score NHL goals.

Your sentences contradict each other. If we let the kids get into a game before passing judgement we also can't just assume they'll score 20.

The original post was kind of a weird thing to say. Of course everyone would be happy if one of our prospects pulled 20 goals out of the air their rookie year. Getting that production from an unexpected player would be big for any team.

 

[1972]

It’s just most comparable and recent. Just because you don’t think it was a good deal, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist or that Skinner and his agent don’t think it’s a comp from their perspective.

It's comparable forsure, but that was more then market value for Kane. I think Skinner will come in around 6.5-7 if he signs in Buffalo, that's my opinion. I don't doubt if he's looking elsewhere he could get more. Skinner strikes me as the type of guy who is going to be more about fit and being close to home then about the money.

 

[Dingo44]

Man count me in as looking forward to Reinhart signing day to get some real Sabres news around here though I might have to tune out depending on the irrationality of the response to his contract.

 

[Reddawg]

Man count me in as looking forward to Reinhart signing day to get some real Sabres news around here though I might have to tune out depending on the irrationality of the response to his contract.

I hope he signs right before camp starts so the crying can be drowned out a bit.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

I’ve never understood the “signature move” idea. As if a GM has to make one to be validated.

What was Stan Bowman’s? Signing Hossa?

What was Chiarelli’s? Signing Chara?

A signature move is a fan and media thing. Unrequired to be a GM.

A signature move can be so many things. Hiring the right coach. Trading away a certain player. Trading for a certain player. Signing a certain player. Drafting a certain player that isnt a no brainer pick.

A GM doesnt win a cup by inheriting his roster and then somewhere down the line he is a cup champion. The GM would have made one if not a few "signature" moves to improve his franchise and take them up to the next level. Murray tried making signature moves nearly every trade he made by literally either overpaying or paying full retail value for certain big name players.

Botts has several signature moves. Acquiring a young fast high end first line winger in Skinner, a solid vet #3 dman in Scandella and a young speedy 2x cup winning 20 goal winger for the whopping price of Marcus Foligno, Tyler Ennis, Cliff Pu, and then draft picks in the 2nd,3rd, 4th,6th and taking on two short term cap dumps (Poms and Hunwick) and Poms is atleast a 15-18 goal third line winger and not totally useless.

When you acquire 3 good players who would be top contributors on any cup contender for virtually NOTHING now that is a signature move.

Botts literally stole Scandella, Skinner and Sheary. Those are 3 players that would be top players on a cup contender. Hell, Sheary literally was that, scoring 41 goals in 2 seasons in only 140 games playing on a back to back cup team. Scandella was a top 4 D on a solid contender and Skinner is a first line winger on virtually every team if not at LW then RW. The stuff we gave up I wont miss. We didnt give up any firsts or any top prospects drafted in the first or early 2nd and the 2nd we traded wasnt the top pick in the round. The 2nd the canes will get is hopefully in the 45-50 range. It definitely will not be 32-35.

Knowing we have a faster, deeper, more talented nhl lineup with a generational d man who is 18 now here and that we have 4 first round picks the next two drafts....oh hell yes. Our present and future have not looked this bright in ages. I dont remember the last time we could be excited for the nhl team and the prospects/draft picks as much as I am over them now.

 

[sabrebuild]

You literally ran the numbers and found out we couldn't without moving big contracts or the cap raising significantly. You ignored the goalie contract increases and assumed the type of cap increases I said it'd take for it to happen. Check your maths.

What big contracts did I move? Show your work.

My post clearly showed that with reasonable rises in the cap based on the last ten years, you could fit those guys all in with several prospects hitting their ceiling.

I then followed up to show that if the cap didn’t rise as quickly as expected, you could still fit the big names all in just by not resigning one of Sheary or Scandella, players you would be choosing to sign as ufa’s.

Instead of spreading your false propaganda, just look at the numbers.

Enough with the goalie nonsense as well. Buttons deal will be done by the time Dahlin is signing. Let’s assume Ulmark is ready by then. Ulmark gets 4-5 and your backup is a minimum contract.

You think this is big cap gymnastics. In reality, the moves to create cap space are basic management moves. It’s not complex.

 

[sabrebuild]

It's comparable forsure, but that was more then market value for Kane. I think Skinner will come in around 6.5-7 if he signs in Buffalo, that's my opinion. I don't doubt if he's looking elsewhere he could get more. Skinner strikes me as the type of guy who is going to be more about fit and being close to home then about the money.

It’s weird to me that you think the Sharks over paid the market, because on one hand they are a model franchise. And two, they knew that signing him would cost 30 spots in the draft.

I mean realistically, not what you would want to pay, do you really think if he had become a ufa, Kane was going to get less than 7 a year? I mean, he was coming off a deal over 5 a year. Prime age, close to 30 regularly. I mean who would you use as a comp for Kane to get a lesser deal?

 

[Der Jaeger]

A signature move can be so many things. Hiring the right coach. Trading away a certain player. Trading for a certain player. Signing a certain player. Drafting a certain player that isnt a no brainer pick.

A GM doesnt win a cup by inheriting his roster and then somewhere down the line he is a cup champion. The GM would have made one if not a few "signature" moves to improve his franchise and take them up to the next level. Murray tried making signature moves nearly every trade he made by literally either overpaying or paying full retail value for certain big name players.

Botts has several signature moves. Acquiring a young fast high end first line winger in Skinner, a solid vet #3 dman in Scandella and a young speedy 2x cup winning 20 goal winger for the whopping price of Marcus Foligno, Tyler Ennis, Cliff Pu, and then draft picks in the 2nd,3rd, 4th,6th and taking on two short term cap dumps (Poms and Hunwick) and Poms is atleast a 15-18 goal third line winger and not totally useless.

When you acquire 3 good players who would be top contributors on any cup contender for virtually NOTHING now that is a signature move.

Botts literally stole Scandella, Skinner and Sheary. Those are 3 players that would be top players on a cup contender. Hell, Sheary literally was that, scoring 41 goals in 2 seasons in only 140 games playing on a back to back cup team. Scandella was a top 4 D on a solid contender and Skinner is a first line winger on virtually every team if not at LW then RW. The stuff we gave up I wont miss. We didnt give up any firsts or any top prospects drafted in the first or early 2nd and the 2nd we traded wasnt the top pick in the round. The 2nd the canes will get is hopefully in the 45-50 range. It definitely will not be 32-35.

Knowing we have a faster, deeper, more talented nhl lineup with a generational d man who is 18 now here and that we have 4 first round picks the next two drafts....oh hell yes. Our present and future have not looked this bright in ages. I dont remember the last time we could be excited for the nhl team and the prospects/draft picks as much as I am over them now.

The whole concept of a signature move is a fan/media thing.

Botterill was just making moves and doing his job. “Signature move” is a silly concept.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

The whole concept of a signature move is a fan/media thing.

Botterill was just making moves and doing his job. “Signature move” is a silly concept.

Tell that to "Hacksaw" Jim Duggin, whose signature move -- the three-point stance clothesline -- brought fans out of their seats every time.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Tell that to "Hacksaw" Jim Duggin, whose signature move -- the three-point stance clothesline -- brought fans out of their seats every time.

Nice!

Let's pretend a "signature move" was actually a thing. What would Botts' be? Murray's?

Botts: Heavy coconut headbutt?
Murray: Flashing eyes choke hold?

 

[sabrebuild]

Nice!

Let's pretend a "signature move" was actually a thing. What would Botts' be? Murray's?

Botts: Heavy coconut headbutt?
Murray: Flashing eyes choke hold?

I think Murray could pull off a good Ric Flair woo with the crazy eyes!! Imagine, at the draft, strutting out in a speedo with the cockiest smirk in the world, Murray slaps Bettman’s chest so hard the world hears the crack, screams a woo and says Jack Eichel and struts off the stage.

 

[Team Cozens]

What big contracts did I move? Show your work.

My post clearly showed that with reasonable rises in the cap based on the last ten years, you could fit those guys all in with several prospects hitting their ceiling.

I then followed up to show that if the cap didn’t rise as quickly as expected, you could still fit the big names all in just by not resigning one of Sheary or Scandella, players you would be choosing to sign as ufa’s.

Instead of spreading your false propaganda, just look at the numbers.

Enough with the goalie nonsense as well. Buttons deal will be done by the time Dahlin is signing. Let’s assume Ulmark is ready by then. Ulmark gets 4-5 and your backup is a minimum contract.

You think this is big cap gymnastics. In reality, the moves to create cap space are basic management moves. It’s not complex.

If Pilut and Guhle progress as expected, I’d consider moving Scandella at the trade deadline if we can get another 1st. Gives the other team 2 playoffs with Scandella.

 

[slip]

If Pilut and Guhle progress as expected, I’d consider moving Scandella at the trade deadline if we can get another 1st. Gives the other team 2 playoffs with Scandella.

Or maybe the goal should be to keep him and hammer out a 2-3 year extension, like the Coyotes did with Hjalmarsson. This franchise is in no position to trade off competent defenders with term left, regardless of how the youth performs.

 

[sabrebuild]

If Pilut and Guhle progress as expected, I’d consider moving Scandella at the trade deadline if we can get another 1st. Gives the other team 2 playoffs with Scandella.

I think I agree with @slip

On top of that, if Guhle and Pilut progress as expected, then we are in contention for the playoffs and they need to try to make the playoffs.

In my mind those two progressing enough to think they can let Scandella go, means Guhle is a legit top 4 guy, bouwmeester lite. And Pilut is a quality roster player, sheltered but productive.

Which would be an awesome group for depth.

With Ellis gone it doesn’t matter, but in that potential scenario icicle doesn’t understand, Sheary was always the player I suspect would not be resigned. He will have every opportunity to play with a skilled playmaker for this contract. I bet he rebounds to make himself too pricey in Buffalo as the third or fourth best winger.

You should be able to replace him at that time with one of the 2019 draft picks or cheaper trade.

 

[Matt Ress]

Or maybe the goal should be to keep him and hammer out a 2-3 year extension, like the Coyotes did with Hjalmarsson. This franchise is in no position to trade off competent defenders with term left, regardless of how the youth performs.

That's not necessarily true. If Guhle and Pilut are legit top 4's and we see a Samuelsson with top 4 potential, all by Christmas, then the franchise would be in good position to move that defender. I'd want to see another year out of those kids and there are a lot of "ifs" involved, adding the return for Scandy and if we are in a playoff hunt. The 2020 deadline might be the better move.

 

[Matt Ress]

It's comparable forsure, but that was more then market value for Kane. I think Skinner will come in around 6.5-7 if he signs in Buffalo, that's my opinion. I don't doubt if he's looking elsewhere he could get more. Skinner strikes me as the type of guy who is going to be more about fit and being close to home then about the money.

Did Skinner really remark being close to Toronto as a reason or is that just a repeated assumption? I thought I remembered him being "meh" about it when someone asked him. Could just be the notion of playing with a top end center or being in a hyper hockey market while staying in the states or seeing a young talented team. Or all three...

 

[joshjull]

 

[Zip15]

I think he has the top-9 mostly right if we're going by what it's likely to be, rather than what posters would make it. My gut says Sheary starts with Jack, though. I definitely think Sobotka and Berglund will start together, and while ERod should play more than Poms, I think Poms gets that RW3 spot by default (read: vet preference). I don't think Thompson makes the team, and especially not in a 4th line role - that goes against just about everything Botts has ever said about player development.

I don't agree that none of Bailey, Baptiste, or Willson will be on the opening night roster. My crack at the opening night lineup (based on what I think Housley will do):

Sheary-Eichel-Reinhart
Skinner-Mitts-Okposo
Sobotka-Berglund-Poms [This line is going to get destroyed and be the first reason for a reshuffle]
Wilson-Girgensons-ERod
x Baptiste, Bailey

Larsson sent to Rochester.

 

[Aladyyn]

I wish we could skip over to the part where the shitty vets are pushed out of the lineup completely.

 

[Zip15]

I wish we could skip over to the part where the ****ty vets are pushed out of the lineup completely.

Considering you're likely referring to two recently acquired players who are being marketed as "improved bottom-6 depth," I think you'll be waiting awhile.

 

[Aladyyn]

Considering you're likely referring to two recently acquired players who are being marketed as "improved bottom-6 depth," I think you'll be waiting awhile.

I've accepted Berglund as a mainstay, just hoping his role ends up being as small as possible. Pominville is the one I want out.

 

[1972]

Considering you're likely referring to two recently acquired players who are being marketed as "improved bottom-6 depth," I think you'll be waiting awhile.

It's really just Pommer. Those other two are still have alot of miles left and are legit bottom six guys.

 

[sufferer]

I'd go with either

Sheary - Eichel - Rodriguez
Skinner - Reinhart - Baptiste
Berglund - Mittelstadt - Okposo
Girgensons - Sobotka/Larsson - Bailey/Poms

or have a "stacked" top-6

Sheary - Eichel - Reinhart
Skinner - Mittelstadt - Okposo
Girgensons - Berglund - Rodriguez
Sobotka - Larsson - Baptiste

Decent competition for winger spots should make for an interesting camp. I happen to like the idea of a Skinner-Reinhart tandem much in the same vein as Kane-Reinhart. An individualistic winger with a cerebral glue-guy center. Obviously a lot of question marks whether Reinhart can stay at center, but I'd like for him to get an extended look with a legit goal scorer.