Speculation: Roster Building Thread XLVIII: Draft day is a comin'

[darko]

From 2005-2015.

Top 10 picks:
Tampa - 5
Pens - 3
Sharks - 3
Blues - 2
NYR - 1

Top 5 picks:
Tampa - 3
Pens - 2
Blues - 2
Sharks - 0
Rangers - 0

Tampa must've won bunch of Cups.


Smart drafting and smart personnel decisions will get you to the promise land. Rangers have drafted well but some of their decisions weren't up to scratch. I know we don't like bringing up Stralman but that's a classic example of bad decision making.

 

[haohmaru]

From 2005-2015.

Top 10 picks:
Tampa - 5
Pens - 3
Sharks - 3
Blues - 2
NYR - 1

Top 5 picks:
Tampa - 3
Pens - 2
Blues - 2
Sharks - 0
Rangers - 0

In fairness, how many top 10 picks are on each roster, regardless of who picked them?

Brassard (6th overall)
Nash(1st overall)
Mcilrath (10th)
E. Staal (2nd)

The Rangers have *a lot* of 1st round draft picks on their roster.

 

[haohmaru]

To win a championship,you need your best players to step up their games. Many Rangers fans used to criticize Leetch and Richter before the Rangers won. Their playoff performances were spotty. If the Rangers were going to win,they needed both of them at the very top of their games. No excuses about injuries or anything or they did not like coach. McDonagh has not done that. I see the teams which win have those players.

Really? The guy played through a broken foot. Do you think Leetch would've scored 30+ points in '93-94 if his foot was broken? Come on. McD seems to get injured every year at the wrong time and he could've been 100% healthy and rested going into this year's playoffs and still not made much of a difference. This team was playing a garbage defensive system.

 

[NYR Viper]

Really? The guy played through a broken foot. Do you think Leetch would've scored 30+ points in '93-94 if his foot was broken? Come on. McD seems to get injured every year at the wrong time and he could've been 100% healthy and rested going into this year's playoffs and still not made much of a difference. This team was playing a garbage defensive system.

This is what concerns me a little bit with McDonagh though. He puts himself in these spots to get injured more than others I feel like. Will his style age well? I think that's worthy of discussion.

 

[haohmaru]

This is what concerns me a little bit with McDonagh though. He puts himself in these spots to get injured more than others I feel like. Will his style age well? I think that's worthy of discussion.

Can't argue with that at all. Is it freak accidents or ?

 

[GAGLine]

And for every tank job like Pittsburgh and Chicago I'll give you Edmonton and Florida. Full rebuild doesn't necessarily mean success down the track.

It's very disingenuous to suggest that tanking works because Pittsburgh and Chicago won cups, or that it doesn't work because Edmonton and Florida were/are terrible despite tanking.

Building a team isn't about any one aspect. Pittsburgh and Chicago won not just because they tanked, but also because they made smart decisions. They drafted good players, they traded for good players and they signed good players.

Florida and Edmonton have been built almost exclusively through the draft, and in Edmonton's case, they have been really bad at drafting outside the 1st round.

No one method is a guarantee to win anything. Teams have to draft smart, trade smart and sign smart if they want to win the cup. In the last few years, we have gotten away from drafting and focused too much on the many-for-one type trades. We need to shift gears and start making some one-for-many trades like we did with Gaborik.

 

[Raspewtin]

By the number 8 team who lost to number two in the SCF.

Sharks are #3 in the 2nd half of the season.

Did I make an argument otherwise?

your wording heavily implied it.

 

[darko]

It's very disingenuous to suggest that tanking works because Pittsburgh and Chicago won cups, or that it doesn't work because Edmonton and Florida were/are terrible despite tanking.

Building a team isn't about any one aspect. Pittsburgh and Chicago won not just because they tanked, but also because they made smart decisions. They drafted good players, they traded for good players and they signed good players.

Florida and Edmonton have been built almost exclusively through the draft, and in Edmonton's case, they have been really bad at drafting outside the 1st round.

No one method is a guarantee to win anything. Teams have to draft smart, trade smart and sign smart if they want to win the cup. In the last few years, we have gotten away from drafting and focused too much on the many-for-one type trades. We need to shift gears and start making some one-for-many trades like we did with Gaborik.

That's the point I'm trying to make (in a roundabout kinda way).

Smart drafting plus smart personnel decisions goes a long way. You don't necessarily need to blow it up and get top picks. You can draft great players poutside of top-10 ( I mean look at Tarasenko).


Re-tool won't guarantee success either but IMO Rangers are in a position to re-tool because they already have some really good young talent.

 

[haohmaru]

your wording heavily implied it.

No, not at all. His statement was false. The best possession team didn't win the Cup, they went out in the first round. Had he said "the best possession team since January or since Mike Sullivan took over" then I wouldn't have said a word.

I didn't imply anything. I refuted his sentence as being factually incorrect, which it was.

 

[RangerBoy]

I remember being a little kid and the Penguins were horrible. They almost and should have beaten the Islanders during their Cup run. Randy Carlyle. Mike Bullard. Michel Dion. They have won 4 Cups. The Devils came to the area from Colorado. They have won 3 Cups. Rangers have just one. That's a little tough to take. To get that single Cup,so much was invested. Are the Rangers ever winning the Cup again? It's not about being "competitive".

 

[JanErixon20]

Revised, IMO:

Players to definitely keep (unless a crazy, can't reject offer) -
Lundqvist
Miller
Buchnevich
McDonagh
Skjei


Players they should keep, but could afford moving/losing:
Stepan
Fast
Lindberg
Mcilrath
Kreider
Hayes
Raanta


Players they should be actively looking to trade:
Brassard
Zuccarello
Nash
Girardi
Staal
Klein


Players that will be let go:
Moore
Stalberg
Boyle
E. Staal
Yandle (Unfortunately - but if we move M Staal or G somehow, maybe he stays)
Glass (Lol, I wish)

There's a similar theme among the players they should be actively looking to trade - age. The reasons that you would keep Zucc, Brass, and Klein are the exact reasons I'd trade them. Their value should be at a pretty high point right now, and the decline is coming. Little hope of moving G or Staal, but hey, never hurts to try.

I'm more with this one then then O/P, but he's not that far off, either. Although I'm on board with keeping Kreider and Hayes.

 

[haohmaru]

I remember being a little kid and the Penguins were horrible. They almost and should have beaten the Islanders during their Cup run. Randy Carlyle. Mike Bullard. Michel Dion. They have won 4 Cups. The Devils came to the area from Colorado. They have won 3 Cups. Rangers have just one. That's a little tough to take. To get that single Cup,so much was invested. Are the Rangers ever winning the Cup again? It's not about being "competitive".

St. Louis, San Jose, Montreal, Vancouver, Florida, Winnipeg, NYI, Columbus, Philadelphia, Wild, Nashville, Calgary, Edmonton, Arizona, Ottawa, Caps, Toronto, etc... aren't feeling sorry for you.

2009 Pittsburgh Penguins
2010 Chicago Blackhawks
2011 Boston Bruins
2012 Los Angeles Kings
2013 Chicago Blackhawks
2014 Los Angeles Kings
2015 Chicago Blackhawks
2016 Pittsburgh Penguins

^ that, however, is very irritating to look at.

 

[Ghost of jas]

From 2005-2015.

Top 10 picks:
Tampa - 5
Pens - 3
Sharks - 3
Blues - 2
NYR - 1

Top 5 picks:
Tampa - 3
Pens - 2
Blues - 2
Sharks - 0
Rangers - 0

My point is that even with top 5 picks, there are no guarantees.

I would venture a guess that of the top 10 D-men in the league, more than half of them were taken after #15.

 

[Irishguy42]

So, when do you guys think the Rangers will start making their off-season moves?

We have 3 weeks until 4th of July, which is a few days after free agency opens and the majority of deals will likely be done.

The only thing is that Gorton is supposedly going to be all-in on Vesey come August 15th. So that will be a while from now.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

So, when do you guys think the Rangers will start making their off-season moves?

We have 3 weeks until 4th of July, which is a few days after free agency opens and the majority of deals will likely be done.

The only thing is that Gorton is supposedly going to be all-in on Vesey come August 15th. So that will be a while from now.

I think once Expansion is officially announced along with the new cap number for next season.

 

[Trxjw]

For all the possession talk going on, I would have liked to see the reaction of people if the Rangers had gone out and added two historically poor possession players in Bonino and Kessel. I also remember plenty of people telling me how atrocious Trevor Daley was.

 

[haohmaru]

So, when do you guys think the Rangers will start making their off-season moves?

We have 3 weeks until 4th of July, which is a few days after free agency opens and the majority of deals will likely be done.

The only thing is that Gorton is supposedly going to be all-in on Vesey come August 15th. So that will be a while from now.

A couple of days before and leading up to the draft (6/24). If Nash or Brass or Steps are going someplace, I think it'll be before or at the draft. After 7/1 we'll be signing guys like Stalberg and Stoll.

(edit) That sounds like I don't like Stalberg and I do for what we paid him. Just not an "impact" kind of guy.

 

[Bruner4329]

Both Stepan and Brassard are 1st line centers. Lower end 1st line centers.

How many 1st line C's are there by your standards? 10?

The whole context of my point was around the discussion of trading Brassard. If you do that then you basically then have Stepan only. I am not comfortable with Hayes being a number 2 center. Just my opinion. People say we have all this depth at center but if we trade Brassard where is the depth?

 

[Bruner4329]

The Rangers' center depth is (was) among tops in the league and it's still a problem to some of you.

Again assuming you trade Brassard which is what the premise is, what is the depth after Stepan?

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Last time mcdonagh was fully healthy in the playoffs he matched doughty's production and that was without scoring in the first series... He turned it on against pitts and Montreal that year..

Mcdonagh isn't the problem the rest of the defense is

 

[Trxjw]

Because we really haven't had a top line center. Both Stepan and Brassard IMO are more 2nd line centers. Now you remove one and insert Hayes who at this point has shown nothing more than being a third line center and you have diluted the position. Having a bad year is one thing. Having a bad year because you came in out of shape to me is more concerting. He should be young and eager. Also he made an awful lot of dumb mistakes. IMO I also think he is a step too slow to be a 1 or 2 line center.

So if we trade Brassard, why is not having a top line center suddenly an issue when, according to you, we never had one to begin with?

 

[haohmaru]

The whole context of my point was around the discussion of trading Brassard. If you do that then you basically then have Stepan only. I am not comfortable with Hayes being a number 2 center. Just my opinion. People say we have all this depth at center but if we trade Brassard where is the depth?

Agree - this fanbase was crying for years over how weak we were down the middle and, now, it's finally a point of strength and people want to deal that strength away because it looks sexy on paper. Brassard just had, arguably, his best year. Stepan is a solid 2 way center. Hayes can be a good 3C or, if he develops nicely, a 2C and Lindberg is no slouch at 4.

I think Nash is our best forward but I also think he's the asset we can most afford to lose and get something decent back for. Personally, i don't trade away strength down the middle, guys on excellent contracts (McD, Zooks, Klein), or developing RFA's (Miller).

 

[GAGLine]

Agree - this fanbase was crying for years over how weak we were down the middle and, now, it's finally a point of strength and people want to deal that strength away because it looks sexy on paper. Brassard just had, arguably, his best year. Stepan is a solid 2 way center. Hayes can be a good 3C or, if he develops nicely, a 2C and Lindberg is no slouch at 4.

I think Nash is our best forward but I also think he's the asset we can most afford to lose and get something decent back for. Personally, i don't trade away strength down the middle, guys on excellent contracts (McD, Zooks, Klein), or developing RFA's (Miller).

We aren't saying that these players should be traded because they are bad. We are saying that we don't have enough good players and in order to get more, we need to trade one or two good players for 3 or 4 players who will be good in the future.

 

[Raspewtin]

For all the possession talk going on, I would have liked to see the reaction of people if the Rangers had gone out and added two historically poor possession players in Bonino and Kessel. I also remember plenty of people telling me how atrocious Trevor Daley was.

What?

 

[Bruner4329]

So if we trade Brassard, why is not having a top line center suddenly an issue when, according to you, we never had one to begin with?

Because if we trade Brassard we have one legit center. So who do you think other than Stepan is a center we can count on based on the current roster?