Speculation: Roster Building Thread VII (2019/2020)

[Amazing Kreiderman]

how are we affording stepan for 2 years at $6.5 mil?

Well, we'd be adding just 3.4m this season if we trade Strome away. Next season would be a disaster though

 

[RangerBoy]

WTF happened to Chris Kreider?

Toews entered Wednesday ranked 390th out of 391 eligible forwards across the NHL in scoring chances allowed per minute — only the Rangers’ Chris Kreider has allowed more. With the captain on the ice this year, opponents have hammered the Blackhawks 44-22 in scoring chances.

Jonathan Toews hopes he’s now climbing out of season-opening slump

Kreider has 8 goals in his last 48 games. One of those goals was an empty net goal. 42 games last season. 6 games this season. He scored his 20th last season before New Years Eve. His game has totally collapsed. He was a dominant player early last season. He dominated every shift. He held on to the puck looking to make a play. He looks lost. Zero confidence.

The entire team is collapsing.



The Rangers don’t fit on the chart. That’s how bad they have been so far this season.

 

[Ghost of jas]

WTF happened to Chris Kreider?



Jonathan Toews hopes he’s now climbing out of season-opening slump

Kreider has 8 goals in his last 48 games. One of those goals was an empty net goal. 42 games last season. 6 games this season. He scored his 20th last season before New Years Eve. His game has totally collapsed. He was a dominant player early last season. He dominated every shift. He held on to the puck looking to make a play. He looks lost. Zero confidence.

The entire team is collapsing.



The Rangers don’t fit on the chart. That’s how bad they have been so far this season.

Quittin’ for Quinton!

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Kreider doesnt wanna leave, doesnt want to take a short deal(he shouldn't), and it has his mind messed that's what's wrong with him. Same thing happened to Zuccarello until he finally realized he was gonna ruin his next contract if he didnt get things turned around.

 

[Leetch3]

Kreider is making the decision to not give him a contract easier...not helping his trade value though

 

[NYR Viper]

I think Kreider pretty much quit at last years deadline

 

[EpicDing]

How can a team collapse if it was never good?

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

As the days and games go by, I am increasingly ok with Kreider not being brought back

He just dosen't look good. I don't know what it is. You could deal with his scoring not being there, but even his underlying stats have just been horrendous, when they are usually pretty good.

It's been beaten to death, but Gorton should have moved him at the draft. The guy knows he's on the chopping block, and no one likes that feeling.

And I still just can't imagine that some team would give up less for a full year of Kreider, as opposed to getting him for a couple weeks at the deadline. Maybe it's just me

 

[The Crypto Guy]

WTF happened to Chris Kreider?



Jonathan Toews hopes he’s now climbing out of season-opening slump

Kreider has 8 goals in his last 48 games. One of those goals was an empty net goal. 42 games last season. 6 games this season. He scored his 20th last season before New Years Eve. His game has totally collapsed. He was a dominant player early last season. He dominated every shift. He held on to the puck looking to make a play. He looks lost. Zero confidence.

The entire team is collapsing.



The Rangers don’t fit on the chart. That’s how bad they have been so far this season.

Huge reason why i was pushing to trade Kreider in the offseason. His value is dropping by each passing game.

 

[NYR Viper]

I think we are beginning to see the pieces that should be here long-term. You're probably looking at:

Panarin
Zibanejad
Andersson
Howden
Kakko
Trouba
Fox
ADA

On the fence:
Lemieux
Buchnevich
Skjei
Hajek

Goners:
Kreider
Fast
Strome
Smith
Staal

That's A LOT of dead weight in that last group

 

[Edge]

I think Kreider pretty much quit at last years deadline

I'm in the same camp as Larry Brooks.

I was not comfortable bringing him back with this swirling over his head, and him not being glued to Zibanejad.

Six games into the season, my views haven't changed.

But, I also get that if a deal wasn't struck at the draft, there wasn't a standout deal that the Rangers wanted to make.

Unfortunately, I think what makes the Kreider situation even more difficult is that there's not a list of guys who have stepped up, or look like they are about to step up, in his place.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

But, I also get that if a deal wasn't struck at the draft, there wasn't a standout deal that the Rangers wanted to make.

Any idea what they would consider a "standout" deal? At the deadline, he's probably bringing back a late first and B/C prospect. I find it hard to believe they couldn't get that at the draft from somebody

Unless Gorton was hoping Kreider has an amazing year and with the possibility he could bring back more

 

[Kovalev27]

If he were going to be dealt it should have been over the summer. We messed up with zucc we’re doing it again with kreider.

If not we should have signed him by now.

 

[Fitzy]

I think we are beginning to see the pieces that should be here long-term. You're probably looking at:

Panarin
Zibanejad
Andersson
Howden
Kakko
Trouba
Fox
ADA

On the fence:
Lemieux
Buchnevich
Skjei
Hajek

Goners:
Kreider
Fast
Strome
Smith
Staal

That's A LOT of dead weight in that last group

I bolded the two that I'm up in the air on- not personally, but from what I think management is considering.

NYR's bottom 6 is shambolic enough that they may just decide to keep Fast as a known commodity. Otherwise they're pretty much going to have to build a new one from the bottom up.

ADA has not looked great so far this year. As long as Trouba continues to be excellent and Fox looks to grow into a 2nd pairing role, they may consider him surplus to requirements.

 

[Edge]

Any idea what they would consider a "standout" deal? At the deadline, he's probably bringing back a late first and B/C prospect. I find it hard to believe they couldn't get that at the draft from somebody

Unless Gorton was hoping Kreider has an amazing year and with the possibility he could bring back more

Kreider was involving in a number of different discussions around the draft, especially Colorado. But once the draft broke the way it did, Colorado wasn't going down that path --- and rightfully so I might add.

I got the sense that the offers in the following weeks really weren't there. I could also see a scenario where the Rangers felt the difference between what they'd get in the summer, compared to the TDL, was virtually nonexistent. So in that scenario, I could see them holding onto Kreider, hoping he could spell the second line, and not having to rush someone into that spot.

Based on what we've seen, I can at least see the thought process behind that when looking at how the season has started for Buch, Kakko, Kravtsov and company. Again, things probably look even worse without Kreider.

Of course the downside to that is you find yourself hoping Kreider suddenly starts netting goals and can at least get on his regular pace. Otherwise you end up selling low. I'd also argue that Kreider, based on comments made by those who've actually spent time around him, is exactly the type of player you DO NOT want to have something like this hovering over his head.

 

[Edge]

If he were going to be dealt it should have been over the summer. We messed up with zucc we’re doing it again with kreider.

If not we should have signed him by now.

The market for Zucc, for all intents and purposes was not even what we got for him. Otherwise we would've moved him sooner.

I think there's a mindset that the market for certain players is higher, and that we should've dealt them earlier for better returns. While one might be able to make a sound argument about moving them sooner, for the sake of getting it over and done with, I've yet to see or hear anything that indicates the market was actually better at an earlier date.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I'd also argue that Kreider, based on comments made by those who've actually spent time around him, is exactly the type of player you DO NOT want to have something like this hovering over his head.

Great haha

 

[kovazub94]

I think we have one big issue that Gorton really must deal with ASAP.

I am the first to say that we must be patient and have reasonable expectations. But, its also important to slowly but surely move the process in the right direction. Hence why for example we shouldn't be stuffing all kids into the line-up at the same time, nobody would benefit from that. To play a kid, you must be able to support him enough.

In this perspective we have a few veterans on the roster. And given how our roster look at the wing and defense -- we need to have centers that are fairly strong defensively and at getting the puck up ice. I think its very clear that Ryan Strome doesn't cut it in that regard. He isn't at all that strong energetic center type that thrives at covering up for others and getting the puck up ice. He can be OK in a working environment where he get to play to his strength. As such -- he is an awful fit for us as one of a few "vet" players in the line-up.

Parallel to this we must groom the young centers we have in the system. They must also get ice and been given an opportunity to develop.

Hence I think Gorton immediately must get busy with either moving Strome out, or to the wing, and replacing him with a center that can support the kids. And it shouldn't really matter much if at all if that center has any abilities around the net or in the last fifth of the ice so to speak. The key is to get someone that is strong on his skates, can get back fast, and can drive the puck up ice. A strong 3 C really. Don't matter which line he is on, but that type of support is what our forwards must get. Remember that we also have very offensive minded Ds along with at least one bad defensiveminded D in Staal. We can't have Ziba plus a suspect vet plus two kids.

Agree with premise, Ola, but not the conclusion.

I think Strome is sufficient to be that energetic, hardworking vet for this team. His play has been improving the last three games and the 3rd period turnaround last night started mostly by Fast, Strome and Buchnevich (and Lemieux).

Similarly, in terms of supporting kids the team would need to split Zibanejad and Panarin, which would also help either one go against lesser opposition.
Top 9 before Chytil returns:

Kreider - Zibanejad - Buchnevich
Panarin - Strome - Kakko
Lemieux - Andersson - Fast

Top 9 after Chytil returns

Kreider - Zibanejad - Buchnevich
Panarin - Chytil - Strome
Lemieux - Andersson - Kakko

 

[Fitzy]

Strome has been so much more effective playing with the grinders, so IMO he should continue to do so instead of being placed back on a skill line.

Works better with the K.I.S.S. approach of a Lemieux or Smith who would rather take bad angle shots and crash the net rather than make finesse plays.

 

[Avery16]

Think his wife's from Florida. Might have something to do with that.

You’re telling me he couldn’t sign a 1 year deal for that money with FLA on July 1?

 

[Ola]

Kovazub- Maybe you are right. But I do think that Strome needs strong wingers to handle a lot of minutes.

I also think that Kreider is a waste next to Panarin and Ziba. Jesper Fast could easily do the same job.

 

[Kupo]

WTF happened to Chris Kreider?

Nothing. He's the same inconsistent player he's always been.

 

[kovazub94]

Strome has been so much more effective playing with the grinders, so IMO he should continue to do so instead of being placed back on a skill line.

Works better with the K.I.S.S. approach of a Lemieux or Smith who would rather take bad angle shots and crash the net rather than make finesse plays.

IMHO his straight lines style could work with someone else bringing creativity into play. Strome got enough hockey sense to be in involved and in the right place with higher-end players. Not enough offense to be on the 1st line but might be just enough for the 2nd.

 

[kovazub94]

Kovazub- Maybe you are right. But I do think that Strome needs strong wingers to handle a lot of minutes.

I also think that Kreider is a waste next to Panarin and Ziba. Jesper Fast could easily do the same job.

Kreider looked lost being assigned a RW spot (to accommodate Panarin staying LW). Sometimes wings are NOT interchangeable.

 

[wafflepadsave]

I think we are beginning to see the pieces that should be here long-term. You're probably looking at:

Panarin
Zibanejad
Andersson
Howden
Kakko
Trouba
Fox
ADA

On the fence:
Lemieux
Buchnevich
Skjei
Hajek

Goners:
Kreider
Fast
Strome
Smith
Staal

That's A LOT of dead weight in that last group

I just don’t see much dynamics out of howden. Help me with my unbelief.