Roster Building thread - Part IX - (2024 edition)

[zlev]

that said i would not move othmann unless i thought we were truly that one player away from being a top 4 cup favorite. right now we are not (unless that player was like, McDavid).

 

[Mac n Gs]

Username fits appropriately right now

 

[KOVALEV022473]

He can fix the position but I don’t think he’d be able to get those two to play better. There’s a difference between these two things. For example Vatrano helped fix the position and complement Kreider and Zibanejad who were already playing well.

All he has to do is shoot the f***ing puck!

 

[McRanger]

The problem isn't being skeptical. The problem is giving up. The team has great special teams and isn't good enough 5v5? That's why you go out and get players to get better. If the team was already perfect then there would be no need to add anyone. Not to mention, given the nature of hockey, in the absolute worst case scenario they would still be like 40% to win any series. There is also extreme overrating of our mid tier prospects like Bedard/Sykora. They are nice prospects but everyone has guys like them.

I agree with the sentiment but is there any real way to become a good 5v5 team with Lingren and Trouba playing half the game? And I really dont see either going anyway or even having a lesser role.

 

[Kords]

High praise when the Canadian media likes a NY Ranger this much

 

[SA16]

I agree with the sentiment but is there any real way to become a good 5v5 team with Lingren and Trouba playing half the game? And I really dont see either going anyway or even having a lesser role.

The ideal moves may not be to try and become better at 5v5 but to instead look to target guys who draw (and therefore take since they often go hand and and) a lot of minor penalties to increase the percentage of the game played at special teams. Someone like a Bunting or Garland type.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I agree with the sentiment but is there any real way to become a good 5v5 team with Lingren and Trouba playing half the game? And I really dont see either going anyway or even having a lesser role.

It's more than half the game.

The 2 of them account for more than 60% of the game.

Theoretically you can put the doo doo duo together 5v5 and give them 3rd pair/PK minutes but thats enough to cost you too. Lindgren looks bad with Fox, he's looked even worse with every other D aside from Gustafsson.

I've accepted that Trouba is a necessary evil at this point. If they're going to move him, it'll be this summer or next. Lindgren doesn't have to be one as he's free to be moved anywhere. If they won't move on from him now, it should be priority #1 this summer but he really shouldn't be a Ranger beyond next week (he 99% will be.) They both suck but only one of them is dragging down Fox.

Lavi's refusal to split up Lindgren-Fox and Kreider-Zibanejad may very well end up being his downfall here. Laf has become a player under his watch so we can be thankful for that (if thats the only thing that comes of his tenure here, f***ing great I'll take it) but he needs to sack up and stop appeasing his underperforming veteran players. Coddling them hasn't worked and they've gotten more than enough time to work out the kinks. They aren't going away.

I think a logical, if they're going to try anything move would have been to flip the centers on the top 2 lines to see if that would get Zibanejad going (because I'm sure that Kreider-Trocheck-Vesey would have worked pretty well) but nope, jumble up everything and keep Kreider-Zibaenejad welded together.

Just f***ing stupid.

 

[Leonardo87]

@Daves a mess You ok dude?

 

[bernmeister]

We have young bottom 6 , borderline middle 6 players on the way

I don’t give them up unless it’s for a very good longer term solution.

They are pivotal to keep in a hard capped league and staying competitive imo.

Yes, we don't give up our youth and if possible we add youth.
Sell high on Vesey
have both Oth + Ber here NOW
get valuable experience NOW
we are prob ok come POs.

I like Seeler. Physical guy who can defend. I think we desperately need that element on D. A stay at home guy with size who can keep teams away from Igor. I see that as our biggest weakness. Every team gives up odd man chances. Im worried about the Dzone play. Yes, the forwards need to get back but our guys are not strong enough (Lindgren/Gus) or not consistent enough (Trouba/Miller). Foxy and Schneider have easily been our 2 best D this year and they actualy do a good job keep guys to the outside and away from the blue paint. I know people hate Edmundson/Seeler types but we need a guy like that.

Yes + no
yes, you are correct we need a guy like that, but
OVERRIDING
is that if the guy is a pylon who can't skate
FORGET IT, NOT WORTH IT

We have a legit chance to win the cup, and nobody here wants to part with anything to fill the holes we need to get better.

b'c history proves bern is right, win now does not work, it is wrong
and the faster all the addicts who want unreal win now
bend, buckle and break
and stop saying throw useful, precious resources we cannot afford to squander at win now that doesn't work
the more likely we will be to intelligently max our chances, barring, of course, injury or any other such x factor

Correct, we don't want to trade our future away to add players who barely do anything to move the needle. Let Drury figure out a way to get a couple players by using our 2nd, and lower level prospects like Robertson.

yes and no
We should prob not give away our 2nd, tho I will show an open mind if you have someone that may be an exception to the rule and want me with an open mind to consider

We should have already had Robertson here and gone thru growing pains
real or imagined, severe or slight

Selling high on Lindgren, Jones and Vesey now is smart

Remember, if a guy like vesey does not = a good RD for this run
Vesey + lesser pick = better pick

How did we get KAM? We bundled lesser pick w/better pick to move up.
But the trick is to actually have those picks at the ready.
REMEMBER THAT PEOPLE

I've been saying hold onto the picks the last couple years but at some point before Panarin drops off we need to go for it. This appears to be that year. No way I'm dealing Vesey, he's probably the best value deal in the league. I'm against moving young roster players or Othmann and Perrault.
...

NO NO NO
this is letting the situation control you instead of you controlling the situation
learn w/da bern
build
that is the answer
patient, intelligent build

The team isn't missing a major component though and you have to look at roles. The player being brought in isn't going to be on PP1. That's solidified. The PK is already very good so there isn't really a need to bring some elite PKer to fix that issue. You're going to be looking at a player who, predominantly, needs to be able to produce at 5v5 and the Rangers should be paying for such as player as such.

Getting a guy who has 50 points right now with 40 points scored on the PP will not improve the team because he won't produce in the role he is going to be looked at to play here. That same 50 point player would cost a 1st + but wouldn't move the needle much in terms of the on ice product.

The Rangers could use a 3C. Push Brodzinski down. The issue is paying for guys who play A LOT MORE minutes than what they will be seeing here and who will not be seeing any PP time like they were on their non-contending teams.

Yes and no
yeah, we could use a better 3C but as I've said CHEMISTRY IS IMPORTANT
I would not experiment w/change there unless forced to.
Brodz is fine on that line w/those guys whether that line is 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th
don't change the line right now

Drury is likely adding C, RW and depth D at the deadline. I want to see Edstrom stay on the 4th line with Goodrow and Vesey. Brodz can be the 13F and Rempe can go back to playing 14 minutes in Hartford.

The 4th line goals the past two games are the type that win tight playoff games. The size speed and crease crashing will make a difference

Hell to the no
Rempe is here to stay
ONLY ? is if we try Ed elsewhere, viz. at pivot Kreid - Ed - Zib
b'c half the time
Zib plays better as a W
and the other half as a C

How many time has any team won the cup after trading away assets and draft picks?! This is a ridiculous point only one team wins the cup every year.

NO it is not ridiculous
it is actually obvious and logical
arguably marginal improvement that is not affordably retained after playoff push = cannibalizing assets, and not just = assets, but those better serving long term needs to keep cost down
WHICH IS UNFORTUNATELY PIVOTAL GIVEN REALITY OF HARD CAP

I agree but Goodrow and Vesey aren’t sitting. Barring injury I want Rempe to get more minutes and definitely not sitting

No, you sell high on Vesey and use Good for relief

Rempe stays, Rempe plays

He's played C and W.

Edstrom is a natural C so whether or not Trenin would line up there isn't relevant for me.

this is why, I wanted to see if affordable payment we can live with in specific chemistry would get us Byfield, but that ship has apparently left.
I wuz right.
Byfield is turning out to be something special.
But pt here is would be a monster line Kreid-By-Zib

now Ed is obv not By, but might be serviceable getting Zib to stick to 1 position
Kreid-Ed-Zib
bread tro LaF
Cuylle - Brodz - KK
Othman - Good - Rem

Since Brodz has played well i think it would be good to bring in another depth forward who can play both the wing and center, for depth.

Ideally if you can find a RW for Mika, then Vesey can slide down back to the 4th and now you are looking at adding another complimentary 3rd line winger/center who can jump in for Brodz - sending him to the 4th with Goodrow and Vesey - or leave the 3rd line alone and add to the 4th.

Ideally this would be a player whos better than Brodz and can play in his position, but he needs to be able to skate and cover ice like he does- Having the flexibility to jump in as a center removes the potential need for Goodrow to play up and thats something they should avoid.

pls see above

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

High praise when the Canadian media likes a NY Ranger this much

The Sportsnet/TSN talking heads consistently spew some of the dumbest most inane old boys club takes and cliches you’ll ever hear. I enjoy hate-watching all the Leafs content. It’s like the worst of the stuff you’ll read on HFBoards but people are getting paid to say it to a giant audience

 

[Fitzy]

Ten bucks says the playoffs will be a crapshoot again with regular season position meaning nothing.

I’d rather just keep trucking and stay the course

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

He can fix the position but I don’t think he’d be able to get those two to play better. There’s a difference between these two things. For example Vatrano helped fix the position and complement Kreider and Zibanejad who were already playing well.

I think Eberle complements them infinitely better. He’s a much more skilled puck carrier and skater in transition which those two desperately need. KZ haven’t been good with the “shooter who can’t do anything else” types in Tarasenko/Vatrano. If you check moneypuck numbers both lines were extremely shit in terms of offensive generation.

What I really don’t understand is why they aren’t using these last few games before the deadline to give Berard a trial period in the top 9 while he’s playing extremely well in the AHL. Instead they call up a WWE character

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

The ideal moves may not be to try and become better at 5v5 but to instead look to target guys who draw (and therefore take since they often go hand and and) a lot of minor penalties to increase the percentage of the game played at special teams. Someone like a Bunting or Garland type.

If we only we had a 4th liner with tons of size and speed who draws a shit ton of penalties and scores more often than Zibanejad

 

[TGWL]

Yes, we don't give up our youth and if possible we add youth.
Sell high on Vesey
have both Oth + Ber here NOW
get valuable experience NOW
we are prob ok come POs.

What is selling high on Vesey? What are we getting here? Are you playing NHL 24, where you just trade a pick plus a player for a higher pick, and then repeat until you get the best pick in the end? Vesey is signed for next season. So is trading Vesey + 3/4th, worth getting a late second?

 

[Gardner McKay]

Ten bucks says the playoffs will be a crapshoot again with regular season position meaning nothing.

I’d rather just keep trucking and stay the course

I'm fine with that. If there is a deal to be had similar to Vatrano for a 4th, by all means. Other than that, nothing drastic.

 

[Kords]

Shed all the salary if EP breaks loose

 

[Gardner McKay]

Shed all the salary if EP breaks loose

There is no deal to be had. It would be a 1:1 deal with another team most likely. That would be the biggest of big pipe dreams.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Yes, we don't give up our youth and if possible we add youth.
Sell high on Vesey

You lost me here. Guy plays way above his contract value. Don't know why you'd want to move that type of cheap depth.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You lost me here. Guy plays way above his contract value. Don't know why you'd want to move that type of depth.

Basically this.

We need to start shedding the guys who aren't hitting at least the bare minimum and/or are detriments on people being able to do that.

Lindgren, Trouba, Goodrow.

We're stuck with Zibanejad.

 

[Kupo]

Yes, we don't give up our youth and if possible we add youth.
Sell high on Vesey
have both Oth + Ber here NOW
get valuable experience NOW
we are prob ok come POs.



Yes + no
yes, you are correct we need a guy like that, but
OVERRIDING
is that if the guy is a pylon who can't skate
FORGET IT, NOT WORTH IT


b'c history proves bern is right, win now does not work, it is wrong
and the faster all the addicts who want unreal win now
bend, buckle and break
and stop saying throw useful, precious resources we cannot afford to squander at win now that doesn't work
the more likely we will be to intelligently max our chances, barring, of course, injury or any other such x factor


yes and no
We should prob not give away our 2nd, tho I will show an open mind if you have someone that may be an exception to the rule and want me with an open mind to consider

We should have already had Robertson here and gone thru growing pains
real or imagined, severe or slight

Selling high on Lindgren, Jones and Vesey now is smart

Remember, if a guy like vesey does not = a good RD for this run
Vesey + lesser pick = better pick

How did we get KAM? We bundled lesser pick w/better pick to move up.
But the trick is to actually have those picks at the ready.
REMEMBER THAT PEOPLE


NO NO NO
this is letting the situation control you instead of you controlling the situation
learn w/da bern
build
that is the answer
patient, intelligent build


Yes and no
yeah, we could use a better 3C but as I've said CHEMISTRY IS IMPORTANT
I would not experiment w/change there unless forced to.
Brodz is fine on that line w/those guys whether that line is 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th
don't change the line right now


Hell to the no
Rempe is here to stay
ONLY ? is if we try Ed elsewhere, viz. at pivot Kreid - Ed - Zib
b'c half the time
Zib plays better as a W
and the other half as a C


NO it is not ridiculous
it is actually obvious and logical
arguably marginal improvement that is not affordably retained after playoff push = cannibalizing assets, and not just = assets, but those better serving long term needs to keep cost down
WHICH IS UNFORTUNATELY PIVOTAL GIVEN REALITY OF HARD CAP



No, you sell high on Vesey and use Good for relief

Rempe stays, Rempe plays



this is why, I wanted to see if affordable payment we can live with in specific chemistry would get us Byfield, but that ship has apparently left.
I wuz right.
Byfield is turning out to be something special.
But pt here is would be a monster line Kreid-By-Zib

now Ed is obv not By, but might be serviceable getting Zib to stick to 1 position
Kreid-Ed-Zib
bread tro LaF
Cuylle - Brodz - KK
Othman - Good - Rem



pls see above

Vesey goes nowhere. He's one of the best 4th liners in the game signed for 800k. He put up 25P last year and will finish around the same this year. He's worth more than a 3rd or 4th.

 

[effen]

Best players gotta be best players. If K/Z don't step up 5v5, nothing matters. No amount of not-Trouba or not-Lindgren is going to fix them being donuts at even strength with 1 and done (at best) rushes.

If they do step up it's a rising tide situation that's gonna make the whole team better.

Depth adds only. Nothing market price. Salvation lies within.

 

[bernmeister]

What is selling high on Vesey? What are we getting here? Are you playing NHL 24, where you just trade a pick plus a player for a higher pick, and then repeat until you get the best pick in the end? Vesey is signed for next season. So is trading Vesey + 3/4th, worth getting a late second?

arguably yes
tho obv step 1 is having better pick
you still have to actually make a good selection

but my pt remains
to get a guy like KAM odds go up if you can bicle picks

 

[bernmeister]

You lost me here. Guy plays way above his contract value. Don't know why you'd want to move that type of cheap depth.

if he commands enuf premium coming back, you do it.
We need to give Oth + Ber mins
DO IT

Vesey goes nowhere. He's one of the best 4th liners in the game signed for 800k. He put up 25P last year and will finish around the same this year. He's worth more than a 3rd or 4th.

we should get more than that.
I said like him + a 4th for 2nd
something-ish like that

 

[effen]

if he commands enuf premium coming back, you do it.
We need to give Oth + Ber mins
DO IT


we should get more than that.
I said like him + a 4th for 2nd
something-ish like that

no

 

[Savant]

Rightfully or wrongfully, this is starting to look a lot like Kakko for a center