Robin Lehner, Thomas Griess predictions/“The Korn Effect”

[Frankie41987]

Thought it was interesting to look at the breakdown of Greiss vs. Lehner in terms of stats

Greiss has saved 100% of low-danger shots on the year. That's really impressive and basically means he hasn't let in a bad goal yet. Lehner has done much better on High Danger shots saving 94% vs 80% for Greiss. In general, the team gives up more High danger shots when Lehner is in net. Also, it's generally up to the defense to prevent high danger situations and as a team we are still giving up a ton even compared to last year. Based on shot attempts and high danger shot attempts, the biggest difference this year is goaltending for us. It seems to me that we are giving up different types of high danger shots, last year seemed to be much more 2 on 1's and breakaways vs. slot shots this year. I don't have any data to back up that last point but that seems to be my general observation.

 

[CREW99AW]

Really?
The majority of this board was ready to drive Greiss out of town faster than a NY minute?

I blamed the coaching staff's defensive scheme .
Glad to see Halak rebounding too.

 

[Newsworthy]

I blamed the coaching staff's defensive scheme .
Glad to see Halak rebounding too.

Last year Greiss was atrocious allowing soft goals and late goals at end of games. The player has to stop the puck from going in the net regardless of how many shots he faces.

 

[CupHolders]

Last year Greiss was atrocious allowing soft goals and late goals at end of games. The player has to stop the puck from going in the net regardless of how many shots he faces.

Yes he was. But with Capuano as coach, he wasn't as bad. With Trotz as coach he's also not as bad (understatement for the sake of argument). Additionally, the defense was better under Capuano and Trotz. Penalty kill was also better under Capuano and Trotz.

So while Greiss (and all players) should always be held responsible for their individual performance, so should the professionals tasked in helping correct (as best as possible) whatever issues he or other players may be exhibiting.

 

[Newsworthy]

Yes he was. But with Capuano as coach, he wasn't as bad. With Trotz as coach he's also not as bad (understatement for the sake of argument). Additionally, the defense was better under Capuano and Trotz. Penalty kill was also better under Capuano and Trotz.

So while Greiss (and all players) should always be held responsible for their individual performance, so should the professionals tasked in helping correct (as best as possible) whatever issues he or other players may be exhibiting.

I agree but don't forget how people killed Snow for giving Greiss a contract extension which looks like a bargain right now with the way he has played.

So do we still bash Snow for Greiss?

Then you must also give Weight credit for Barzal's Calder trophy and Lees 40 goal season and Baileys career year and Eberle looking great. Can we blame Trotz for how bad Leddy has played this year? At least last season he put the puck in the net. And so on and so forth.
My point is people are given Korn and Trotz too much credit and I love Trotz. Weight was put in a tough situation. And sure Nelson looks more defensively responsible which credit the staff but Hickey looks just as bad as last season.
And since it's obvious we don't know more than LL or Trotz I'll just end my post.

 

[CupHolders]

I agree but don't forget how people killed Snow for giving Greiss a contract extension which looks like a bargain right now with the way he has played.

So do we still bash Snow for Greiss?

Then you must also give Weight credit for Barzal's Calder trophy and Lees 40 goal season and Baileys career year and Eberle looking great. Can we blame Trotz for how bad Leddy has played this year? At least last season he put the puck in the net. And so on and so forth.
My point is people are given Korn and Trotz too much credit and I love Trotz. Weight was put in a tough situation. And sure Nelson looks more defensively responsible which credit the staff but Hickey looks just as bad as last season.
And since it's obvious we don't know more than LL or Trotz I'll just end my post.

My thing has always been that one can't JUST take a reductionist view on specific players or moves. In the case of Weight and Snow you will always find INSTANCES of good transactions and/or player development. But that has to be tempered with the larger picture, or an evaluation of the overall success of the team.

Let's just use Barzal as an example. I often give Snow credit for acquiring the means to draft him (because he did). But that doesn't absolve him from his team ultimately only succeeding to achieve just below mediocrity. As for Weight, I give him credit for giving Barzal and Bailey the means to gain their offensive confidence. But had he continued on as coach, I'm pretty sure other aspects of Barzal's game would not develop as necessary.

So where does that leave us? Snow and Weight were bad (historically under some metrics). But it would be an absolute lie to try to discredit the good moves that they made. Which are numerous when you look at some of the vets and youth coming up. But in no way is that enough to justify them staying on... not suggesting that you were arguing for them to do so.

 

[PK Cronin]

I agree but don't forget how people killed Snow for giving Greiss a contract extension which looks like a bargain right now with the way he has played.

So do we still bash Snow for Greiss?

Then you must also give Weight credit for Barzal's Calder trophy and Lees 40 goal season and Baileys career year and Eberle looking great. Can we blame Trotz for how bad Leddy has played this year? At least last season he put the puck in the net. And so on and so forth.
My point is people are given Korn and Trotz too much credit and I love Trotz. Weight was put in a tough situation. And sure Nelson looks more defensively responsible which credit the staff but Hickey looks just as bad as last season.
And since it's obvious we don't know more than LL or Trotz I'll just end my post.

Greiss' contract is still bad, yes. There was zero reason to hand that type of deal to a career backup. It's too early to actually judge what type of effect Korn or Trotz has had on the goaltending. Early sample size is saying that everything is working out rather well, but there's plenty of time and goalie get hot/cold all the time. We know what Greiss is, a career backup who can get hot from time to time. Halak was much more solidified as a 1A/1B type of goalie, but would also flounder for long periods of time and was very enigmatic during his entire career.

 

[YearlyLottery]

I agree but don't forget how people killed Snow for giving Greiss a contract extension which looks like a bargain right now with the way he has played.

So do we still bash Snow for Greiss?

Then you must also give Weight credit for Barzal's Calder trophy and Lees 40 goal season and Baileys career year and Eberle looking great. Can we blame Trotz for how bad Leddy has played this year? At least last season he put the puck in the net. And so on and so forth.
My point is people are given Korn and Trotz too much credit and I love Trotz. Weight was put in a tough situation. And sure Nelson looks more defensively responsible which credit the staff but Hickey looks just as bad as last season.
And since it's obvious we don't know more than LL or Trotz I'll just end my post.

Weight and Trotz had pretty much the same team. Oh besides Trotz doesn't have the former best player on the team. Instead of judging coaches based on player performance, they should be judged based on the teams performance. I don't care if Barzal had 200 points last year, they still didn't make the playoffs and were not close. Trotz is taking a team who should have been out of it by now and has them tied for first place in the division.

 

[Islanders4Cups]

Halak played well last year after he was sent down to the AHL. But Before that he was a disaster. For the year in whole he was much better than Greiss who was dreadful. The majority of fans on this board gave up on Greiss last season including myself. Wasn' t a crazy debate about Weights system affecting Greiss or Halaks play. The blame on Weight was always secondary. Lehner wasn't that good in Buffalo on a team that struggled mightily. Give Korn and Trotz credit but blaming Snow a GM and Weight for bad goalie play is ridiculous. Saying a goalies numbers are skewed because of the system and bad coaching is another thing.
Who gets the credit for Greiss, Halaks, and Lehners bounce back years this season?
Is it coaching or the players themselves?

I am starting to lean towards throwing out last years performance by the goalies because of Weight and his coaching. It is still too early to say it for sure but both Greiss and Halak’s play so far this season seems to be justifying it.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Greiss' contract is still bad, yes. There was zero reason to hand that type of deal to a career backup. It's too early to actually judge what type of effect Korn or Trotz has had on the goaltending. Early sample size is saying that everything is working out rather well, but there's plenty of time and goalie get hot/cold all the time. We know what Greiss is, a career backup who can get hot from time to time. Halak was much more solidified as a 1A/1B type of goalie, but would also flounder for long periods of time and was very enigmatic during his entire career.

No, no. It looks like a bargain because of 3 games.

 

[Newsworthy]

Weight and Trotz had pretty much the same team. Oh besides Trotz doesn't have the former best player on the team. Instead of judging coaches based on player performance, they should be judged based on the teams performance. I don't care if Barzal had 200 points last year, they still didn't make the playoffs and were not close. Trotz is taking a team who should have been out of it by now and has them tied for first place in the division.

Head coaches will always be judged by team performance. If a team wins the Stanley Cup all is right. I will always be a fan of Doug Weights but hiring Trotz was the smart move.
But how do you judge Mitch Korn's performance?

 

[YearlyLottery]

Head coaches will always be judged by team performance. If a team wins the Stanley Cup all is right. I will always be a fan of Doug Weights but hiring Trotz was the smart move.
But how do you judge Mitch Korn's performance?

Of course you have the judge Korn on goaltending performance, he is not the head coach but the goaltending coach.

 

[Cygnusx1018]

Of course you have the judge Korn on goaltending performance, he is not the head coach but the goaltending coach.

Both Korn and Greco. Props to both

 

[ML19]

What kind of sick and twisted parallel universe am I currently living in?

 

[Lame Lambert]

What kind of sick and twisted parallel universe am I currently living in?

More proof that Doug Weight was one of the worst NHL coaches in the last 15 years

 

[ebergeist]

More proof that Doug Weight was one of the worst NHL coaches in the last 15 years

Harsh but true. How about Greiss tonight? Solid goaltending, he starts to take that number one spot, right?

 

[Lame Lambert]

Harsh but true. How about Greiss tonight? Solid goaltending, he starts to take that number one spot, right?

I have no idea. Lehner was playing some great hockey before the injury as well. He has much better technique, but Greiss is seeing everything right now. I’d start Greiss the next couple of games just to make sure Lehner is 100%.

 

[aronjudge11]

Keep in mind, it's extremely unlikely Weight came up with that offensive strategy on his own . You probably can't find a coach in hockey not coaching the system the GM wants. But they both had to go. When you keep hiring rookie coaches you run the risk of some bad ones. Isles managed to get two worthwhile ones the last thirty years

 

[PK Cronin]

Keep in mind, it's extremely unlikely Weight came up with that offensive strategy on his own . You probably can't find a coach in hockey not coaching the system the GM wants. But they both had to go. When you keep hiring rookie coaches you run the risk of some bad ones. Isles managed to get two worthwhile ones the last thirty years

GM's do NOT tell the coach what system to run.

 

[aronjudge11]

In your opinion. The Yankees have thirty front office people telling Aron Boone what to do during games and you think the Islanders GM says do whatever you want? Doug would of been fired way sooner if that game plan was all his.

 

[PK Cronin]

In your opinion. The Yankees have thirty front office people telling Aron Boone what to do during games and you think the Islanders GM says do whatever you want? Doug would of been fired way sooner if that game plan was all his.

This isn't baseball, just stop. It's not an opinion, it's a f***ing fact. Coaches get fired and hired all the time, they run virtually the same system everywhere they go. Why? Because that's what they f***ing run. It's not because the GM told them how to do it or is tweaking the lineup.

 

[CodeE]

More proof that Doug Weight was one of the worst NHL coaches in the last 15 years

The decision to not look at a single outside coach after Cappy and just give the job to Weight because he's already on the payroll was such a lazy, selfish, nepotist move. Ugh I'm so glad the ol' boys club has been permanently evicted from the premises.

 

[Newsworthy]

More proof that Doug Weight was one of the worst NHL coaches in the last 15 years

Doug Weight stops shots and makes saves also.

 

[Taswell]

In your opinion. The Yankees have thirty front office people telling Aron Boone what to do during games and you think the Islanders GM says do whatever you want? Doug would of been fired way sooner if that game plan was all his.

Maybe stick to baseball.

 

[aronjudge11]

Doug was snows assistant GM and and a bench coach for years working under snow. Snow was forced to make a change. He picks Doug weight, knowing what system he will use. He could of hired dozens of other candidates with proven systems. He wanted Doug's system. Or do we think snow never asked him what system he was going to use. it's like saying the Mets new GM can do whatever he wants...in reality he needed to tell the owners what they wanted to hear to get hired. The owners were going to pick the guy that will do to the team, what they were also thinking they should do. I'm sure al arbour was not making decisions on ice time and game plans on his own. You feel very strongly on this topic as if it is insulting to you at the thought of A GM telling the coach what to do.