Robin Lehner, Thomas Griess predictions/“The Korn Effect”

[CupHolders]

Doug Weight stops shots and makes saves also.

No but his structure is what determines where the shots primarily come from; and that impacts the likelihood of them being saved.

 

[Lame Lambert]

Doug Weight stops shots and makes saves also.

So you must’ve missed the part where Doug Weight told the team to stop blocking shots

 

[YearlyLottery]

Doug was snows assistant GM and and a bench coach for years working under snow. Snow was forced to make a change. He picks Doug weight, knowing what system he will use. He could of hired dozens of other candidates with proven systems. He wanted Doug's system. Or do we think snow never asked him what system he was going to use. it's like saying the Mets new GM can do whatever he wants...in reality he needed to tell the owners what they wanted to hear to get hired. The owners were going to pick the guy that will do to the team, what they were also thinking they should do. I'm sure al arbour was not making decisions on ice time and game plans on his own. You feel very strongly on this topic as if it is insulting to you at the thought of A GM telling the coach what to do.

You said it was Snow's system and not changing to say it was Weight's system but since Snow liked it he hired him.

 

[CodeE]

Doug was snows assistant GM and and a bench coach for years working under snow. Snow was forced to make a change. He picks Doug weight, knowing what system he will use. He could of hired dozens of other candidates with proven systems. He wanted Doug's system. Or do we think snow never asked him what system he was going to use. it's like saying the Mets new GM can do whatever he wants...in reality he needed to tell the owners what they wanted to hear to get hired. The owners were going to pick the guy that will do to the team, what they were also thinking they should do. I'm sure al arbour was not making decisions on ice time and game plans on his own. You feel very strongly on this topic as if it is insulting to you at the thought of A GM telling the coach what to do.

That's the point though - what was Cappy's system? What was Weight's system? Under Trotz you can point to low defensive play, crowding the net during a PK to not allow wide open chances, defensemen always ready to retreat to prevent odd-man rushes.

Cappy's system appeared to be screaming about battle levels.

Weight's system appeared to be letting Tavares stay on the ice as long as he wanted, and defense you guys just do whatever it is defenseman do I don't know, I was a center in the NHL.

Snow wanted comfortable mediocrity. Don't trade any our core. Don't trade any of our prospects. Hire your friends, despite how much experience they have (I again point to Fred Braithwaite who was named our goalie coach last year despite having never held that role for another NHL, AHL, CHL, NCAA, USHL, or professional European franchise but he was buddies with Weight in St. Louis) and let Cappy sleep in your basement if he wants.

It was an absolute circus and deserves criticism from Islander fans who had to deal with it, as well as outside fans who only took a rudimentary glance yet still understand what a bad job Snow did.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

The team is doing this well because of Lou, Mitch, and Barry. What an amazing delight the start of this season is. Will it last?

 

[PK Cronin]

Doug was snows assistant GM and and a bench coach for years working under snow. Snow was forced to make a change. He picks Doug weight, knowing what system he will use. He could of hired dozens of other candidates with proven systems. He wanted Doug's system. Or do we think snow never asked him what system he was going to use. it's like saying the Mets new GM can do whatever he wants...in reality he needed to tell the owners what they wanted to hear to get hired. The owners were going to pick the guy that will do to the team, what they were also thinking they should do. I'm sure al arbour was not making decisions on ice time and game plans on his own. You feel very strongly on this topic as if it is insulting to you at the thought of A GM telling the coach what to do.

I feel strongly about it because you've posted about this nonsense before and it's so outlandish it's comical.

Of course a GM and coach are going to see eye to eye more often than not, but that's not what you've said. You're saying that the coach is running the system the GM tells them to. That's just not true. The GM hires a coach because they like the system the coach runs, not the other way around. The GM isn't tweaking the x's and o'x on a whiteboard for the coach. They implement a plan, a general plan, like playing solid defense or bringing in certain types of players. A GM is not micromanaging a coach like Trotz.

Snow couldn't have hired dozens of other candidates, quality ones anyway, because nobody wants to work under Snow. If it were true that coaches just implement what the GM wants, then why even change coaches at all? Just tell the coach to run a different system.

 

[Tres Peleches]

For Greiss in particular, I wonder how much his own coach factors into his success as well. The year after he fires him he sucks, hires him back and hes great again

 

[majormet]

What is crazy and a complete revelation of how bad the coaching was last year that Greiss is #3 in the league in GAG and Save Pct and yet his tandem partner Halak is #1 in both categories

 

[aronjudge11]

I think Halak was the most underated goalie around here in 20 years. He was way better than dipietro. It wasn't even close.

 

[scott99]

This might be the worst goalie tandem in the league. This Korn guy better have some magic.

I figured it was time to revisit this magical post and magical thread. It's interesting to see some of the people's predictions, doubts, fears, and some people who were pretty close to nailing it right on the head.

Me personally, I always though the Korn effect, and Trotz with his great defensive system, would help the Isles cut their overall goals against by 0.50, and if they did, they MIGHT make the playoffs.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Me personally, I always though the Korn effect, and Trotz with his great defensive system, would help the Isles cut their overall goals against by 0.50, and if they did, they MIGHT make the playoffs.

I have no problem admitting that the new coaches have had a profound effect not only on the goaltenders but the overall defensive prowess of the team itself. I think its gone a long way towards covering the talent deficiencies of the team. In fact, in the dialog in this thread, I allowed for that possibility. My only point was that the coaches have been dealt a less than stellar hand and they would have to work some magic to make that work. So far, they have.

 

[scott99]

I have no problem admitting that the new coaches have had a profound effect not only on the goaltenders but the overall defensive prowess of the team itself. I think its gone a long way towards covering the talent deficiencies of the team. In fact, in the dialog in this thread, I allowed for that possibility. My only point was that the coaches have been dealt a less than stellar hand and they would have to work some magic to make that work. So far, they have.

By the way, I wasn't targeting you personally, I just thought I'd show both sides of the debate, both from the negative point of view, and positive posts. I could've sworn I had posted earlier in the debate, stating what I stated above, but it wasn't in this thread I guess.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

No worries. I didn't take it personally at all. Just wanted to clarify. On an absolute scale, the Isles goaltending situation is less than ideal, to say the least. I've said it elsewhere, but the team has competently taken on Trotz's playing philosophy way quicker than I thought they would. I figured there'd be a lot more personnel pruning necessary. I was wrong on that.

 

[scott99]

No worries. I didn't take it personally at all. Just wanted to clarify. On an absolute scale, the Isles goaltending situation is less than ideal, to say the least. I've said it elsewhere, but the team has competently taken on Trotz's playing philosophy way quicker than I thought they would. I figured there'd be a lot more personnel pruning necessary. I was wrong on that.

It definitely hasn't been perfect. But on a whole, I think the changes to an actual structured system, and some great goalie coaching has made a good difference. Greiss & Lehner will never be confused for Patrick Roy, or even the great current top 10 NHL goalies, but I'll liken their play to a good systems QB in football. Maybe not the most talented, but within a structured system, they play well.

 

[Legionnaire11]

I haven't seen more than a few periods of Isles hockey this year. Where would you put these guys in league rankings? Are they both in the 20-30 range? Is one clearly ahead of the other? Does the team play better in front of one or the other? Would you want to re-sign one or both?

 

[Glory Days]

I haven't seen more than a few periods of Isles hockey this year. Where would you put these guys in league rankings? Are they both in the 20-30 range? Is one clearly ahead of the other? Does the team play better in front of one or the other? Would you want to re-sign one or both?

Neither is consistent and neither seem capable of playing for an extended time. Both are capable backups but I don’t see either as the long term #1. I am not expecting to see either on the team in 2 years. By then hopefully Isles will have Sorokin

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Neither is consistent and neither seem capable of playing for an extended time. Both are capable backups but I don’t see either as the long term #1. I am not expecting to see either on the team in 2 years. By then hopefully Isles will have Sorokin

Trotz has been particularly adept at switching starters when one looks like one may falter. IMO, this further demonstrates that it's tactical decision making coming from the coaches playing a large part in propping the goaltending up rather than the goalies being exceptionally talented in their own right.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Neither is consistent and neither seem capable of playing for an extended time. Both are capable backups but I don’t see either as the long term #1. I am not expecting to see either on the team in 2 years. By then hopefully Isles will have Sorokin

I still think Lehner can be a #1. I'm not saying he is now, in fact, he's not close, but the way he moves in and around net impresses me. Very little wasted motion as opposed to Greiss who uses about twice as much movement and energy to achieve the same result. I expect he will get more starts going forward and then we'll see. Right now the sample size is still way too small. We know this, he's getting the best possible coaching and support so whatever he's got to give, we'll probably get it.

 

[pursuit81]

What is crazy and a complete revelation of how bad the coaching was last year that Greiss is #3 in the league in GAG and Save Pct and yet his tandem partner Halak is #1 in both categories

Now it's nearly two months later and Greiss is still at a .920 but more impressively, he is #3 in Goals Saved (above replacement) at 10.06 behind only Halak and Rinne. That's a damn good number but it really, as so many have noted, speaks to the system that is being played in front of him IMO.

 

[PK Cronin]

It definitely hasn't been perfect. But on a whole, I think the changes to an actual structured system, and some great goalie coaching has made a good difference. Greiss & Lehner will never be confused for Patrick Roy, or even the great current top 10 NHL goalies, but I'll liken their play to a good systems QB in football. Maybe not the most talented, but within a structured system, they play well.

Lehner is the more talented of the two and I trust him a lot more on a night to night basis when it comes to not letting in soft goals or giving up rebounds, but he does still give some questionable goals up. He also can't seem to stay healthy. Greiss is more dependable from a health standpoint and he can steal games with his athleticism. That same athleticism leads to goals against that shouldn't go in, so it's some good and bad.

I wouldn't mind either as a backup, but neither should be a starter at this point.

 

[Islanders4Cups]

There is nothing yet that leads me to trust Lehner yet. He has been a disappointment thus far but I will give him so more time.
Greiss is playing like an all-star at times but he won’t carry this team by himself. There aren’t many goalies who will.

 

[PK Cronin]

There is nothing yet that leads me to trust Lehner yet. He has been a disappointment thus far but I will give him so more time.
Greiss is playing like an all-star at times but he won’t carry this team by himself. There aren’t many goalies who will.

A .920 SV% and a .917 SV%, a 2.53 GAA and a 2.54 GAA...they've been nearly identical all season.

 

[Brunomics]

Lehner to me looks like a guy that can play 55 games this year. The thing is with his style you will walk away unimpressed. He won't steal games and he won't lose many for you. Just a boring dependable goalie

 

[PK Cronin]

A .920 SV% and a .917 SV%, a 2.53 GAA and a 2.54 GAA...they've been nearly identical all season.

Lehner has now increased his save percentage to .919 and has a GAA of 2.44.

 

[Islanders4Cups]

Lehner was 0-for-November and was 2-5-2 in his last 9 games.
He has turned it around a bit at weak Arizona and Dallas when Greiss held his own at Colorado and was not to blame against a surging Vegas.

Not going to trust either guy as a #1 until I see a bit more.
Greiss and Lehner need to make the most of splitting their time.
If one of them takes over, great, but I like Greiss more right now.
He just wins more than loses.