Prospect Info: Prospect and Marlies Thread: 2017 - 2018 (continued) Part II

[AppsSyl]

Marlies just got shafted on a goal, and Liljegren loses out on a point, because of a reversed goal (due to the theatrics of the Providence goaltender) when there is no review. Goalie was out of the blue paint and Providence d-man initiated contact. Total BS call to reverse it when it was initially called a goal and no conclusive evidence to reverse.

 

[Menzinger]

The point is that even if you produce one, they’re still going to just sign wherever there is room for them in the AHL. And likewise, Leafs will just sign the best players available who fill the role with as big a contract as they can like they did with Holl and Froese. There’s no value in producing them in the ECHL v.s. Signing them because they’re cheap, capless and abundant at that level.

If the ECHL guy you develop looks promising you just move out a depth AHL guy to open up a spot. I don’t really see the problem here.

By using the ECHL team, the Leafs have 100% control of these young guys development, they can ensure the coach uses the same systems as the Marlies and Leafs. That’s a better situation than just waiting to sign random good ECHLers.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

If the ECHL guy you develop looks promising you just move out a depth AHL guy to open up a spot. I don’t really see the problem here.

By using the ECHL team, the Leafs have 100% control of these young guys development, they can ensure the coach uses the same systems as the Marlies and Leafs. That’s a better situation than just waiting to sign random good ECHLers.

I already conceded there may be some value in having team culture and system stay the same. But at the end of the day you aren’t gaining much by overpaying for a squad of ECHLers. And no I imagine it’s not substantially better than investing that money in scout travel instead to identify those players who should be in the AHL now among those 30 other teams and sign them.

 

[AppsSyl]

Here is the gif of the called back Marlies goal.

 

[Menzinger]

I already conceded there may be some value in having team culture and system stay the same. But at the end of the day you aren’t gaining much by overpaying for a squad of ECHLers. And no I imagine it’s not substantially better than investing that money in scout travel instead to identify those players who should be in the AHL now among those 30 other teams and sign them.

Again, given how wealthy MLSE is, it’s not an either or: they can have the most extensive and expensive scouting department and still do this.

I just don’t see any possible downside to them investing into the ECHL.

 

[AppsSyl]

Liljegren with an assist on the Marchment goal, but the AHL website hasn't given either Rosen or him credit for the assists. Liljegren sent the puck out to the point from the corner to Rosen and then Rosen to Marchment for the goal.

 

[AppsSyl]

Andreas Johnsson with his 25th goal! Nice goal too.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Again, given how wealthy MLSE is, it’s not an either or: they can have the most extensive and expensive scouting department and still do this.

I just don’t see any possible downside to them investing into the ECHL.

Pissing away money for no tangible benefit is a down side. I can see how it is not one for you though. But I don’t think it will really have any noticable benefit aside from assuming that spending more must mean better.

 

[Menzinger]

Pissing away money for no tangible benefit is a down side. I can see how it is not one for you though. But I don’t think it will really have any noticable benefit aside from assuming that spending more must mean better.

It’s a potential avenue for Leafs to get an advantage on other teams in terms of player development.

Worth the risk/investment if it pays off. Fair enough if youre pessimistic on it, but experimentation with no downside is fine by me

 

[Menzinger]

Andreas Johnsson with his 25th goal! Nice goal too.

He’s beyond NHL ready.

 

[AppsSyl]

The ended up fixing the boxscore and attributed Rosen and Liljegren and with assists on the Marchment goal.

 

[Jeypic]

I don't think you're giving either Leivo or Bracco credit for their upside. Bracco was ranked as a 1st rounder in lots of places even considering his size & defensive concerns because of how high his perceived ceiling is - he's a risky prospect who will make it on his offense if he does (which brings us back to the original point, he doesn't need to be a PK specialist type defensive player to make the NHL) and his offense could carry him to allstar games in the best case scenario, big big ceiling

Leivo I'll also disagree on - he's looking like a possession machine that will help whether his offense is going or not. I have a hard time seeing him being less than a 20/20 player with good linemates and offensive usage, and don't think that JVR type offensive numbers are out of the question - his offensive rates per 60 are in that range, just gets less TOI and worse QoT than the JVR echelon

I'd reserve judgement on both until they have a chance to shot what they are

I like them both. I just don’t see them surpassing guys like marner nylander marleau or jvr on the depth charts. Now if those guys leave... but right now they’d have to play the penalty kill.

I don’t know how you can disagree when the usage of leivo over the past three years confirms what I’m saying.

 

[4thline]

Finally got a chance to see the Marlies live this season, thoughts:

Timothy is raw. Clearly belongs and has flashes of absolute brilliance, is inconsistent shift to shift and clearly not NHL ready. Lots of room to grow in the AHL.

The rest of the D is not fair to the league. Borgman/Holl/Marincin= AHL All-star , NHL 3rd pair quality AAAA guys.

Come playoffs don't be surprised if we need a long term call up and Greening is the guy tapped on the shoulder. He's an NHL player.

Johnsson is a stud.

Marchment/Brooks/Bracco are going to shred the AHL next year. Brooks looks super steady, don't write him off.

T.Moore is an NHL player though 190 feet of ice. Good in dzone, great in transition, nice hands/ puck movement, absolute puck hound buuut no finish. His point totals don't reflect his overall ability. Could definitely see him getting time next year.

 

[AppsSyl]

Finally got a chance to see the Marlies live this season, thoughts:

Timothy is raw. Clearly belongs and has flashes of absolute brilliance, is inconsistent shift to shift and clearly not NHL ready. Lots of room to grow in the AHL.

The rest of the D is not fair to the league. Borgman/Holl/Marincin= AHL All-star , NHL 3rd pair quality AAAA guys.

Come playoffs don't be surprised if we need a long term call up and Greening is the guy tapped on the shoulder. He's an NHL player.

Johnsson is a stud.

Marchment/Brooks/Bracco are going to shred the AHL next year. Brooks looks super steady, don't write him off.

T.Moore is an NHL player though 190 feet of ice. Good in dzone, great in transition, nice hands/ puck movement, absolute puck hound buuut no finish. His point totals don't reflect his overall ability. Could definitely see him getting time next year.

Thanks for the thoughts on the game. I watched it on TV. It was an entertaining game and would have been a nice one to see live.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I like them both. I just don’t see them surpassing guys like marner nylander marleau or jvr on the depth charts. Now if those guys leave... but right now they’d have to play the penalty kill.

I don’t know how you can disagree when the usage of leivo over the past three years confirms what I’m saying.

I don't think they'll need to pass the Nylander/Marner echelon, but could be good supplements to it. JVR's probably a cap casualty this year, if so he's not competing for a spot. Marleau hasn't impressed me at all, he's fine but not an insurmountable obstacle, and by the time that Bracco gets a real look Marleau will be gone anyway, so a couple of the guys that you see as obstacles really aren't due to contract status or age.

Leivo plays both sides too, so he'd have to be better than Brown, Hyman, Marleau or Komarov. He is better than Hyman and Komarov, the other two are very open to debate, and that debate couldn't be conclusive until he actually got some playing time there

Leivo is at 70% defensive zone starts this year, and over 50% last year. His quality of linemates this year is among the worst on the team. Not sure if you mean that confirms that he's an offense-only player, or that he can't move up the lineup. He's a very good defensive player 5v5 because he's good at possessing the puck so he doesn't have to play defense, and he can't control his usage - he's earned better, the rest isn't in his hands

Finally got a chance to see the Marlies live this season, thoughts:

Timothy is raw. Clearly belongs and has flashes of absolute brilliance, is inconsistent shift to shift and clearly not NHL ready. Lots of room to grow in the AHL.

that might not be the worst thing to stagger RFA paydays. We might need to bridge a gap but if we shop well in free agency or the trade market I think we'll get by with a less than ideal top pair and a better than average 3rd pair (provided Babcock stops giving Polak contract/icetime)

Honestly, I'd take a good chance at a top pairing dman than a really good chance at another middle pairing dman with Liljegren, so that sounds like good news to me

 

[LeafChief]

Finally got a chance to see the Marlies live this season, thoughts:

Timothy is raw. Clearly belongs and has flashes of absolute brilliance, is inconsistent shift to shift and clearly not NHL ready. Lots of room to grow in the AHL.

The rest of the D is not fair to the league. Borgman/Holl/Marincin= AHL All-star , NHL 3rd pair quality AAAA guys.

Come playoffs don't be surprised if we need a long term call up and Greening is the guy tapped on the shoulder. He's an NHL player.

Johnsson is a stud.

Marchment/Brooks/Bracco are going to shred the AHL next year. Brooks looks super steady, don't write him off.

T.Moore is an NHL player though 190 feet of ice. Good in dzone, great in transition, nice hands/ puck movement, absolute puck hound buuut no finish. His point totals don't reflect his overall ability. Could definitely see him getting time next year.

Thanks for posting this.

I share the same feeling with regards to Bracco, Marchment and Brooks.

I love the way Keefe and the Marlies staff are handling these players by really easing them in and forcing them to learn the defensive side of the game.

Early on in the season, they would leave these players at home on road trips and simply have them work. In the long run, this is so incredibly smart.

Can't wait for Grundstrom to get back over here for the playoffs.

 

[93LEAFS]

Woll has a big shutout yesterday in the first day of the Hockey-East tournament, stopping 37 shots to lead BC to a 1-0 win over Merrimack. Played against today and stopped 30 of 33 shots to lead them to an OT victory to knock Merrimack out. Hope he can end the year strong, after a slow start and not a great WJC.

 

[MyBudJT]

Woll has a big shutout yesterday in the first day of the Hockey-East tournament, stopping 37 shots to lead BC to a 1-0 win over Merrimack. Played against today and stopped 30 of 33 shots to lead them to an OT victory to knock Merrimack out. Hope he can end the year strong, after a slow start and not a great WJC.

Woll has a respectable .915 SV%... he must have been pretty good lately to make up for his slow start...

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Can't wait to see Johnsson next year on Kadri's LW with either Marner or Kapanen on the right.

That allows us to bump Marleau up to the second line with Tavares.

 

[LeafChief]

Can't wait to see Johnsson next year on Kadri's LW with either Marner or Kapanen on the right.

That allows us to bump Marleau up to the second line with Tavares.

Johnsson and Grundstrom may both make serious cases to be on the team next year. Komarov and JVR replacements?

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Johnsson and Grundstrom may both make serious cases to be on the team next year. Komarov and JVR replacements?

Looks like it. I think they'll probably let Grundstrom cook a bit in the AHL though to get used to the smaller ice.

 

[MyBudJT]

Seems like there is more Grundstrom love than Korshkov... I think Korshkov will make the Leafs first...

 

[saltming]

Seems like there is more Grundstrom love than Korshkov... I think Korshkov will make the Leafs first...

I love me some Korshkov but Grundstrom has proven more on small ice so until Korshkov does that Grundstrom deserves the accolades he gets.
That said on an upside bases I think Korshkov has the higher ceiling

 

[Prominence]

Korshkov has not exactly lit it up in the khl..

 

[stickty111]

Marlies are the first team in the AHL to clinch a playoff spot.