Prospect Info: Prospect and Marlies Thread: 2017 - 2018 (continued) Part II

[Randy Randerson]

Realistic best case scenario is a Arvidsson-type player. 30-30ish offense with good defensive play. He seems to have steadily improved his speed each year since he was drafted, hes been flying out there.

That would make him an average first line player which would be phenomenal.

I don't see the Arvidsson style east-west movement with the one-hand dangles, but I could see him getting more odd man rushes and breakaways because of his wheels

agree on the upside, maybe even a little better if he's playing with stars

 

[Al14]

not to those who wins it

Well, of course, however, in the grand scheme of an NHL club winning a Stanley Cup, winning an ECHL championship does not count as much as winning the Calder Cup! JMHO.

I hope the Marlies Calder Cup championship carries over directly to Stanley Cup success for our Leafs.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Well, of course, however, in the grand scheme of an NHL club winning a Stanley Cup, winning an ECHL championship does not count as much as winning the Calder Cup! JMHO.

I hope the Marlies Calder Cup championship carries over directly to Stanley Cup success for our Leafs.

why not?
they are the players we drafted
they won something.
it counts.

 

[Al14]

why not?
they are the players we drafted
they won something.
it counts.

ECHL players rarely, if ever, have an impact on their NHL parent clubs. Again JMHO.

 

[Daisy Jane]

ECHL players rarely, if ever, have an impact on their NHL parent clubs. Again JMHO.

in the grand scheme of development to win a cup.
if a player makes the leafs, was on the growlers, and they win. then it counts. you can't just diminish experience like that, opinion or otherwise.

like if players win world championships, or club championships before they get drafted it matters.
if they play in the ECHL (and win) it helps in their development.
if they play in the AHL and win it helps in their development.
if they play for the Leafs, and the Leafs win. you can't lop off the ECHL or other bits and go well this part didn't count but this one does. it all counts. it all matters.

 

[Rielly4]

Johnsson-Nylander-Kapanen will be a line that causes trouble for other teams next season.

 

[Al14]

in the grand scheme of development to win a cup.
if a player makes the leafs, was on the growlers, and they win. then it counts. you can't just diminish experience like that, opinion or otherwise.

like if players win world championships, or club championships before they get drafted it matters.
if they play in the ECHL (and win) it helps in their development.
if they play in the AHL and win it helps in their development.
if they play for the Leafs, and the Leafs win. you can't lop off the ECHL or other bits and go well this part didn't count but this one does. it all counts. it all matters.

I agree to disagree! Thanks.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I agree to disagree! Thanks.

so are you honestly saying - just so we are clear, it doesn't matter what championship people win unless it's a calder and it doesn't impact their development and it won't help the leafs win a cup? like. that's what it seems like you are saying, and we can agree to disagree, but i want to know if that's what you're specifically saying.

 

[Albert Iafrate]

Well, of course, however, in the grand scheme of an NHL club winning a Stanley Cup, winning an ECHL championship does not count as much as winning the Calder Cup! JMHO.

I hope the Marlies Calder Cup championship carries over directly to Stanley Cup success for our Leafs.

By your logic, winning the Calder means nothing as well. They just beat a team where the top 4 playoff scorers were in their late 20's and into their 30s. These guys are not NHL level talent, so beating them doesn't prove anything.

I'm not saying I agree with your point. I think winning any championship is huge for a prospect's development. I just don't understand how you think a Calder is so much more valuable than the ECHL championship?

 

[Mess]

Johnsson-Nylander-Kapanen will be a line that causes trouble for other teams next season.

Barring any significant UFA signings this summer that looks like Plan A for 3rd line.

 

[Al14]

so are you honestly saying - just so we are clear, it doesn't matter what championship people win unless it's a calder and it doesn't impact their development and it won't help the leafs win a cup? like. that's what it seems like you are saying, and we can agree to disagree, but i want to know if that's what you're specifically saying.

Yes, for individuals to win a championship, of any kind, is important. Sure, when an ECHL team wins the Kelly Cup, it is a nice accomplishment for the NHL parent team.

And yes, some ECHL players do make to the NHL. However, not many have had a direct impact on the success of their NHL clubs.

If a prospect fails to make the AHL, he most likely ends up in the ECHL. That does not bode well for that player to make the NHL, and, have a long term impact at the NHL level.

An AHL team that wins a championship should directly impact the success of their NHL club. Not always does it, however, it should have some impact for the NHL club, as the AHL club is a direct feeder/development team.

All I'm saying is that AHL success is much, much better for the parent NHL team than an ECHL championship.

 

[Al14]

By your logic, winning the Calder means nothing as well. They just beat a team where the top 4 playoff scorers were in their late 20's and into their 30s. These guys are not NHL level talent, so beating them doesn't prove anything.

I'm not saying I agree with your point. I think winning any championship is huge for a prospect's development. I just don't understand how you think a Calder is so much more valuable than the ECHL championship?

Winning the Calder is far, far more important to winning an ECHL championship. The AHL team is a direct development/feeder team to their parent NHL club.

Kudos to the Texas Stars for making the Calder finals and nearly upsetting the Marlies to boot. They clearly overachieved in the Calder playoffs.

 

[Boutette]

I don't see the Arvidsson style east-west movement with the one-hand dangles, but I could see him getting more odd man rushes and breakaways because of his wheels

agree on the upside, maybe even a little better if he's playing with stars

And this will be x3 if he's put on a line with, say Kapanen and a speedy center.

 

[Boutette]

Barring any significant UFA signings this summer that looks like Plan A for 3rd line.

Yep. A recipe for a 3rd line similar to what the Grabner line on the NY Rangers had over the past 2 years before it was dismantled. And since a Jonsson-Nylander-Kapanen line would be most effective off the rush, imagine what a bunch of the JVR-Bozak-Brown offensive zone starts shifted to Matthews or Kadri's lines would produce...

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

why not?
they are the players we drafted
they won something.
it counts.

I could not find when the AHL became a development league, i.e. a league where "x" players per game (excluding goaltenders) had to have less than "y" number of games played as pros.

But since 2000, no NHL team has won a Stanley Cup in the 5 years following a Calder Cup win by their AHL affiliate.

 

[BM14]

I could not find when the AHL became a development league, i.e. a league where "x" players per game (excluding goaltenders) had to have less than "y" number of games played as pros.

But since 2000, no NHL team has won a Stanley Cup in the 5 years following a Calder Cup win by their AHL affiliate.

And the Cubs hadn't won a WS since 1908.
Just because it's a statistic.....it doesn't make it absolute.

 

[Liminality]

What's the problem here? A Calder cup led by young and promising players is a good sign no matter how you try to dissect it.