Speculation: Potential Offseason Acquisitions

[ILoveStephanieBrown]

We wouldn't do that either. We are going to wait for 2-5 years and hope we actually develop a productive dman.

Homer, is that you?

 

[BernieParent]

It is completely obvious that this franchise will not do a full rebuild. The closest they came to this was trading Forsberg in 2007. So the idea of trading multiple veterans and especially Giroux is silly in its impossibility. That being said, it is dangerous to maintain the mindset that this team needs to win a Cup while Giroux is here. Chances are, the franchise will probably "waste" his peak years while they slowly remedy the years of ignoring the talent pipeline. Plus, as was stated, defensemen tend to peak later than forwards, so trends are working against the Flyers becoming SC candidates through the D prospects on whom we are focusing while Giroux is still at the top of his game.

The odds are that Hextall will follow the middle ground of letting the youngsters develop without knee-jerk trades for middling past-their-prime vets who might contribute to a couple of post-season wins, while still looking to make the team as competitive as possible each year. That's not entirely a bad thing, but he, we and the rest of the Flyers FO have to come to terms that this squad will probably get worse before they get better while the old guard gives way to the rookies.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It is completely obvious that this franchise will not do a full rebuild. The closest they came to this was trading Forsberg in 2007. So the idea of trading multiple veterans and especially Giroux is silly in its impossibility. That being said, it is dangerous to maintain the mindset that this team needs to win a Cup while Giroux is here. Chances are, the franchise will probably "waste" his peak years while they slowly remedy the years of ignoring the talent pipeline. Plus, as was stated, defensemen tend to peak later than forwards, so trends are working against the Flyers becoming SC candidates through the D prospects on whom we are focusing while Giroux is still at the top of his game.

The odds are that Hextall will follow the middle ground of letting the youngsters develop without knee-jerk trades for middling past-their-prime vets who might contribute to a couple of post-season wins, while still looking to make the team as competitive as possible each year. That's not entirely a bad thing, but he, we and the rest of the Flyers FO have to come to terms that this squad will probably get worse before they get better while the old guard gives way to the rookies.

I think you're right. I've long since come to grips with the very likely possibility that if Giroux wins a Cup here, it's unlikely he'll be in a primary role for it. It will be with some other superstar or two at the steering wheel.

In other words, it's likely not happening soon.

 

[Curufinwe]

Giroux is 26 and is just starting an eight year deal. If his prime doesn't include at least the next five years then they shouldn't have signed him for that long.

 

[Striiker]

I don't think they're as far away as most of you seem to. When they're on a roll they're a very very good team, as we saw for a long stretch this year. If the offense keeps maturing, get quicker defensively by simply ditching slow stupid players like Grossmann and replacing him with faster players who can pass, and Mason is solid then they're a pretty dangerous team. The biggest issue last season was getting stuck in the D zone because they couldn't move the puck quickly, fix that and a it'll positively impact other aspects of the game. I'm not calling them a favorite win a cup in the next 3 years but I don't think it's a massive reach.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Giroux is 26 and is just starting an eight year deal. If his prime doesn't include at least the next five years then they shouldn't have signed him for that long.

I'm assuming it will take 5-7 years for the D to come into form. I don't expect Giroux to be the workhorse then that he is now. I think Couturier or some other Forward may become more prominent in that time...we will see.

 

[YEM]

I don't think they're as far away as most of you seem to.

with this current crop on D they're much farther away than the majority of the opinions here.

our best pair would be the bottom pairing on the Rangers
you can say the same when looking at LA and Chicago also

 

[Flyotes]

Hard to put a timeline on things. Circumstances change and can change quickly -- or obnoxiously stay the same.

It's important not to waste G's prime.

 

[Striiker]

with this current crop on D they're much farther away than the majority of the opinions here.

our best pair would be the bottom pairing on the Rangers
you can say the same when looking at LA and Chicago also

Nope, the D isn't as bad as you think. Swap a few pieces and it improves immediately too.

 

[Curufinwe]

Barring major injury his prime should last as long as a guy like Henrik Sedin who peaked as a 29 year old and was still around a PPG until this season when he was 33.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Hard to put a timeline on things. Circumstances change and can change quickly -- or obnoxiously stay the same.

Pretty much, you have to take a year to year approach now a days with the NHL because things can dramatically change for better or worse.

I would say it's pretty irresponsible to look two years away let alone four or five years like some on here do.

 

[GKJ]

Giroux is 26 and is just starting an eight year deal. If his prime doesn't include at least the next five years then they shouldn't have signed him for that long.

They probably shouldn't have, but they also couldn't really afford not to. He'll still likely be a point-per-game player for the next 5 years. But unless he gets put with a superstar-type scorer, he's not going to break 100 points.

 

[YEM]

Nope, the D isn't as bad as you think. Swap a few pieces and it improves immediately too.

well duh
until and unless that happens, the D is mediocre at best

 

[Tripod]

Don't be all upset just because some people want to be patient instead of impatient and overpay for someone who isn't a legit #1. Inaction is better than a stupid action.

Being patient is fine, if we were built right. But we are not. All of our good young F core are going to have their best years while we wait for our kids on D to become NHL level dmen. Then it will be another few years after that until they are very good dmen. At that point, Giroux has had his peak and is declining, Voracek and Coburn might be gone as a UFA's and Simmonds is slowing down like Hartnell has.

Our best forwards in Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Couts and Schenn, all just had their best or 2nd best years of their young careers this year. Sort of feels wasted to me. So let's assume that they all do so again the next 2 years. It will all be wasted.

Simple question, if you all want to wait and build thru this young group of kids on D, then shouldn't the plan be to trade ALL of the players over 23 for GREAT returns now and then have the kids on D, on F and in goal all coming up a peaking together?

And again, if we "stand pat" and do nothing, and a Kimmo retires, please show me our top pairing D that we look forward to having next year.

 

[StevensCakeBakerBacker]

It is completely obvious that this franchise will not do a full rebuild. The closest they came to this was trading Forsberg in 2007. So the idea of trading multiple veterans and especially Giroux is silly in its impossibility. That being said, it is dangerous to maintain the mindset that this team needs to win a Cup while Giroux is here. Chances are, the franchise will probably "waste" his peak years while they slowly remedy the years of ignoring the talent pipeline. Plus, as was stated, defensemen tend to peak later than forwards, so trends are working against the Flyers becoming SC candidates through the D prospects on whom we are focusing while Giroux is still at the top of his game.

The odds are that Hextall will follow the middle ground of letting the youngsters develop without knee-jerk trades for middling past-their-prime vets who might contribute to a couple of post-season wins, while still looking to make the team as competitive as possible each year. That's not entirely a bad thing, but he, we and the rest of the Flyers FO have to come to terms that this squad will probably get worse before they get better while the old guard gives way to the rookies.

G will be the Brian Westbrook of the Flyers

 

[kyuss]

Giroux is still really young. In three years he'll still be on the right side of the 30 year old cliff so many of us worry about. When he falls off that cliff he'll likely still be productive due to his PP wizardry.

I'm also not worried because Dmen don't take nearly as long to develop these days. Here's a list to make you optimistic the wait won't be long:

Shattenkirk-25

Pietrangelo-24

OEL-22

Karlsson-23(norris@21)

P.K.-25(norris@24)

Trouba-20

Josi-23

Weber-28(norris finalist for years, first norris vote@21?)

 

[Striiker]

Being patient is fine, if we were built right. But we are not. All of our good young F core are going to have their best years while we wait for our kids on D to become NHL level dmen. Then it will be another few years after that until they are very good dmen. At that point, Giroux has had his peak and is declining, Voracek and Coburn might be gone as a UFA's and Simmonds is slowing down like Hartnell has.

Our best forwards in Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Couts and Schenn, all just had their best or 2nd best years of their young careers this year. Sort of feels wasted to me. So let's assume that they all do so again the next 2 years. It will all be wasted.

Simple question, if you all want to wait and build thru this young group of kids on D, then shouldn't the plan be to trade ALL of the players over 23 for GREAT returns now and then have the kids on D, on F and in goal all coming up a peaking together?

And again, if we "stand pat" and do nothing, and a Kimmo retires, please show me our top pairing D that we look forward to having next year.

I don't think we have to wait until those prospects have reached their potential to compete. I think if in a year or two they can each make the team that their individual skill sets will really help the team, even if they're not fully developed yet. I 100% believe that having amazing defense and a #1D is unnecessary to win the cup, obviously it helps but it's not impossible to win without it.

Lets say, and hope, that next season all/most of the Flyers important forwards either stay the same (Giroux, Simmonds, Voracek, Read), or improve (Couturier, Schenn, and even Raffl), and Laughton can come in and make the 4th line semi decent. I don't think that's too far fetched, I doubt think any of them will do significantly worse than last season and Couts and Schenn improving seems pretty likely, so it's possible the forwards will be even better than last year.

Then hopefully Mason is able to play on par with how he did this past year, which is also pretty likely since I don't see any real reason why he would do worse, especially if the defense improves.

Defensively, simply getting rid of Grossmann and replacing him with someone who can skate and pass (Alt or Hagg) immediately makes the defense better because the main issue the D had all year was just quickly getting the puck out of the zone, so get rid of the guy who was the worst at that and the D improves overall. Other than that I'd have to wait and see what happens with Timonen because I'm not sure what he's planning to do, although if I had to guess I'd say he's going to retire. In that case maybe Streit and AMac both move up a pair and Gostisbehere is paired with Schenn on the 3rd, which I would be perfectly fine with. I have no clue how that would play out because Timonen has big shoes to fill but he had to leave eventually so why not get the young guys in as soon as possible to give them experience and help them improve next season. They're all young, but they're all very smart and mature players so I don't think it would be as hard for them to step in as some think. Hagg and Alt have both played against men before and did very well. Gostisbehere is smart and quick enough to make up for his physical shortcomings and he could probably help replace some of Timonens offense.

Does this set us up for a cup run next season? Probably not. But it helps show us what the team looks like with these young guys plugged in and it shows us what they can do by watching them play in the NHL. Then after next season see where we're at and evaluate if they look like they'll take too long to make an impact and if we're better off making the trades like you want.

 

[Striiker]

Giroux is still really young. In three years he'll still be on the right side of the 30 year old cliff so many of us worry about. When he falls off that cliff he'll likely still be productive due to his PP wizardry.

I'm also not worried because Dmen don't take nearly as long to develop these days. Here's a list to make you optimistic the wait won't be long:

Shattenkirk-25

Pietrangelo-24

OEL-22

Karlsson-23(norris@21)

P.K.-25(norris@24)

Trouba-20

Josi-23

Weber-28(norris finalist for years, first norris vote@21?)

Uhh, you can't use allstars and franchise #1D to use an example for the development of defenseman... they don't all end up like that....

 

[Tedeward]

Being patient is fine, if we were built right. But we are not. All of our good young F core are going to have their best years while we wait for our kids on D to become NHL level dmen. Then it will be another few years after that until they are very good dmen. At that point, Giroux has had his peak and is declining, Voracek and Coburn might be gone as a UFA's and Simmonds is slowing down like Hartnell has.

Our best forwards in Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Couts and Schenn, all just had their best or 2nd best years of their young careers this year. Sort of feels wasted to me. So let's assume that they all do so again the next 2 years. It will all be wasted.

Simple question, if you all want to wait and build thru this young group of kids on D, then shouldn't the plan be to trade ALL of the players over 23 for GREAT returns now and then have the kids on D, on F and in goal all coming up a peaking together?

And again, if we "stand pat" and do nothing, and a Kimmo retires, please show me our top pairing D that we look forward to having next year.

I agree that we need to solve this problem before our F core hit their prime, but I think we have to be patient for this year at the least. Right now the dman market is through the ****in roof. I think we should get faster on D this offseason and then look for a #1 or potential #1 in the latter years.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Uhh, you can't use allstars and franchise #1D to use an example for the development of defenseman... they don't all end up like that....

You can't but I still see his overall point. NHL players are entering in the league younger & younger every year & making decent to good impacts since the last lockout because the player developement in the lower levels & the overall science to the fitness aspect of being a pro athlete is rapidly improving every year since then.

I'm not saying to count on it but at the same time it's ridiculous to say player x is 4-5 years away from doing anything noteworthy if he does at all when you simply don't know. It's hard to predict a player's development curve that's why you have to take it year by year & put no time stamp on it.

I really don't see the difference in waiting a year or two to see what we have unless a deal too good to pass comes to the forefront. It seems like some people on here want to be an armchair GM too much that they desparately want something to happen for the sake of happening.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Can anybody describe Weber's developmental path? At what point after he was drafted did 29 NHL franchises punch themselves in the genitals for passing on him?

 

[kyuss]

Uhh, you can't use allstars and franchise #1D to use an example for the development of defenseman... they don't all end up like that....

I can, and I did, because some of them do. There weren't this many young defenseman leading their corps in the past. My intended point was to show that our prospects can contribute sooner rather than later.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Can anybody describe Weber's developmental path? At what point after he was drafted did 29 NHL franchises punch themselves in the genitals for passing on him?

He was perceived as a raw player, on the surface he was big bruising defensive defensemen with potential growing offensive skills.

His production steadily climbed in juniors for two years after being drafted (he was about a .50 PPG in the first year & a little below a PPG in second & final year).

He made the jump to the pros the following year & split time between the AHL & NHL. The year after that he put up 40 points in his first full NHL season at age 21/22.

 

[Curufinwe]

I really don't see the difference in waiting a year or two to see what we have unless a deal too good to pass comes to the forefront. It seems like some people on here want to be an armchair GM too much that they desparately want something to happen for the sake of happening.

I think it's sensible to wait till we hear whether Kimmo is coming back and see if they can move Vinny before getting into full armchair GM mode.

 

[Beef Invictus]

He was perceived as a raw player, on the surface he was big bruising defensive defensemen with a potential growing offensive skills.

I was hoping you would describe Morin