Possible trade and roster fixes for the Wings, Part IV

[Crymson]

LeBrun says the Wings are pursuing Ehrhoff... but that's LeBrun, and he works for ESPN, and ESPN is effectively an amateur news site where the NHL is concerned. So forget that.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Think it's in this teams best interest to stand pat. Price is too steep for all the available big names and they all come with no guarantee we would even make the playoffs. The future of this team is bright no sense in breaking up this group of young players. I'd be happy making a small deal for a rental D-man like Derek Morris or Robidas for a mid round pick. Just not worth it for us to get involved in these high stakes deals given our current standing. I'll be surprised (and mad) if any of Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, Sheahan, Mantha, Jarnkrok, or Pulkkinen are moved.

Adding an Edler or Ehrhoff would do wonders for this team. Holland should do everything in his power to try and swing one of those trades WITHOUT giving up those guys you mention (though I'd be willing to part with Pulkkinen, but not Mrazek). Sadly I doubt it can happen without one of those guys going, but one can always hope. Closer to the deadline when teams run out of options and are under pressure to get a deal done maybe the price can go down.

 

[Kronwalled55]

What makes me weary about going after Ehrhoff is the idea that Buffalo is going to want Mrazek.

I think Mrazek is going to be a great starter someday if he leaves Detroit. Considering Buffalo is in the division and Petr would have a decent shot of starting there soon... It could backfire.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

LeBrun says the Wings are pursuing Ehrhoff... but that's LeBrun, and he works for ESPN, and ESPN is effectively an amateur news site where the NHL is concerned. So forget that.

He's also done work for CBC. LeBrun's legit. My question is whether he stated that they're actually pursuing him or whether he's of the belief that they'd pursue him. Big difference. For example, when Kesler being traded news broke, LeBrun speculated that Detroit would be a team interested but that's not the same as Detroit is actively interested.

 

[ricky0034]

He put up back to back 70P + seasons three years ago while playing excellent two-way hockey.

Yes, that was through 2009-2011, but he still did it while playing behind the Sedins (he sometimes played with them on the wing, though).

and since then he's been more of a 50 point player

things change,3 years ago Daniel Sedin won the Art Ross. how's that working out for him?

 

[GBFP]

This is the first trade deadline in a while where I hope Holland does nothing.

 

[KJoe88]

and since then he's been more of a 50 point player

things change,3 years ago Daniel Sedin won the Art Ross. how's that working out for him?

Sedin has had a rough year, so now he sucks? He played excellent in Sochi.

A year or two of bad hockey doesn't mean the hockey player is dead or cannot rebound. Vancouver is a mediocre team and Kes has played with average linemates. And even if he's putting 50 points up recently, he's still a great shut-down center capable of offensive contribution.

He's also had unfortunate series of injuries.

I believe a change of scenery could do him good. Whether it's here or some place else.

 

[bullocks]

He's also done work for CBC. LeBrun's legit. My question is whether he stated that they're actually pursuing him or whether he's of the belief that they'd pursue him. Big difference. For example, when Kesler being traded news broke, LeBrun speculated that Detroit would be a team interested but that's not the same as Detroit is actively interested.

LeBrun is as legit as they get. Also was with TSN before.

Buffalo might be the epicentre of TradeCentre. Might Ehrhoff be traded?

Dreger: Well there's a lot of interest in Christian Ehrhoff, as there is in Tyler Myers. In Ehrhoff you get a bit more experience. I know the Detroit Red Wings would like to beef up their blue line. There's some interest in Christian Ehrhoff but Kenny Holland is trying to hold on to what he has in his youth, so the asking price is going to have to come down.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

I love that they want a 20-25 year old center who "can fill the void left by Kesler." Why the **** would anyone trade a guy who is at least 5 years younger if he is capable of filling Kesler's shoes to any extent plus a first plus a top prospect.

That's exactly what I thought.

 

[SantosHalper]

Ehrhoff for Kindl+Amlqvist+Peterson

 

[Crymson]

Ehrhoff for Kindl+Amlqvist+Peterson

You forgot the

 

[BinCookin]

I would not trade Tatar for Kesler straight up.

I believe as many others around here that Acquiring Kesler would be a mistake.

We have a lot of young players. Beyond our (many) aging superstars (3) and stars (2) (D, Z, Alfie, Kronwall, Franzen) the team is becoming very young.

Nyquist and Tatar are Legit NHL forwards. I don't care if they are "top 6" or "top 9" or whatever we call it. We have a small skilled team. Thats how the Red Wings play, and if we had a "Top 12" that included all scoring lines, I think that would be a good thing.

The point is a lot of these players will establish themselves (or not) in the next 3-4 years. Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, Sheahan, Sproul, Oulluet. Trading these players now is BAD ASSET MANAGEMENT. IMO. Because They have potential, but their trade value could jump up to "Ryan Johansen's level" if they have 1-2 good years. And I think this WILL happen. Trading our young guys now, assumes they won't make their potential. I think they will, and they will be MUCH MORE valuable in a few years that right now. So I do NOT want them traded.

Also why are none of these players is seen as being as good as "Kesler". Well IMO, Kesler is nothing special. Vancouver had a great system and team, and Kesler's stats are a result of that system, and were inflated because of it. He is a good player yes… but why are they thinking about trading him? Because they don't think they need him to win. Does no one see the problem with this? He is 29 and you don't think you need him? Yet Vanek is 30, and everyone wants him? Interesting Paradox. Its not like Vancouver has a lot of Offensive talent. So they should be holding onto Kesler stronger than we hold onto Helm. To me it shows lack of confidence in the player. And I already was not high on Kesler myself.

Our star players are all injured this year.
We are currently rebuilding a little / retooling.
We need our young players to meet potential for us to be contenders.
I do not want Vanek/Kesler/Edler at the cost of our young players.
We can get all of these players by FA for FREE.

We likely lose all these players we trade for anyway.

Imagine our team like this: (don't get too hung up on value here, just pretend we trade kids for "established talent"

Nyquist + 1st rounder = Vanek
Tatar + Pulkinnen + 2nd rounder = Kesler
Jurco + Sheahan = Moulson
Cap dump successfully
Bert, Sammy, Tootoo

Vanek - Datsyuk - Franzen
Moulson - Zetterberg - Alfie
Weiss - Kesler - Anderson
Eaves - Helm - Miller

Is our team better??? Looks nice if they were all healthy, but … how long would this last?

What happens in 2-3 years…. We become Buffalo! (no no, worse, Edmonton)… So we would need to win a CUP this way for it to be worth it… It just seems to be not worth it

 

[Henkka]

When looking those Corsi-figures, I really think we should go after Alexander Edler. He has had very tough qualcomp in that tough Pacific division, almost double harder than Red Wings TOP4 defenceman have got at this season. His role at Canucks has been kind of Smith-like, if I compare Canucks internal defensive usage distribution to Red Wings distribution. But I think he would shine at easy East immediately. Smith has been sheltered even at easy east, when Edler has had the toughest qualcomp on his team at toughest NHL division.

Vancouver defence Usage Chart

Detroit defence Usage Chart

He can also play PK on a second pair, and then we would have a great total defensive balance, even if we let Quincey walk at next summer.

I like him as a PP quarterback, more than I like Kronwall. Nothing against Kronner, but Edler would make us better.

How does his ice-times fit in:

TOTAL/Ice-time:
---------------
Kronwall 24:15
Edler 23:23
Ericsson 21:22
DeKeyser 21:07
Quincey 20:36
Smith 18:28
Kindl 17:52
Lashoff 14:46

PP Ice-time:
--------------
Kronwall 3:28
Edler 2:53
Kindl 2:18
DeKeyser 1:21
(Almquist 1:14)
Ericsson 0:27
Quincey 0:23
Smith 0:09
(Lashoff 0:01)

So Edler would take the 1st PP point role with Alfredsson. Kronwall would go to 2nd unit with DeKeyser, Kindl or Smith (hopefully he gets his offensive role some day). That should bolster both units and Kronner would go back towards his old role. Or, you could also go with 2 defencemen on the point and put Alfie on the slot. Kronwall - Edler, DeKeyser-Kindl/Smith.

If someone like TAtar is sacrificed in Edler trade, we could have this kind of PP units:

Zeta - Dats - Mule (Nyquist at Zeta spot until Zeta is healthy)
Edler - Alfie

Jurco - Sheahan - Nyquist (Weiss at Nyquist's spot, before Zeta is healthy. When healthy, Jurco/Sheahan - Weiss - Nyquist in 2nd unit)
Kronwall - Kindl/Smith

PK Ice-time:
---------------
Kronwall 3:08
Ericsson 3:05
Quincey 2:32
(Lashoff 2:23)
Edler 2:21
Dekeyser 2:15
Smith 1:01
Kindl 0:06

I would like this PK Ice-time distribution A LOT. Kronner-Ericsson is the 1st pair, then you have three equal guys Quincey, DeKeyser and Edler to be used at 2nd pair. (I see Lashoff as a 7th guy even though he has played almost all the games because of other guys injuries... but he is fine 7th.) If one defenceman is in a box, you still have four decent guys to roll on PK. This is in my opinion a perfect defence.

What I have read those trade-discussions, Canucks-guys have told that they don't need prospect centers or defencemen. They want young forwards and wingers forwards fit best in if they keep Kesler. I really think that because we have so many great winger prospects (maybe too many, all will never fit to Red Wings anyhow) behind proven guys like Tatar that would interest the opposite organization, we should consider really hard this chance to acquire Edler and sending at least one young great winger to Vancouver. We have Pulkkinen knocking the door etc. could have realgud home-grown replacements for the lost player.

 

[19 for president]

I agree on Kesler. I don't think he is the player the Wings need at this moment. He has had health issues, plays a style where he may be exiting his prime vs entering it, is going to cost a ton, is basically a 50 pt player, and probably wouldn't be able to play center on the Wings. Kesler is the type of player you deal for when you are close to a cup, and you don't really need youth for awhile.

I just don't see the point of trading Nyquist (63 pt pace) or Tatar (41pt pace). I mean it is very likely that both of these guys will out point Kesler within a year and do so on cheaper contracts and cost the Wings nothing but money. They'll probably never win Selkes, but the Wings at this moment don't need Selke worthy centers. They've got 5 centers that range from either outstanding to above average defensively in (Helm, Z, Dats, Sheahan, and Weiss). That isn't going to change likely anytime soon. What is going to change is the ability of Dats and Z to put up high point totals, and that's what the Wings will need help with.

I would however be very game in terms of trading for a PP QB, because I don't really see one in the system. The Wings have a bunch of great two way guys like Marchenko, Backman, Oulette. They also have some great skaters/ jump up into the play guys like Jensen and Smith. They may also have that elite PP bomb in Sproul (Pulu/ Frk/etc). What they don't have on the team or in the system is the guy that can run an elite PP, a true QB. Almquist is the closest they have, but I honestly doubt he ever makes it full time with the Wings due to his size. He should be our first D callup this year and outside of the one time early in the year hasn't seen the NHL ice.

 

[gretskidoo]

If Buffalo fans are any indication of Ehrhoff's price(they're not), Edler should be Holland's target.

 

[SoupNazi]

I agree on Kesler. I don't think he is the player the Wings need at this moment. He has had health issues, plays a style where he may be exiting his prime vs entering it, is going to cost a ton, is basically a 50 pt player, and probably wouldn't be able to play center on the Wings. Kesler is the type of player you deal for when you are close to a cup, and you don't really need youth for awhile.

I just don't see the point of trading Nyquist (63 pt pace) or Tatar (41pt pace). I mean it is very likely that both of these guys will out point Kesler within a year and do so on cheaper contracts and cost the Wings nothing but money. They'll probably never win Selkes, but the Wings at this moment don't need Selke worthy centers. They've got 5 centers that range from either outstanding to above average defensively in (Helm, Z, Dats, Sheahan, and Weiss). That isn't going to change likely anytime soon. What is going to change is the ability of Dats and Z to put up high point totals, and that's what the Wings will need help with.

I would however be very game in terms of trading for a PP QB, because I don't really see one in the system. The Wings have a bunch of great two way guys like Marchenko, Backman, Oulette. They also have some great skaters/ jump up into the play guys like Jensen and Smith. They may also have that elite PP bomb in Sproul (Pulu/ Frk/etc). What they don't have on the team or in the system is the guy that can run an elite PP, a true QB. Almquist is the closest they have, but I honestly doubt he ever makes it full time with the Wings due to his size. He should be our first D callup this year and outside of the one time early in the year hasn't seen the NHL ice.

Well said. I am going to be furious if we trade for Kesler and the price paid is anywhere close to what Vancouver is reportedly asking.

 

[Frk It]

A big reason I say no to Kesler is the eyeball test with Sheahan so far this year. The guy makes the most out of the scoring chances he gets. Has a nice shot and is a good finisher.

I am totally expecting him to be a 20+ goal scorer in the NHL. And as I've said many times, almost reminds me of Franzen at times.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

the reason why we shouldnt even discuss kesler is simple... weiss

kesler is not a tatar/sheahan/nyquist and 1st rd pick better then weiss

that is the way we have to think about it

how much better then weiss is kesler(and the real weiss not this years injured version)?

kesler is for sure better but not to any extreme thats for sure

we're in desperate need for a top 3 youngish dman and that is all KH should be concerned with. Its clearly something he recognizes(jaybo, suter, yandle, edler talk of last # of years proves that)

i dont believe ehrhoff or edler will cost as much as their fanbases say

holland can not continue to strike out though if we ever want to be able to take that next step with or young guy

 

[Henkka]

Good points about Kesler. Just won't work. I believe he stays at Canucks and something could happen at next summer. More potential buyers then.

We should go after a defenceman, and Edler is my 1st candidate.

 

[crashman]

the reason why we shouldnt even discuss kesler is simple... weiss

kesler is not a tatar/sheahan/nyquist and 1st rd pick better then weiss

that is the way we have to think about it

how much better then weiss is kesler(and the real weiss not this years injured version)?

kesler is for sure better but not to any extreme thats for sure

we're in desperate need for a top 3 youngish dman and that is all KH should be concerned with. Its clearly something he recognizes(jaybo, suter, yandle, edler talk of last # of years proves that)

i dont believe ehrhoff or edler will cost as much as their fanbases say

holland can not continue to strike out though if we ever want to be able to take that next step with or young guy

I agree. There's no sense in discussing Kesler with Weiss under contract for the next 5 seasons. I think Holland would have been all over trying to get Kesler if we hadn't signed Weiss, but that ship has sailed. Even though I think he's an idiot, I always wanted Kesler in Detroit, so it's unfortunate that he didn't become available until just recently.

If we landed Edler, I'd be very happy.

 

[Winger98]

Kesler comes with some heavy costs. I'd like him, but I've never been a huge fan of his. I'm just wishing something will start happening somewhere. Feels like Christmas, this sense of anticipation. It's not even who we get,but just who moves where and for what. Hoping it's a deadline of GI Joe and video games and not of socks and underwear.

 

[The Zermanator]

When looking those Corsi-figures, I really think we should go after Alexander Edler. He has had very tough qualcomp in that tough Pacific division, almost double harder than Red Wings TOP4 defenceman have got at this season. His role at Canucks has been kind of Smith-like, if I compare Canucks internal defensive usage distribution to Red Wings distribution. But I think he would shine at easy East immediately. Smith has been sheltered even at easy east, when Edler has had the toughest qualcomp on his team at toughest NHL division.

He can also play PK on a second pair, and then we would have a great total defensive balance, even if we let Quincey walk at next summer.

I like him as a PP quarterback, more than I like Kronwall. Nothing against Kronner, but Edler would make us better.

How does his ice-times fit in:

TOTAL/Ice-time:
---------------
Kronwall 24:15
Edler 23:23
Ericsson 21:22
DeKeyser 21:07
Quincey 20:36
Smith 18:28
Kindl 17:52
Lashoff 14:46

PP Ice-time:
--------------
Kronwall 3:28
Edler 2:53
Kindl 2:18
DeKeyser 1:21
(Almquist 1:14)
Ericsson 0:27
Quincey 0:23
Smith 0:09
(Lashoff 0:01)

So Edler would take the 1st PP point role with Alfredsson. Kronwall would go to 2nd unit with DeKeyser, Kindl or Smith (hopefully he gets his offensive role some day). That should bolster both units and Kronner would go back towards his old role. Or, you could also go with 2 defencemen on the point and put Alfie on the slot. Kronwall - Edler, DeKeyser-Kindl/Smith.

If someone like TAtar is sacrificed in Edler trade, we could have this kind of PP units:

Zeta - Dats - Mule (Nyquist at Zeta spot until Zeta is healthy)
Edler - Alfie

Jurco - Sheahan - Nyquist (Weiss at Nyquist's spot, before Zeta is healthy. When healthy, Jurco/Sheahan - Weiss - Nyquist in 2nd unit)
Kronwall - Kindl/Smith

PK Ice-time:
---------------
Kronwall 3:08
Ericsson 3:05
Quincey 2:32
(Lashoff 2:23)
Edler 2:21
Dekeyser 2:15
Smith 1:01
Kindl 0:06

I would like this PK Ice-time distribution A LOT. Kronner-Ericsson is the 1st pair, then you have three equal guys Quincey, DeKeyser and Edler to be used at 2nd pair. (I see Lashoff as a 7th guy even though he has played almost all the games because of other guys injuries... but he is fine 7th.) If one defenceman is in a box, you still have four decent guys to roll on PK. This is in my opinion a perfect defence.

What I have read those trade-discussions, Canucks-guys have told that they don't need prospect centers or defencemen. They want young forwards and wingers forwards fit best in if they keep Kesler. I really think that because we have so many great winger prospects (maybe too many, all will never fit to Red Wings anyhow) behind proven guys like Tatar that would interest the opposite organization, we should consider really hard this chance to acquire Edler and sending at least one young great winger to Vancouver. We have Pulkkinen knocking the door etc. could have realgud home-grown replacements for the lost player.

How do Edler and Ehrhoff compare in these stats?

 

[Henkka]

How do Edler and Ehrhoff compare in these stats?

Pretty same kind of guys in Ice-time, but Ehrhoff has A LOT easier qualcomp on his team, has got relatively more offensive zone starts and those are mostly against easier Eastern Conference opponents.

I'm pretty sure Edler would flourish at East if he has now some "problems" at the toughest possible NHL division.

I also prefer Edler, because he is 4 years younger and he would still be there on his prime, when our new prospect generation jumps in. Our next organizational peak will be at 2019-20, and then Edler would be 32-33 years old. Ehrhoff would be 36-37, past his prime.

 

[InjuredChoker]

ehrhoff has better stats on pk and ES. pretty even on pp. though that is little unfair for ehrhoff as edler has had better players to work with in vancouver.

ehrhoff has better vision and is better QB but edler has better shot.

ehrhoff has better outlet pass and is one of the best dman at transitioning from D to O. just look at what happened to canucks in that regard when he left. i'd also say he's better skater.

neither are defensive studs. edler has mean streak but is more inconsistent.

edler is younger and isn't tied until the world ends.

 

[Henkka]

How was that scoring from last 4 years (or something), before this Edler's bad season in a Tortorella mess?