Post-Game Talk: Poor discipline and poor reffing is a bad combination

[Captain Fantastic]

wrong thread

 

[The Panther]

Yeesh, how in hell was that Morgan O'Rielly hit not a 5-minute major and a game...? And the Leafs got a power play out of all that? WTF??

 

[Drivesaitl]

If you think a ref calling penalties in the playoffs against a player simply because he was critical of what was obviously a very poorly called game is professional then we have a very different view of what professional means. This may be just a game but it is also a multi-billion dollar business. Just as player have a responsibility to be disciplined so do the referees.

Now what I do agree with you is that the League is responsible for how games are officiated and that there is no uniform application of the rules. I don't believe there is a mandate to help certain specific teams over others as some do. What I believe is that there is a culture that sees how the rules are enforced as being a mechanism for equalizing discrepancies between teams and players. As I have said, the refs are fully aware for example that the Oiler pp has been the best of all-time. They are also aware that if they called offenses vs McDavid like they do against some plug that it would be a massive plus for the Oilers. (And for the record this is true of other stars as well.) Danault sitting on McDavid is ok since you have to give him some chance to equalize the match-up. Kostin sitting on some plug is a penalty because it clearly violates the rules.

We do know though that certain players are dealt with differently. Some more lenient, some stricter. In teh Anaheim series when Perry got away with blatant interference on Talbot, the ref literally admitted that he let it go just because that is how Perry plays and you wouldn't want to stop a vet from doing what he does.

My problem is that by trying not to impact the play they impact the play. In the Vegas-Winnipeg game there was a blatant hook just before the Vegas goal that was right in front of the ref. He let it go probably because the Jets completed the clear so you could argue that it did not impact the play. But before the next whistle Vegas scores. Had the hook been called that goal does not happen. My guess is that in the first period with Vegas up. That hook gets called.

In the end though it is what it is. The Oilers need to simply overcome the refereeing and beat these guys.

Its quite simple. you think officials should take the axe first hand re: their employment in what is an unprofessionally run league whereby league directives themselves compromise first and foremost the ability of officials to call a legitimate game.

The rot in the NHL starts at the top and works its way down. The NHL as I've stated plays favorites with teams and players and chronically has.

I wasn't at any point invoking what my view of professionalism is, I was describing the back drop of the NHL. If you think this league is professionally run you're welcome to thinking that.

 

[tardigrade81]

Yeah, I wonder as well. I think he's gassed. That style of play for a full season has consequences.

Ya it’s tough to tell what you do during the regular season. Maybe he needed less minutes or time off. Having him at half what he is during the playoffs is killing us

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Yeesh, how in hell was that Morgan O'Rielly hit not a 5-minute major and a game...? And the Leafs got a power play out of all that? WTF??

Didn't look like much to me other than a lost battle by Point.

 

[MessierII]

Mcdavid, Nuge, Hyman without an even strength point. Kane with just one and an empty netter. These guys need to step up.

 

[CycloneSweep]

 

[walktheboulavard]

Mcdavid, Nuge, Hyman without an even strength point. Kane with just one and an empty netter. These guys need to step up.

They'll "regress to the mean" and start producing. Would be nice if they let them play instead of turning the game into a special teams affair. Mainly putting the Oilers on the PK and Kings on the PP.

 

[T-Funk]

They'll "regress to the mean" and start producing. Would be nice if they let them play instead of turning the game into a special teams affair. Mainly putting the Oilers on the PK and Kings on the PP.

I know we were all hoping for a lot of powerplays in this series. I guess we weren't specific enough

 

[Fourier]

Its quite simple. you think officials should take the axe first hand re: their employment in what is an unprofessionally run league whereby league directives themselves compromise first and foremost the ability of officials to call a legitimate game.

The rot in the NHL starts at the top and works its way down. The NHL as I've stated plays favorites with teams and players and chronically has.

I wasn't at any point invoking what my view of professionalism is, I was describing the back drop of the NHL. If you think this league is professionally run you're welcome to thinking that.

Ok. We may not really be so far off. I stand by my claim that a ref who would intentionally call cheap penalties in the playoffs against a player just to get back at him is highly unprofessional and should be fired. There is too much riding on each game for that sort of thing to be tolerated. Now do I think it happens. Yes, but no referee would ever be fired for such behaviour. Do I think that the NHl itself is most responsible for issues around refereeing. Absolutely. The refs reflect the wishes of the league.

 

[walktheboulavard]

 

[Bryanbryoil]

View attachment 694461

Correct. Bitch about it but also use it as motivation.

 

[Fourier]

Thank you. YES to all points.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of sad and deluded Oilers' fans on here, who are very vocal.

Here's the thing: When you are a championship level team, you don't make excuses like "the league is trying to call more penalties against us." You WIN.

Way back in the day, when the superior Oilers were down 1-0, 2-1, and 3-2 in games to Calgary in 1986, the fanbase wasn't moaning about penalties and power-plays and conspiracies. (And this was shortly after the League GMs had literally conspired to punish the Oilers' success by eliminating 4-on-4 after coincidental minor penalties.) Instead, the fanbase said, "Coffey has to be better. Kurri has to score. Messier needs to do more." Etc. The Oilers lost the series, but nobody blamed the referees.

In 1990, when the Oilers were down 3-1 in games to Winnipeg, the fanbase didn't moan about penalties (the Oil lost game four in overtime, due to a Jets' power-play, after a cheap "hooking" call against Edmonton). Instead, the fanbase said, "Messier needs to step it up; Tikkanen needs to be smarter; Simpson needs to score; Ranford needs to make some saves", etc. The Oilers came back from 3-1 down and won the series (and the Cup).

So, my point is: If you want to sound exactly like Maple Leafs' fans, keep blaming the officials and League conspiracy. Alternatively, if you don't want to look pathetic and you want to exude an intelligent and "champions"-like fan perspective, ask the players to play better.

(BTW, the Oilers are going to win the series, I think.)

As someone who was in the building during those years I have no problem saying that the fan base back then would have acted exactly like this under the same circumstances. There is a reason why referees stopped wearing their names on their jerseys. Individual refs in the 80's and early 90's took way more abuse from fans than they do today. They were known to the fanbase far more than these guys are today. Today's refs are mostly anonymous to all be the most die hard fans.

It is possible to simultaneously see significant issues with how games are refereed and to believe that this impacts the outcome of the games and at the same time recognize that it is what it is so the players themselves have to find a way to overcome all of this. The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[walktheboulavard]

Correct. Bitch about it but also use it as motivation.

Absolutely. Also, closed mouths don't get fed. If you don't let them hear your disdain they'll continue to walk on you like a treadmill. Especially when the Oilers are out playing them in almost every facet of the game and deserve to win. If they were getting out played I would understand, but they literally have the puck all the time. How is the PP 15-8 for the Kings lol.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

See, if we're all supposed to go "aw shucks", nothing will ever get done.

Make enough noise, others start to notice. Look how much attention it's got already that the Oilers were f***ed.

A lot of Winnipeg fans were already on the lookout with Hanson and Furlatt and they experienced the same double-fisting the Oilers got.

This is a league wide problem, not just an isolated case. The more noise people make, the more negative attention it'll get and just maybe the league will recognize there's issues. It's wishful thinking I know but hockey is broken.

 

[Louis Cypher]

Here were the results from last year's series:

Game 1, May 2
Los Angeles Kings	4	F
Edmonton Oilers	3

Game 2, May 4
Los Angeles Kings	0	F
Edmonton Oilers	6

Game 3, May 6
Edmonton Oilers	8	F
Los Angeles Kings	2

Game 4, May 8
Edmonton Oilers	0	F
Los Angeles Kings	4

Game 5, May 10
Los Angeles Kings	5	F
Edmonton Oilers	4	OT

Game 6, May 12
Edmonton Oilers	4	F
Los Angeles Kings	2

Game 7, May 14
Los Angeles Kings	0	F
Edmonton Oilers	2

 

[McAsuno]

See, if we're all supposed to go "aw shucks", nothing will ever get done.

Make enough noise, others start to notice. Look how much attention it's got already that the Oilers were f***ed.

A lot of Winnipeg fans were already on the lookout with Hanson and Furlatt and they experienced the same double-fisting the Oilers got.

This is a league wide problem, not just an isolated case. The more noise people make, the more negative attention it'll get and just maybe the league will recognize there's issues. It's wishful thinking I know but hockey is broken.

Yep. Leafs and the Eastern media went berserk on the officials after game 1. A lot of leaf fans had all of these wild conspiracies against Wes McCauley.
Now look at tonight's OT as an example. They let them play it out.
PS: f*** the kings.

 

[KCC]

I think what frustrates me the most is that I'm watching the other playoff series and teams are going after each other, battling and being physical and EDM is doing the exact same thing but because of Kings are embellishing and diving all over the place they are getting dinged. Even the self inflicted penalties EDM has taken I've seen that in other series and nothing was called. I just want consistency.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Absolutely. Also, closed mouths don't get fed. If you don't let them hear your disdain they'll continue to walk on you like a treadmill. Especially when the Oilers are out playing them in almost every facet of the game and deserve to win. If they were getting out played I would understand, but they literally have the puck all the time. How is the PP 15-8 for the Kings lol.

And yet they have scored the same amount of goals even strength.

 

[Louis Cypher]

Yeesh, how in hell was that Morgan O'Rielly hit not a 5-minute major and a game...? And the Leafs got a power play out of all that? WTF??

Didn't hit him in the numbers.

 

[walktheboulavard]

See, if we're all supposed to go "aw shucks", nothing will ever get done.

Make enough noise, others start to notice. Look how much attention it's got already that the Oilers were f***ed.

A lot of Winnipeg fans were already on the lookout with Hanson and Furlatt and they experienced the same double-fisting the Oilers got.

This is a league wide problem, not just an isolated case. The more noise people make, the more negative attention it'll get and just maybe the league will recognize there's issues. It's wishful thinking I know but hockey is broken.

In all other sports, Superstars/teams with superstars receive majority of calls. Mostly because they have possession due to superior skill and plugs are are forced to evade fair competition by resorting to extra curriculars.

But not hockey, hockey is different. Imagine Patrick Beverly was allowed to sit on Giannis Antetokounmpo because his calling card is a defensive specialist and not get called for a foul; the NBA would never.

And yet they have scored the same amount of goals even strength.

Maybe if they actually allowed the game to be played even strength instead of force feeding the Kings PP's there would be larger sample size for the results to even out and Oilers would be outscoring them.

 

[mkatcherin00]

The Oilers have to play as hard as they always have been and keep their sticks to themselves. Do not even think about getting into extra curricular activities. Do not give them a chance to flop.

I say all this and this is where frustration will come in. A king will give an Oilers multiple crosschecks in the corner and nothing. A guy like Ekholm gives black eyes from Translavania Koptiar one, this guy embellishes the sh** out of it lol. His head snapped hard. Watched it five times.

The Oilers have to start embellishing and also just avoiding the Kings. Don't give the refs any reason to give you a call.

The sad thing is the refs have anabled embellishment. The Oilers could play 99% clean tomorrow and one nice clean run at a King and that King will wither and flop around for a call.

Keefe says the Lightning are manipulating the officials.

Has nice Woody said a peep? Or is he going to take it with lube for the rest of the series?

 

[MessierII]

Has nice Woody said a peep? Or is he going to take it with lube for the rest of the series?

He hasn’t said anything about the kings flopping but he called the zebras out pretty hard on the Draisaitl call right after we scored and the goal review.

 

[Da McBomb]

Kopitar looked like a friggin bobblehead on that light Ekholm check.. pathetic that the refs called that a penalty. Same with Desharnais's and Draisaitl's penalties... such incredibly weak calls. But I digress... oilers still have to play the Kings hard but be a bit smarter and not give the refs any chances to call any penalties. I'm mostly looking at you Draisaitl and Kane.

 

[The Panther]

As someone who was in the building during those years I have no problem saying that the fan base back then would have acted exactly like this under the same circumstances. There is a reason why referees stopped wearing their names on their jerseys. Individual refs in the 80's and early 90's took way more abuse from fans than they do today. They were known to the fanbase far more than these guys are today. Today's refs are mostly anonymous to all be the most die hard fans.

I'm not sure the name-recognition of the referees is what I was talking about, but anyway...