Post-Game Talk: Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Red Wings - Yiiiiiiiiikes...

[destroy]

ok, lets forget about Malkin. Tapma right now has 4 good goalies. Bishop, Nabokov, Gudlevskis, Vasilevskii. They don't need that much. Pens can aim for Gudlevskis.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Martin is going to be paid very close to what Letang's making right now. I think Letang can be an idiot, but I'd rather have him. He's just as good defensively when he's locked in like this past postseason. And is just a superior talent. He's also entering his prime and not leaving it like Martin.

We'll see about Martin's salary. Every offseason is different and the market changes every year. You could very well be right though.

Yeah Letang is very good when locked in. Establishing a pattern of when that comes and goes is anyone's guess, and he's still a $7.25m Dman that can't shoot on the PP or match up against a top forward. It's absurd.

 

[Ogrezilla]

The disparity is accurate, because I think anyone that thinks Letang isn't at least a notch below Subban is kidding themselves.

Letang in 2011 and 2012 seemed to have really taken a huge step forward. Since then, he's taken a step back for sure. The last two years he looks like the player he was expected to be when he was taken in the second round instead of the player he looked like he was becoming a few years ago. That player from 2011 and 2012 was a top 10 d-man in the league, and would be in discussions with PK Subban. But that isn't the player he is right now, and I don't know that he ever will be again. I have had hope that he would get back to that with health, but it isn't happening yet certainly.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

And what trade would you make that would help the team in that case? Even in a theoretical case that we could get anyone there is no goalie that is close to the value of Malkin and then once you move back to reality it's even worse.

Fleury is more than adequate enough to get this team to the playoffs, the gripes aren't the regular season things, it's fairly typical of him to be the way he is in the regular season (it's why I am not happy at all with the Goalie Coach decision), it's the playoffs that we worry about. People need to relax with the Fleury stuff, he's not getting moved in season, the team needs him to make it to the playoffs.

 

[Gurglesons]

We'll see about Martin's salary. Every offseason is different and the market changes every year. You could very well be right though.

Yeah Letang is very good when locked in. Establishing a pattern of when that comes and goes is anyone's guess, and he's still a $7.25m Dman that can't shoot on the PP or match up against a top forward. It's absurd.

At least he isn't Brian Campbell or Dion Phaneuf at the same cap hit.

 

[gordie]

ok, lets forget about Malkin. Tapma right now has 4 good goalies. Bishop, Nabokov, Gudlevskis, Vasilevskii. They don't need that much. Pens can aim for Gudlevskis.

The two Syracuse goalies you mentioned don't seem to be NHL ready.Prospects in goal they have, so more the likely they would be looking to get a guy like Jonathan Bernier was in LA who is ready to be the number 1.

 

[mpp9]

We'll see about Martin's salary. Every offseason is different and the market changes every year. You could very well be right though.

Yeah Letang is very good when locked in. Establishing a pattern of when that comes and goes is anyone's guess, and he's still a $7.25m Dman that can't shoot on the PP or match up against a top forward. It's absurd.

Keith can't run a PP either. And Hjalmarsson and Oduya play a ton of the difficult minutes for that team.

Letang needs a stable partner and to simplify his game. It's October. I'd like to see how he looks in the spring before saying he can't do this or that.

 

[Kristopher Letang]

ok, lets forget about Malkin. Tapma right now has 4 good goalies. Bishop, Nabokov, Gudlevskis, Vasilevskii. They don't need that much. Pens can aim for Gudlevskis.

If you think Fleury's problem is going to be solved this season with a trade you are just lying to yourself. Deal with it, we are going in the playoffs with Fleury and Greiss. The goalie problem is going to be addressed during the off-season because it depends on Fleury during the Playoffs. The assets we have (Martin) are going to be used for top-6 fix and the useless players (Scuderi) are getting dumped if JR finds a way. Adams is entering the Playoffs as a Penguins, why? Because of all the problems, he's not the biggest.

For the rest, it's a work in progress. Players needs to learn the system and I'm confident when it's done we'll be great.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Nothing dumb about using Letang's salary against him. 7M dollars for someone that barely deserves half of it is pretty spot on.

 

[Shady Machine]

ok, lets forget about Malkin. Tapma right now has 4 good goalies. Bishop, Nabokov, Gudlevskis, Vasilevskii. They don't need that much. Pens can aim for Gudlevskis.

Is Gudlevskis an upgrade on MAF right now? I highly doubt it.

 

[mikethelegacy]

For every bad play I see from Letang, I see a lot of subtle little things that are very very important. I've seen tons of great net-front play and clears from Tanger so far this year. It just sucks that when he makes mistakes, they are glaring ones.

 

[Shady Machine]

Nothing dumb about using Letang's salary against him. 7M dollars for someone that barely deserves half of it is pretty spot on.

You are better than this.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Nothing dumb about using Letang's salary against him. 7M dollars for someone that barely deserves half of it is pretty spot on.

Letang is worth a hell of a lot closer to 7.25M than 3.625M.

 

[Gurglesons]

Nothing dumb about using Letang's salary against him. 7M dollars for someone that barely deserves half of it is pretty spot on.

Players in Letang's salary range... Dan Girardi, Matt Niskanen, Andrei Markov, Dion Phaneuf, Matt Carle, Mike Green.

Letang's contract is not the issue and he already looks like a solid contract for the amount of time he provides. His pairing with Maatta makes no sense at all right now. The Martin - Ehrhoff pairing makes no sense at all right now, the only pairing that has looked halfway decent is Scuds and Despres.

For every bad play I see from Letang, I see a lot of subtle little things that are very very important. I've seen tons of great net-front play and clears from Tanger so far this year. It just sucks that when he makes mistakes, they are glaring ones.

This is part of being paired with Maatta. They are both players that take risks and if you watch them, they both step up and then get beaten when a player comes through the neutral zone with speed. Not to mention when they both step up there are already two forwards at the top of the blue line ready to break into the offensive zone, rather than clog up the neutral zone. The last two games have looked like Bylsma in the neutral zøne. What happened to short passes? Puck support? We haven't seen that since the Isles game.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

ok, lets forget about Malkin. Tapma right now has 4 good goalies. Bishop, Nabokov, Gudlevskis, Vasilevskii. They don't need that much. Pens can aim for Gudlevskis.

Nabokov is not a long term solution at all, so really it's 3 and they can take their time with the latter two since Bishop is their #1.

Kristers is who I would go after, but I don't know who Tampa would want for him. As always, I'd peddle Dumoulin + 2nd.

 

[Will Hunting]

I'm calling out Paul Martin, Christian Ehrhoff and Kristopher Letang. These guys are vets, but are playing like complete hot garbage.

All three of them have played MUCH, MUCH better in the past - their resumes speak for themselves.

Get your **** heads out of your ***es and play hockey like you are supposed to. 2 blown leads late in the last 4 games.

Disgusting. Embarrassing.

Exactly my thoughts. We are seeing some unacceptable stuff from these vets. Shockingly bad.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Is Gudlevskis an upgrade on MAF right now? I highly doubt it.

I see that move more like getting a guy in the system that is closer to ready. Because what's the alternative?

The Pens go after Ramo next off season? Niemi? Until Jarry is ready and if Murray shows some promise? Zatkoff should stay in the AHL where he's a legit #1.

 

[gordie]

For every bad play I see from Letang, I see a lot of subtle little things that are very very important. I've seen tons of great net-front play and clears from Tanger so far this year. It just sucks that when he makes mistakes, they are glaring ones.

Letang is by no means to blame for anything. But if you have the same type of players Ehrhoff for example and Pouliot in the minors. It is easier to move Letang to say Detroit and get some good young forwards and cap relief. I pick Detroit because of their well known desire to replace Lidstrom with another big name defenseman.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Take Letang off of the top powerplay and put him on the 2nd and people will suddenly ***** a lot less about him. Is that a lot to pay a guy who can't play on the top unit? Sure it is. But does it really matter when you are paying Maatta or Ehrhoff what they make to take that top unit spot?

 

[MtlPenFan]

Subban was out of control until they hired a former Pittsburgh head coach. Who the coach is matters and this is not a shot at Johnston but at the former regime who coached Letang here.

Oh **** no he wasn't. Oh **** no. This is worse than your Despres on Helm nonsense yesterday.

Whatever flaws Subban had is the usual growing pains stuff. Therrien didn't coach him up, just had to prove he's the boss for the sake of it, much of it to the team's detriment.

The kid is awesome, plain and simple. Letang's a VETERAN and still makes the same stupid mistakes he always has.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Someone said, we have Erhoff and Pouliot. Why would you need Letang.

Thought about it and Letang is really one of the only D-Men capable of playing a consistently good physical top 4 game. Thats why i'm so hesitant to trade him right now.

If Harrington and Maata were more matured sure but like i said:

Move Martin and Scuds
Pick up a pk'ing physical vet that can play in your top 4
And the D-Core is more than fine that scenario

 

[mpp9]

Nothing dumb about using Letang's salary against him. 7M dollars for someone that barely deserves half of it is pretty spot on.

What you just said is the exact opposite of spot on.

 

[billybudd]

Letang in 2011 and 2012 seemed to have really taken a huge step forward. Since then, he's taken a step back for sure. The last two years he looks like the player he was expected to be when he was taken in the second round instead of the player he looked like he was becoming a few years ago. That player from 2011 and 2012 was a top 10 d-man in the league, and would be in discussions with PK Subban. But that isn't the player he is right now, and I don't know that he ever will be again. I have had hope that he would get back to that with health, but it isn't happening yet certainly.

Two years ago, Subban and 58 were about the same. Two talented boneheads that put up big numbers. I thought 58 was pretty good through 4 this year, but after games like last night it's becoming difficult to deny that, overall, Subban's smartening up a lot faster than KL is.

 

[Gurglesons]

Take Letang off of the top powerplay and put him on the 2nd and people will suddenly ***** a lot less about him. Is that a lot to pay a guy who can't play on the top unit? Sure it is. But does it really matter when you are paying Maatta or Ehrhoff what they make to take that top unit spot?

Why not just put Letang and Ehrhoff on the points and put Malkin down low? Also, Letang suffers from the same issue all of our players do on the power play, he never ****ing shoots the puck.

 

[mpp9]

Subban gets walked quite a few times in the games I've seen. Makes risky passes. Can hold onto the puck way too long. And has been benched by his coach numerous times.

It's ****ing stupid that guy is viewed as twice the player Letang is.