Post-Game Talk: Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Red Wings - Yiiiiiiiiikes...

[Speaking Moistly]

Further proof the +/- stat is garbage without context. Judging by the above, one would think Martin and Ehrhoff have been good, while Maatta has been below par. Yet, Martin and Ehrhoff have largely been garbage this season, while Maatta's consistently been the only bright light on the blueline.

It's a weak stat in general because it's so simple. It was more about their respective production. Letang's ES production wasn't something I was expecting, if he wasn't on that PP he'd have no points and every other defenseman who isn't Scuderi has managed to do it. Conversely, Maatta has the same number of points as Letang but did it without PP1 and most of them came away from Letang. I was more surprised about Scuderi than anything, tbh, he's just got so many zeros. If Scuderi didn't have 1 shot on net it would be all zeros on his overall stat line right now, it's weirdly impressive. I don't know how he's done it because he's looked so bad that you'd think he'd have a notable minus, but, no, he somehow has a shot on goal (Geno, you fool).

Maatta's took a blow in the last two games when the team was crappy all around.

ANA 2
TOR 0
DAL 0
NYI 0
PHI -3
DET -1

Letang has been similar.

ANA 1
TOR 0
DAL 0
NYI 0
PHI -4
DET -1

Martin has been surprisingly consistent, 2, 1, -1, 0, 3, -1. Same for Ehrhoff, 1, 2, -1, 0, 3, -1. No horrible lows. It's all a small sample size with a flimsy stat.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's a weak stat in general because it's so simple. It was more about their respective production. Letang's ES production wasn't something I was expecting, if he wasn't on that PP he'd have no points and every other defenseman who isn't Scuderi has managed to do it. Conversely, Maatta has the same number of points as Letang but did it without PP1 and most of them came away from Letang. I was more surprised about Scuderi than anything, tbh, he's just got so many zeros. If Scuderi didn't have 1 shot on net it would be all zeros on his overall stat line right now, it's weirdly impressive. I don't know how he's done it because he's looked so bad that you'd think he'd have a notable minus, but, no, he somehow has a shot on goal (Geno, you fool).

Maatta's took a blow in the last two games when the team was crappy all around.

ANA 2
TOR 0
DAL 0
NYI 0
PHI -3
DET -1

Letang has been similar.

ANA 1
TOR 0
DAL 0
NYI 0
PHI -4
DET -1

Martin has been surprisingly consistent, 2, 1, -1, 0, 3, -1. Same for Ehrhoff, 1, 2, -1, 0, 3, -1. No horrible lows. It's all a small sample size with a flimsy stat.

Yeah. +/- sucks.

 

[Will Hunting]

How Martin/Ehrhoff were +3 vs Philly?? Ehrhoff was a complete turnover factory in that game, it was definitely his worst game of the season (not that he´s been good otherwise). Maan, +/- is so useless indeed.

 

[Jackpot Jaret]

Ok, so now that Dupuis has a few points to start, people love him again? I don't hate the guy, considering that guys like Tanner Glass make $3 million, his contract isn't too bad.....but the fact of the matter, weve choked for 5 straight years, and Dupuis's hands disappear in the playoffs (I know he was hurt last year). Its the term, and a culture change is needed, period. I think Fleury, Dupuis, Letang should go, for the right return. I know its easier said then done, but that's an actual change then Hornquist and depth

 

[Zags91]

I had to laugh at how last night's game ended. It was almost a carbon copy with the Dallas game, except the OT point was earned. It's amazing how a team can come out firing so well to start the game. I think they have scored the first goal in every game except the Islanders game (may be wrong). They are usually the more aggressive team to start and then slowly but surely taper off until they completely lose all ability to make passes and get shots on the goal by the third period. Turnovers then cause the lead to be lost. Tomorrow night's game won't be any easier as the Preds haven't lost in regulation yet.

 

[Jackpot Jaret]

I think the worst part is, you just know its going to happen. After the Zetterberg goal, I still believed we could pull it out....then after watching Malkin and Dupuis miss their chance on the open net, i know we were cooked. Seen this too many times before. (different goalie this time though)

 

[Mr Wu]

Paul Martin really is a useless pile of lose.

 

[#66]

Totally agree man - Despres is making Bylsma look like a genius this year, as much as that hurts for me to say. At this stage, I wouldn't mind seeing Harrington take his spot just to see what he can bring to the table.

As far as Letang, he makes far too many boneheaded plays for a supposedly elite player. Like for instance, in overtime he has a 2 on 1 with Malkin and he makes the most sorry-ass pass attempt over to Malkin instead of shooting it. His decision making has always been and will continue to be questionable at times.

Cmon man..

Its weird. A kid like Maatta really cleaned his game up from his draft year but Despres just continues bone head plays. That 2009 draft was so skilled and great... and the Pens picks just make my skin crawl like an ebola sandwich.

Letang has such bad habits its unreal. Even when he makes a great play its usually covering up for a gaff. I really, REALLY hope this new coaching regime can help him become the player he should be because the Lah Dee Dah, "Its OK to make mistakes" Pens just aren't going to get it done.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Maatta is far from the norm. Its weirder that he's cleaned things up that fast than it is that Despres hasn't. Maatta also has more NHL experience than Despres at this point.

 

[Bjindaho]

Despres has finally been given the assist on the first goal (giving him a 2 point game).

He's currently tied for 27th in the league in hits IIRC (with Comeau) and leads the Pittsburgh D in hits by 10.

He's tied for 2nd on the Pitt D in blocked shots behind Letang. He's on pace for over 250 hits and over 100 blocked shots.

To put that in perspective, Orpik had 221 and 143 last year (the 200 and 100 club had only Franson, Gudas, Schenn, M Stuart, Phaneuf, Orpik, Lovejoy, M Weber and only the first 3 having 250 and 100).

 

[Bjindaho]

My point in this is this...

everyone acknowledges that Scuderi is an albatross. Despres has been up and down 5 on 5.

But his struggles are with decision making knowing in the back of his mind that his partner may not be where he's supposed to be (or may miss a tape to tape pass). That's enough to definitely say that he shouldn't be anywhere near the PP, but he profiles as the guy who should be the first PK defender over the boards every PP (the only guy who can clear the crease, separate puck carriers from the puck, and the best shot blocker per 60).

Hopefully, the coaching staff realizes this, because giving him PK time would help with his confidence and it is arguably low risk ice time for him (because there is very little decision making on the PK).

 

[Zbynek]

Maatta is far from the norm. Its weirder that he's cleaned things up that fast than it is that Despres hasn't. Maatta also has more NHL experience than Despres at this point.

Weird to think, but then again, Maatta has just always played this good, since his debut in the NHL. He truly seized the opportunity with very little room for error. Despres has had some ups and downs, but mostly just got dicked around by Dan. Their developments are hard to compare. I think if Maatta was getting sent up and down continually like Despres did you would see a very different Olli Maatta today. Developing is more than an instrinsic thing; it also means proving to your teammates in the big league that you belong there. Sucks how Despres never got that shot because he made one mistake in November two seasons ago

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Weird to think, but then again, Maatta has just always played this good, since his debut in the NHL. He truly seized the opportunity with very little room for error. Despres has had some ups and downs, but mostly just got dicked around by Dan. Their developments are hard to compare. I think if Maatta was getting sent up and down continually like Despres did you would see a very different Olli Maatta today. Developing is more than an instrinsic thing; it also means proving to your teammates in the big league that you belong there. Sucks how Despres never got that shot because he made one mistake in November two seasons ago

Playing Despres with Scuds, one of the statistically worst D men in the NHL, and yanking him around during his development is clearly making things as hard they possibly can be for him. Maatta played with a statistical monster in Niskanen last year, and has had stable playing time.

I would be very surprised if Despres had NOT struggled mightily under those circumstances. He needs to be put back with Bort immediately, especially considering the solid play that pairing has put up in the past albeit in limited games. Scuds has to ride the pines, there's really no way around it. Our D is soff, and if you take Despres off it for Bort, it's really not much of an improvement.

 

[zhenyas most fly rep]

Després is playing like a rookie, a lot of ups and down in his games.

Playing him with Scuderi 'the security blanket' is the worst possible pairing for him, as he is putting Saïmon under constant pressure with his awful passing. (Man, Steigy was hilarious that game with some gems like Martin has been good so far this season or that it was Ehrhoff 's best game. That actually means, if you're playing for the Pens, the last thing you want is to be praised by Steigy.)

Back to Després, they even have him playing on his wrong side.
BTW, if the only thing Scuderi will be able to do, once he gets to lose pucks, is fire some aimless passes to random people, then put him on the right side : let him clear all those lose pucks on his backhand of the glass as he generally likes to do, but don't impair Després's game any further.

Either that or scratch Scuderi (which we all know won't happen) or change the pairing (more likely)

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Despres is playing like a rookie because for all intents and purposes he is a rookie. I'd say the same thing about Bennett, or any younger guy not named Maatta who was Bylsma'd.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Despres is playing like a rookie because for all intents and purposes he is a rookie. I'd say the same thing about Bennett, or any younger guy not named Maatta who was Bylsma'd.

Exactly.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Després is playing like a rookie, a lot of ups and down in his games.

Playing him with Scuderi 'the security blanket' is the worst possible pairing for him, as he is putting Saïmon under constant pressure with his awful passing. (Man, Steigy was hilarious that game with some gems like Martin has been good so far this season or that it was Ehrhoff 's best game. That actually means, if you're playing for the Pens, the last thing you want is to be praised by Steigy.)

Back to Després, they even have him playing on his wrong side.
BTW, if the only thing Scuderi will be able to do, once he gets to lose pucks, is fire some aimless passes to random people, then put him on the right side : let him clear all those lose pucks on his backhand of the glass as he generally likes to do, but don't impair Després's game any further.

Either that or scratch Scuderi (which we all know won't happen) or change the pairing (more likely)

That's a good point, another reason he should be with Bort.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I agree with Bjindaho up there^.
Despres should be one of the first D over the boards for the PK.

ETA: Let's lock this up. Pens about to take the morning skate.

 

[vodeni]

Després is playing like a rookie, a lot of ups and down in his games.

Playing him with Scuderi 'the security blanket' is the worst possible pairing for him, as he is putting Saïmon under constant pressure with his awful passing. (Man, Steigy was hilarious that game with some gems like Martin has been good so far this season or that it was Ehrhoff 's best game. That actually means, if you're playing for the Pens, the last thing you want is to be praised by Steigy.)

Back to Després, they even have him playing on his wrong side.
BTW, if the only thing Scuderi will be able to do, once he gets to lose pucks, is fire some aimless passes to random people, then put him on the right side : let him clear all those lose pucks on his backhand of the glass as he generally likes to do, but don't impair Després's game any further.

Either that or scratch Scuderi (which we all know won't happen) or change the pairing (more likely)

good points, I am a fan

 

[zhenyas most fly rep]

Despres is playing like a rookie because for all intents and purposes he is a rookie. I'd say the same thing about Bennett, or any younger guy not named Maatta who was Bylsma'd.

Obviously he is, that wasn't meant as a critic, just stating what he looks like to me.
Guys like Crosby, Malkin or even Määttä (he did hit a wall a few weeks after the Olympics though) had out of norm rookie campaigns.

 

[ColePens]

Let's move on to tonight's game.