Players that should have Won the Conn Smythe?

JackSlater

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Apr 27, 2010
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I could see the voters holding the Kevin Weekes series against him and going with the more popular Francis who was one of very few skaters who had a little Hart buzz that year.

It's possible but I doubt it. Irbe came in and played very well against one huge market team (Montreal) and then stoned another huge market team (Toronto) and was getting a ton of buzz heading into the finals. Likable guy and easy underdog to root for. He also played pretty well against Detroit. You can't rule out a Niedermayer/Crosby/Williams type Conn Smythe going to Francis but I really think that Irbe gets it comfortably.
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
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I just think 408 minutes on the bench for a goaltender is going to be a lot to overcome when they’re voting. I think Billy Smith was the only other Conn Smythe winner to see his backup take more than two decisions, but Melanson only played 19.6% of the Islanders’ minutes; Weekes played 27.5% of the Hurricanes’ minutes.

For example, Giguere may have lost a second Conn Smythe to a weakish Niedermayer run when Bryzgalov took 20.0% of the Ducks’ minutes in 2007. And that was with him taking over the net; Irbe lost the job by getting pulled in back-to-back games against New Jersey and didn’t regain it until the next round.

i get that, but i just think irbe was too good that year against the leafs. it was toronto's clearest path to the finals and he was going up against peak cujo, who himself had a really good series (1.60 GAA, .937 SV%) and just totally completely outshone him. irbe's 0.96 GAA and .962 SV% in a six game series were bonkers. three 2-1 OT wins and a shutout.

that roll he got on, starting with the OT win against montreal trailing 2-1 in the series, rattling off three straight, then the toronto series, was giguere-esque. and as jackslater notes, irbe was a likable guy. a small goalie who once quit the red army team when tanks invaded riga during the singing revolution and he already had a previous memorable halak-like performance against the red wings in 1994. he had a lot going for him, even given kevin weekes' three (very impressive) wins.

but really i think it's the leafs being the leafs that's the x factor. like, if irbe had his second and third rounds against, say, the islanders and tampa, then i'd agree that it would be easy for the voters to just look at the stats sheet and say, "well ronnie franchise scored the most points, so..." but as it stands, did francis even distinguish himself in any of the series?
 
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Giotrapani91

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Oct 21, 2015
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I think had Roy not've won it in 86 Claude Lemieux would've gotten it there's no doubt he was second in the voting for Montreal I have that feeling, same in 93 damphousse was more than likely the highest Montreal skater in the voting. The only issue I have with Roy winning in 93 was he didn't have any shutouts, yeah he did good with keeping them in every game with 10 OT wins I'll give him that. But there were other guys on that Montreal roster who could've stole it. Everyone says that run in 93 is legendary and is top ten I don't think so personally I think Macinnis run in 89 was more legendary than Roy in 93. Cuz he was a 25 year old defenseman that led his team in assists and points. And had 4 game winning goals out of 7 goals, so more than half of his goals were game winning goals. I think Gretzky personally should've won in 84. He should be a 3 time conn smythe winner not Roy.
 

Varan

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Nov 27, 2016
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patrick kane in 2010. he was flat out SCREWED from that trophy after an AMAZING finals.

Toews outscored him by 1 point in the entire playoffs but if the point totals are close and you've made it that far, the SCF should take you home.

he should be a 2x winner
 

quoipourquoi

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Jan 26, 2009
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The only issue I have with Roy winning in 93 was he didn't have any shutouts

Probably good to consider the year - in the 1993 playoffs, only 6 shutouts were recorded in total. In the years leading into those playoffs (1980-1992), there were 5 occasions when the playoff leader in shutouts recorded just one. More than that, Montreal drew 4 of the top-7 offensive teams in the league, and their median shots allowed were 34.

I don’t know that it’s necessarily any better of a playoff run had he not let in what was Ray Ferraro’s 13th goal in 14 games in the last minute of what was a 4-1 game to open the 3rd Round - other than 26 years later someone can see 0 shutouts and wonder what that was about.
 
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Giotrapani91

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Oct 21, 2015
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Probably good to consider the year - in the 1993 playoffs, only 6 shutouts were recorded in total. In the years leading into those playoffs (1980-1992), there were 5 occasions when the playoff leader in shutouts recorded just one. More than that, Montreal drew 4 of the top-7 offensive teams in the league, and their median shots allowed were 34.

I don’t know that it’s necessarily any better of a playoff run had he not let in what was Ray Ferraro’s 13th goal in 14 games in the last minute of what was a 4-1 game to open the 3rd Round - other than 26 years later someone can see 0 shutouts and wonder what that was about.
Well nowadays they only give you the conn smythe if you have 4 or more shutouts. Sometimes 3 shutouts.
 

daver

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patrick kane in 2010. he was flat out SCREWED from that trophy after an AMAZING finals.

Toews outscored him by 1 point in the entire playoffs but if the point totals are close and you've made it that far, the SCF should take you home.

he should be a 2x winner

Was there that much difference in their 2-way play that Kane needed to score more?
 

Retire91

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May 31, 2010
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Vernon in 97 always made me shake my head. Not saying he didn't deserve it just that there were other more critical players. At that time the red wings always played a goalie that was good, they didn't need a great goalie to backstop that team. There was nothing about Vernon's performance that made me feel it was that elevated than just what he needed to do. Just saying if Vernon won in 97 by that logic there is no reason Osgood didn't win in 98.

I personally would have liked to see Yzerman get it to have a chance at back to back Smythes
Fedorov was the most deserving
Lidstrom was also more deserving than Vernon

But I never stew too much on Con Smythe because it's always easy to make an argument that 2-3 players could have won it.
 

Canucks1096

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Feb 13, 2016
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patrick kane in 2010. he was flat out SCREWED from that trophy after an AMAZING finals.

Toews outscored him by 1 point in the entire playoffs but if the point totals are close and you've made it that far, the SCF should take you home.

he should be a 2x winner

Also the Smythe voting is done in the third period of an elimination game. If Nobody wins the cup, the voting is done again in the next game. This mean when Kane scored the ot gwg in game 6. The voting was done already, if the voting was done afterwards, I think good chance Kane would of won the Smythe.
 
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Sentinel

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Vernon in 97 always made me shake my head. Not saying he didn't deserve it just that there were other more critical players. At that time the red wings always played a goalie that was good, they didn't need a great goalie to backstop that team. There was nothing about Vernon's performance that made me feel it was that elevated than just what he needed to do. Just saying if Vernon won in 97 by that logic there is no reason Osgood didn't win in 98.

I personally would have liked to see Yzerman get it to have a chance at back to back Smythes
Fedorov was the most deserving
Lidstrom was also more deserving than Vernon

But I never stew too much on Con Smythe because it's always easy to make an argument that 2-3 players could have won it.
I agree with everything you said (and Fedorov should've won the CS), but 97 Vernon was better than 98 Ozzie. Osgood let in THREE center ice goals in those playoffs, one in every series. That doesn't get you the Smythe.
 

Sadekuuro

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Aug 23, 2005
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patrick kane in 2010. he was flat out SCREWED from that trophy after an AMAZING finals.

Toews outscored him by 1 point in the entire playoffs but if the point totals are close and you've made it that far, the SCF should take you home.

he should be a 2x winner

Except every Hawks fan I know thinks the one he actually won should have gone to Corey Crawford.
 
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Giotrapani91

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Oct 21, 2015
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I agree with everything you said (and Fedorov should've won the CS), but 97 Vernon was better than 98 Ozzie. Osgood let in THREE center ice goals in those playoffs, one in every series. That doesn't get you the Smythe.
Ozzie had a helluva run in 08 though
 

Giotrapani91

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Oct 21, 2015
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Even better in 09. Detroit wins Game 7, he is in the HHOF.
I don't think that's why the hall is holding him back I think it's cuz of the blue line in front of him is why and his career save percentage of 906. Cujo has the same career save percentage and even though he never won a cup yeah he deserves to be inducted, I hate how they've been holding Tommy barasso back cuz he was a tool to the media but again Eddie the eagle belfour was the exact same way, I met a guy at a sporting goods store in Michigan who said he was signing autograph and just completely ignored the fans. Just had his head down signing not even interacting with them.
 

The Panther

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That Mike Vernon Conn Smythe in 1997 has to be one of the more dubious selections in the past 25 years... maybe the most. Don't get me wrong, he was great and deserving of accolades, but surely there were two or more Red Wings better. I think that's one of those years where, since the Wings were a deep team, winning by commitee, voters were confused and just went for the goalie since the Flyers had been shut down.

Was the Smythe voting for that year ever found?
 

JackSlater

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Apr 27, 2010
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That Mike Vernon Conn Smythe in 1997 has to be one of the more dubious selections in the past 25 years... maybe the most. Don't get me wrong, he was great and deserving of accolades, but surely there were two or more Red Wings better. I think that's one of those years where, since the Wings were a deep team, winning by commitee, voters were confused and just went for the goalie since the Flyers had been shut down.

Was the Smythe voting for that year ever found?

It's a kind of interesting case in that I don't think I've ever heard a Detroit fan say that Vernon should have won it, but I have seen essentially unanimity that Fedorov should have. I of course agree with that thinking.
 

JianYang

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Sep 29, 2017
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I think had Roy not've won it in 86 Claude Lemieux would've gotten it there's no doubt he was second in the voting for Montreal I have that feeling, same in 93 damphousse was more than likely the highest Montreal skater in the voting. The only issue I have with Roy winning in 93 was he didn't have any shutouts, yeah he did good with keeping them in every game with 10 OT wins I'll give him that. But there were other guys on that Montreal roster who could've stole it. Everyone says that run in 93 is legendary and is top ten I don't think so personally I think Macinnis run in 89 was more legendary than Roy in 93. Cuz he was a 25 year old defenseman that led his team in assists and points. And had 4 game winning goals out of 7 goals, so more than half of his goals were game winning goals. I think Gretzky personally should've won in 84. He should be a 3 time conn smythe winner not Roy.

I'm not sure who was 2nd in 93 for voting, and I know damphousse had the production, but I felt that kirk muller was the most important player after roy.
 

JianYang

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Sep 29, 2017
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That Mike Vernon Conn Smythe in 1997 has to be one of the more dubious selections in the past 25 years... maybe the most. Don't get me wrong, he was great and deserving of accolades, but surely there were two or more Red Wings better. I think that's one of those years where, since the Wings were a deep team, winning by commitee, voters were confused and just went for the goalie since the Flyers had been shut down.

Was the Smythe voting for that year ever found?

It could have also been a bias setting in because from what I recall, the wings were not getting good playoff goaltending for a few years, and it was a position they just couldn't figure out.

Vernon comes in, and while it was more probably a case of right place, right time, it fit the narrative that he was the missing piece that finally got the wings over the hump, which overstated his importance to the club.
 

Sentinel

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It could have also been a bias setting in because from what I recall, the wings were not getting good playoff goaltending for a few years, and it was a position they just couldn't figure out.

Vernon comes in, and while it was more probably a case of right place, right time, it fit the narrative that he was the missing piece that finally got the wings over the hump, which overstated his importance to the club.
Close but not exactly true. Vernon had three playoff campaigns in the Wings uniform and every time the Wings were the overwhelming favorites. He couldn't steal a win in the first two. The third one was better, and the Wings owe their Game 3 and 6 in the Avs series to him. Fedorov and even Yzerman were better and overall more valuable. Vernon was just more of a "wow, he finally got it done, he must have been better than he's been before."

At the time no Wings fan minded. We were so happy, we would be OK had the CS gone to Kirk Maltby. In retrospect, it would be nice if Feds got it.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
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Hasek.

Dragging that rag-tag lot of average joes to Game 6 OT against SIX (6) HHOFers!!!!!!

(Not to mention defensive giants Hatcher and Lehtinen; clutch goal scoring Langenbrunner)

If you were to rank players from both clubs it'd be:

1st Buffalo (Hasek)
2nd Dallas
3rd Dallas
4th Dallas
5th Dallas
6th Dallas
7th Dallas
8th Dallas
9th Dallas
10th Dallas
11th Buffalo (Peca)

Just ridiculous!
 

quoipourquoi

Goaltender
Jan 26, 2009
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I still don’t really get people’s umbrage with the Mike Vernon Conn Smythe. Everyone on Detroit has pretty pedestrian numbers and they’re one of the lesser performing offensive teams to win the Stanley Cup (by my count, the 9th worst from 1968-2017)...

1968-2017 - Lowest Scoring Stanley Cup Champions (GvE and TvE Analysis)

...meanwhile Mike Vernon’s 1.76 GAA and .927 save percentage look kinda like Hart winner Dominik Hasek’s 2.27 GAA and .930 save percentage on the season. Obviously they didn’t give him a whole lot of work at ~24 shots-per-game, but he played well above average (.905).

Detroit had a 42:32 goal differential in the Western Conference Playoffs. If Vernon had dipped anywhere close to average, that team might be running into a problem in any one of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds instead of taking it 12-4.

Did he necessarily have a better playoff than Conference Final knockouts Richter (.932) or Roy (.932)? No.

Did Fedorov (20 points) necessarily have a better playoff than the six players that outscored him or the 8 players from the final four teams that had better per-game numbers? Also no.
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
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Except every Hawks fan I know thinks the one he actually won should have gone to Corey Crawford.
If I recall he even said it in the interview right after he got it.

Crawford didn't get it due to goalie fatigue - that's the only reason. Thomas and Quick won the two prior, so going a goalie three years in a row just turned voters off.
 
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