Players that should have Won the Conn Smythe?

[TheDevilMadeMe]

potvin, fedorov, pronger, and doughty are the guys that imo absolutely deserved at least one smythe but got zero.

81, 97, 06, and 14 are the obvious years for each guy because he was demonstrably better than the winner, but they each also had other years with equally good arguments.

Agree for the most part, though I think Brind'amour had just as good a case in 2006 as Pronger.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Agree for the most part, though I think Brind'amour had just as good a case in 2006 as Pronger.

i have pronger a little ahead but i agree with that. i think you could also make a very strong argument for bossy/trots in '81, lidstrom in '97, kopitar in '14.

but in each of those years, the winner probably shouldn't have won it, and a guy who turned out to have close calls multiple times had his best shot to get "his."

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Going back and watching games the commentators brought up Lidstrom's name in the finals as well because he really dominated defensively and in transition. If Yzerman had more points it would have went to him simply for sentimental reasons. That's how these types of awards are deal with at times unfortunately.

I also rewatched game 4 of the ’97 finals recently and made note of the announcers praising Lidstrom as being something to the effect of “the unsung hero” of the Red Wings, having been tasked with and successfully shutting down Brett Hull, Selänne+Kariya, and Forsberg before taking on the Legion of Doom. He was low key excellent as I guess most were yet to realize at the time, a few years prior to his Norris subscription. He only had 2-6-8 in 20 games though, so his scoring was uncharacteristically low.

 

[danincanada]

I also rewatched game 4 of the ’97 finals recently and made note of the announcers praising Lidstrom as being something to the effect of “the unsung hero” of the Red Wings, having been tasked with and successfully shutting down Brett Hull, Selänne+Kariya, and Forsberg before taking on the Legion of Doom. He was low key excellent as I guess most were yet to realize at the time, a few years prior to his Norris subscription. He only had 2-6-8 in 20 games though, so his scoring was uncharacteristically low.

I rewatched it months ago too and remember the same comments but I stil think that was Fedorov's CS.

Lidstrom had a really good case for the '98 CS. He was every bit as valuable as Yzerman on the ice, if not more, but the narrative of the long serving captain leading the team in points was going to seal it for Yzerman no matter what.

 

[sr edler]

Claude Julien should have won the 2011 Smythe, as much as I dislike his whining.

 

[BigKing]

Doughty was robbed in 2014. Not that Williams was a bad pick, but I feel like they were giving him some sort of lifetime achievement award for being good in the playoffs / being known as Mr Game 7. Doughty was outstanding that spring.

Doughty had the momentum going in to the SCF but Williams stole the show with seven points in five games. They took that, added it to the Game 7 magic the Kings had to pull off just to get there and there you have it. Off of memory, I know he scored a goal in Game 7 of the Ducks and Hawks series and at least an assist in the San Jose one. It's almost like the writers might not have watched all of the Kings games but they tuned in for Game 7s and he was always on the score sheet.

Tough to just hand it to Doughty though since Kopitar was amazing as was Gaborik. Kopitar was unstoppable in 2012 as well but Quick's numbers were so silly that there was no way it wasn't going to him.

 

[c9777666]

How about Mike Richter in 94? Was Leetch truly a slam dunk choice that year?

 

[quoipourquoi]

How about Mike Richter in 94? Was Leetch truly a slam dunk choice that year?

I think his underwhelming Games 5 and 6 with a chance to clinch took him out of contention. As great as he was against New York and Washington, which normally would have carried the narrative going into the final two rounds, Leetch had 17 points in those 9 games.

Richter looks fantastic in an evaluation that strictly looks at a team’s victories, but he did have 27 GA in the Rangers’ 7 losses. The Rangers’ losses really killed Richter’s numbers, whereas their affect on Leetch’s and Messier’s numbers were less substantial (4 points and 6 points in 7 games respectively).

 

[goeb]

Even though it has been mentioned countless times, I thought Brind'amour was a shoe-in for 2006. His leadership was unreal during that playoff run. Ward was stellar during the playoffs but he definitely had some rough games during the post-season.

Here re my other picks, sorry if someone alreayd mentioned them but am too lazy to read through ALL the posts right now:

1. I still am not a fan of Neiuwendyk winning in 1999. 6 GWGs is impressive and can't discount 11 goals for mainly a defensive team but Hasek was the man during the playoffs. I know he missed a few games due to injury but his stats were incredible and Sabres wouldn't have even sniffed a finals appearance without him. A 93.9% save % and a 1.77 GAA, truly phenomenal, especially for that era (which wasn't fully the dead puck era yet)

2. I'll probably get flack for this one, but I do believe Kolzig deserved the 1998 Conn Smythe. 94.1 save % is an incredible feat and the fact he got the Caps to the finals that year is unreal. They were a decent team and Kolzig managed to to even outperform Hasek in round 3. Lets not forget, this team got outshot 36-11 by an 8th seeded Ottawa Teams in Game 4 ..and still won 2-0. they got badly outshot in multiple games.

3. I still feel like Kane deserved the 2015 Smythe. Keith had an impressive playoffs but I just felt Kane was the best during those playoffs for the Hawks.

 

[jcs0218]

Fedorov in '97.

Or even 1998.

I personally think Lidstrom should have won in 1997. He did a number on Sakic, Forsberg, and the Legion of Doom line. He didn't score much, but he was defensively dominant.

Then Fedorov should have won in 1998, followed by Yzerman in 2002.

 

[jcs0218]

Has anyone else felt that sometimes Conn Smythes are given to a player who was maybe snubbed in a previous playoff?

For example, I think Niedermayer was the best player from start to finish during the 2003 Playoffs. Giguere win the Conn Smythe that year.

Then Niedermayer wins the Conn Smythe in 2007, when I felt he was actually only the 4th most valuable Duck those playoffs (behind Pronger, Giguere, and Pahlsson).

It seemed like the 2007 Conn Smythe was a "make up" for the 2003 snub.

I have felt this way with other players too.

 

[jcs0218]

Also, Brindamour should have gotten it in 2006. He was the man who made that Canes team work. Staal would have been a better pick than Ward too. Seems like the main reason they gave it to Ward was that Gerber was so bad.

Brind'Amour would have been my pick.

He was the two-way horse that year. Scored the key goals, took all the key faceoffs, defended against the top line, was the unquestioned leader. Etc.

That Hurricanes team was very resilient. It seemed they always were able to bounce back from adversity and win the key games. They won 2 Game 7s.

I think Brind'Amour's leadership guided the way for them.

 

[jcs0218]

Even though it has been mentioned countless times, I thought Brind'amour was a shoe-in for 2006. His leadership was unreal during that playoff run. Ward was stellar during the playoffs but he definitely had some rough games during the post-season.

...

3. I still feel like Kane deserved the 2015 Smythe. Keith had an impressive playoffs but I just felt Kane was the best during those playoffs for the Hawks.

I agree with Brind'Amour, for the exact reason you said.

As for the 2015 Conn Smythe? Kane was very good. But Keith was logging some VERY HEAVY ice-time for a patchwork defense.

He averaged 29:46 in the Stanley Cup Finals and 31:07 for the entire playoffs. He scored 21 points in 23 games, and was a +16 for the playoffs.

That is an awesome playoffs for Keith.

 

[JackSlater]

1. I still am not a fan of Neiuwendyk winning in 1999. 6 GWGs is impressive and can't discount 11 goals for mainly a defensive team but Hasek was the man during the playoffs. I know he missed a few games due to injury but his stats were incredible and Sabres wouldn't have even sniffed a finals appearance without him. A 93.9% save % and a 1.77 GAA, truly phenomenal, especially for that era (which wasn't fully the dead puck era yet)

Hasek was really good in the 1999 playoffs but he received strong support from his team that year. I'm thinking that even just a good performance from a goalie could have gotten Buffalo to the finals. Buffalo was a good defensive team in 1999, allowing the second fewest goals in the league and the fewest in the East. It was a middling offensive team, but through the first three rounds of the playoffs Buffalo was the best offensive team in the playoffs. Buffalo averaged 3.3 goals per game through the first three rounds, better than any other team in the playoffs, and was also very consistent - never scored fewer than 2 goals in a game. The team also scored early usually, averaging a first goal at around 13 minutes into the game and scoring first 11/15 games through three rounds.

This support largely dried up in the finals against a very strong Dallas team and predictably Buffalo lost, but 1999 wasn't a case of Hasek dragging his teammates kicking and screaming to the finals. Through three rounds Buffalo played really well as a team and quite possibly gave Hasek better support than any other team gave its goaltender. I still wouldn't be against Hasek getting the Conn Smythe over Nieuwendyk, but that's mainly because I don't like Nieuwendyk's case for the Conn Smythe a whole lot.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Hasek was really good in the 1999 playoffs but he received strong support from his team that year. I'm thinking that even just a good performance from a goalie could have gotten Buffalo to the finals. Buffalo was a good defensive team in 1999, allowing the second fewest goals in the league and the fewest in the East. It was a middling offensive team, but through the first three rounds of the playoffs Buffalo was the best offensive team in the playoffs. Buffalo averaged 3.3 goals per game through the first three rounds, better than any other team in the playoffs, and was also very consistent - never scored fewer than 2 goals in a game. The team also scored early usually, averaging a first goal at around 13 minutes into the game and scoring first 11/15 games through three rounds.

This support largely dried up in the finals against a very strong Dallas team and predictably Buffalo lost, but 1999 wasn't a case of Hasek dragging his teammates kicking and screaming to the finals. Through three rounds Buffalo played really well as a team and quite possibly gave Hasek better support than any other team gave its goaltender. I still wouldn't be against Hasek getting the Conn Smythe over Nieuwendyk, but that's mainly because I don't like Nieuwendyk's case for the Conn Smythe a whole lot.

That 99 Buffalo team doesn't get enough credit for how well they all played that spring. I think people just look at the names on the roster and assume Hasek carried them, but he didn't even play every game and they didn't miss a beat when he was out.

Edit: They actually went 1-1 with Roloson in net. Thought it was 2-0 for some reason.

If they win the Cup I'm sure he'd have been given the Smythe, and reasonably so, but I don't remember any feeling at all that a member of the losing team was going to win it that year. Nobody was a big time standout on either team from what I recall, just lots of guys playing well on teams that were getting contributions from everywhere in the lineup.

 

[goeb]

Has anyone else felt that sometimes Conn Smythes are given to a player who was maybe snubbed in a previous playoff?

For example, I think Niedermayer was the best player from start to finish during the 2003 Playoffs. Giguere win the Conn Smythe that year.

Then Niedermayer wins the Conn Smythe in 2007, when I felt he was actually only the 4th most valuable Duck those playoffs (behind Pronger, Giguere, and Pahlsson).

It seemed like the 2007 Conn Smythe was a "make up" for the 2003 snub.

I have felt this way with other players too.

I find that it isn't too uncommon for Smythe winners to be based on reputation at times. I actually thought Kessel had a very strong case for the Smythe in 2016 but everyone seemed dead set on Crosby. I think the issue was not only Kessel's reputation, but also that he had no OT/GWGs. Crosby is the captain and is a future HHOF, so naturally he was a safe choice for them.

Guentzel could've easily won it in 2017. 13 goals in 25 games with 5 GWGs is very impressive, but I just think Crosby's reputation overpowered Guentzel's chances.

If anything, I think the voters are very influenced by team Captains (which makes the choice of Ward in 2006 all the more puzzling).

In terms of Neidermayer specifically, I don't believe he should have won it in 2003, Giguere was the man of the playoffs and did some really incredible things that year during Anaheim's Cinderella run. I don't see how anyone could have denied him the Smythe during those playoffs.

 

[CupInSIX]

I find that it isn't too uncommon for Smythe winners to be based on reputation at times. I actually thought Kessel had a very strong case for the Smythe in 2016 but everyone seemed dead set on Crosby. I think the issue was not only Kessel's reputation, but also that he had no OT/GWGs. Crosby is the captain and is a future HHOF, so naturally he was a safe choice for them.

Guentzel could've easily won it in 2017. 13 goals in 25 games with 5 GWGs is very impressive, but I just think Crosby's reputation overpowered Guentzel's chances.

If anything, I think the voters are very influenced by team Captains (which makes the choice of Ward in 2006 all the more puzzling).

In terms of Neidermayer specifically, I don't believe he should have won it in 2003, Giguere was the man of the playoffs and did some really incredible things that year during Anaheim's Cinderella run. I don't see how anyone could have denied him the Smythe during those playoffs.

I thought Kessel should have won in 2016 as well.

 

[K Fleur]

I think Keith could have won the Smythe in every one of the Hawks runs. At the same time having Toews, Kane, and Keith all come away with one feels right.

 

[The Macho King]

I think Keith could have won the Smythe in every one of the Hawks runs. At the same time having Toews, Kane, and Keith all come away with one feels right.

I think he *should* have won in '10, but ya know. '13 I always felt Crawford should have won, but with Thomas and Quick winning the two previous, it felt like goalie fatigue.

 

[Voight]

I find that it isn't too uncommon for Smythe winners to be based on reputation at times. I actually thought Kessel had a very strong case for the Smythe in 2016 but everyone seemed dead set on Crosby. I think the issue was not only Kessel's reputation, but also that he had no OT/GWGs. Crosby is the captain and is a future HHOF, so naturally he was a safe choice for them.

Guentzel could've easily won it in 2017. 13 goals in 25 games with 5 GWGs is very impressive, but I just think Crosby's reputation overpowered Guentzel's chances.

If anything, I think the voters are very influenced by team Captains (which makes the choice of Ward in 2006 all the more puzzling).

In terms of Neidermayer specifically, I don't believe he should have won it in 2003, Giguere was the man of the playoffs and did some really incredible things that year during Anaheim's Cinderella run. I don't see how anyone could have denied him the Smythe during those playoffs.

Ducks lose in 4 to Detroit without Giggy in 2003. Definition of carrying a team.

I think Keith could have won the Smythe in every one of the Hawks runs. At the same time having Toews, Kane, and Keith all come away with one feels right.

As a Hawks fan I agree, even if he wasn't as dominant as he was in 2015, I think he still would have taken home the CS. As TMM said above, Crawford had a really good case but there was absolutely 0 chance a goalie was going to win it 3 years in a row, especially with Thomas/Quick having "better" runs.

 

[K Fleur]

I think he *should* have won in '10, but ya know. '13 I always felt Crawford should have won, but with Thomas and Quick winning the two previous, it felt like goalie fatigue.

I think if Toews come out of their pseudo dynasty without a Smythe we look back at it feeling like something is off.

I say that fully believing Toews is also the most overrated/over appreciated player of my lifetime. By hockey’s media atleast.

But then again simply Smythe counting doesn’t tell the story of just how amazing a playoff performer Keith was.

 

[c9777666]

Ducks lose in 4 to Detroit without Giggy in 2003. Definition of carrying a team.

ANA does not beat DET without Giguere.

NJ could have beaten the Bruins/Lightning in the first 2 rounds without Niedermayer

 

[Sentinel]

Or even 1998.

I personally think Lidstrom should have won in 1997. He did a number on Sakic, Forsberg, and the Legion of Doom line. He didn't score much, but he was defensively dominant.

Then Fedorov should have won in 1998, followed by Yzerman in 2002.

Everything about this post is... questionable, to say the least.

Fedorov was just as important in shutting down the LoD as Lidstrom. He lead the team in points, scored the series-winning goal against the Avs, and was all-around amazing.

In 98 Fedorov did lead the team in goals, but Yzerman was phenomenal.

In 02 Yzerman played on one leg. Fedorov carried him and his other leg.

 

[c9777666]

Three all time playoff performances that fall under the 'As great as they were, they had a teammate playing like a Hockey God' category:

Paul Coffey 1985

Mark Recchi 1991

Kevin Stevens 1991

 

[goeb]

How about Mike Richter in 94? Was Leetch truly a slam dunk choice that year?

I feel like Messier may have had a better argument than Richter. Leadership gets many votes for the Smythe, and tough to deny what Messier did in Game 6 against the Devils and also had a great Game 7 in the finals (including the GWG). However, what Leetch did was incredible, even more so in the finals with 5 goals in 7 games. I wouldn't have been disappointed if Messier won it though, he stepped up when his team needed him the most.