Players that should have Won the Conn Smythe?

Voight

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patrick kane in 2010. he was flat out SCREWED from that trophy after an AMAZING finals.

Toews outscored him by 1 point in the entire playoffs but if the point totals are close and you've made it that far, the SCF should take you home.

he should be a 2x winner

As a Hawks fan myself I had no issues with Toews winning it. He was great that year, as was Kane but Tazer winning wasn't exactly something out of left field. I wouldn't say Kane was screwed, yes he had a great finals but remember its PLAYOFF MVP not Finals MVP like in the NBA.

BTW if Kane wins in 2010 the Crawford certainly wins in 2013. He should have won it that year period but as MM above stated, there was goalie fatigue and pretty much 0 chance they were going to give it to a goalie 3 years in a row.
 

Pominville Knows

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Also the Smythe voting is done in the third period of an elimination game. If Nobody wins the cup, the voting is done again in the next game. This mean when Kane scored the ot gwg in game 6. The voting was done already, if the voting was done afterwards, I think good chance Kane would of won the Smythe.
Very possible.
At the same time you might actually want to avoid giving one moment unproportionate weight. In a vacuum, seeing Toews leading Kane by one point overall makes it look like he certainly could deserve it.
 

Voight

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Because the Smythe is for Playoff MVP, I think the losing team's guy makes more sense than people are willing to admit.

2016-Brent Burns, he stood out because as a defenseman and +11 he really was pound for pound ahead of any other guy on his team or in the playoffs. Crosby was quite possibly the worst Smythe recipient.

2013-Krejci had a good enough margin on the rest of the team but Rask would have been my #2. The Hawks were just a better team overall.

2006-Pronger was far and away the best skater those playoffs. Wasn't too impressed by Ward and frankly with the voting it would make sense he would split with his team more than Pronger.


As for keeping it with the winning team:

1999-Belfour, the 1.67 GAA is insane when you consider the teams he faced. Modano for skaters.

1996-Roy, it's easy to get caught up in Sakic clearly being the offensive leader on the team but fact is Patrick Roy was the reason they won it all. No question in my mind.

1981-Bossy, no Goring argument makes any sense really. I assume it was a lot of vote splitting that got Goring the nod but Bossy was sufficiently ahead of everyone.

Yea Pronger in 2006 was a missed opportunity. Ward winning the CS made for a better story/headline but Pronger that year was one of the few when a guy on the losing team is so damn good its hard not to give him the award.
 
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quoipourquoi

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So, Vernon deserved a Conn Smythe but Hasek didn't?

(Only in a post-truth world.)

I was the one defending Vernon, so I don’t know if this “post-truth” thing was directed at me...

I think everyone agrees that Dominik Hasek had a better playoff in 1999 than Mike Vernon had in 1997, but Mike Vernon winning 16 games and Dominik Hasek winning just 13 games likely plays a major factor, as does their competition.

Consider that Joe Nieuwendyk equaled a then-record 6 GWGs, while Ed Belfour had a .941 Stanley Cup Finals series, and Mike Modano produced 23 points in a tough draw (Hasek, Roy, Pronger). Those are three really solid options for the Stanley Cup champions that voters can turn to before the 13-win goaltender on the defeated team, even if in terms of individual performance we would say Hasek had the best of the four.

In 1997, who do the voters turn to? For one, Mike Vernon was on the winning team. If we want to look at Lindros, far and away the Conn Smythe favorite going into the Finals, he did not have a great Finals series.

Ultimately, there’s not a set level of performance where a player universally deserves a Conn Smythe. Logan Couture can score 30 points, but if his team is out in 6 games like Dominik Hasek’s was, the voters might take a 19-point forward with a minus-2.

It’s been 43 years since we’ve seen a losing player take the Conn Smythe in less than a 7 game Final and he still owns the record for goals in a playoff. The trend has kind of set-in where it’s that high of a bar, and players like Hasek and Couture end up with playoffs that are better than some Conn Smythe winners have had. Coupled with the fact that there were three really strong playoffs from members of the 1999 Dallas Stars, and it’s not all that surprising that Mike Vernon has a Conn Smythe and Dominik Hasek does not.

...unless we’re talking 1997 Vernon vs. 2002 Hasek, where both had a comparable level of Conn Smythe competition (no standout teammates; Arturs Irbe, like Lindros, is great but a hard sell), but statistically, I’d give the edge to 1997 Vernon (71.0 EvE versus 81.4).
 
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Voight

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Hasek was of course outstanding in the 99 playoffs but you have to be at a 2003 Gigure level as a goalie to get the award on a losing team. & have no good candidates on the winning side, like the Devils in 2003 (Niedermayer wouldn't of been a bad choice but we know how hard it can be for defensemen to get the award).

Dallas had too much star power (no pun intended) for Hasek to win the award.
 

The Panther

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I was the one defending Vernon, so I don’t know if this “post-truth” thing was directed at me...

I think everyone agrees that Dominik Hasek had a better playoff in 1999 than Mike Vernon had in 1997, but Mike Vernon winning 16 games and Dominik Hasek winning just 13 games likely plays a major factor, as does their competition.

Consider that Joe Nieuwendyk equaled a then-record 6 GWGs, while Ed Belfour had a .941 Stanley Cup Finals series, and Mike Modano produced 23 points in a tough draw (Hasek, Roy, Pronger). Those are three really solid options for the Stanley Cup champions that voters can turn to before the 13-win goaltender on the defeated team, even if in terms of individual performance we would say Hasek had the best of the four.

In 1997, who do the voters turn to? For one, Mike Vernon was on the winning team. If we want to look at Lindros, far and away the Conn Smythe favorite going into the Finals, he did not have a great Finals series.

Ultimately, there’s not a set level of performance where a player universally deserves a Conn Smythe. Logan Couture can score 30 points, but if his team is out in 6 games like Dominik Hasek’s was, the voters might take a 19-point forward with a minus-2.

It’s been 43 years since we’ve seen a losing player take the Conn Smythe in less than a 7 game Final and he still owns the record for goals in a playoff. The trend has kind of set-in where it’s that high of a bar, and players like Hasek and Couture end up with playoffs that are better than some Conn Smythe winners have had. Coupled with the fact that there were three really strong playoffs from members of the 1999 Dallas Stars, and it’s not all that surprising that Mike Vernon has a Conn Smythe and Dominik Hasek does not.

...unless we’re talking 1997 Vernon vs. 2002 Hasek, where both had a comparable level of Conn Smythe competition (no standout teammates; Arturs Irbe, like Lindros, is great but a hard sell), but statistically, I’d give the edge to 1997 Vernon (71.0 EvE versus 81.4).
Great post, and I agree with everything you said. I'll bet that if Buffalo had won game six in 1999, and then if they had even lost to Dallas in game seven, that Hasek would have won the Conn Smythe. Just getting to gave seven would have won it for him. But when you lose in six, voters tend not to go to anyone on the losing side.

Giguere in 2003... Hextall in 1987... And it's usually a goaltender, because it suits the "heroic-goaltender-drags-team-to-seventh-game-contention" narrative. But in Hasek's case, I would say that that team doesn't even get out of their division without him, and quite probably doesn't even qualify for the playoffs without him (they only made it in by about 2 points).

But, in general, the Smythe should go to a player on the winning team. Voters should certainly consider the winning side with priority. I understand that the playoffs are about all 4 rounds, but I personally think that the semi-Finals and especially the Finals (just as it was back in 1965 when the Conn Smythe started) should be priority-consideration for players' performances. Rounds one and two should have slightly lesser priority. At the very least, the player winning the Smythe should have performed very well in the Finals.

And that's why I personally disagree with Toews in 2010 and Crosby in 2016. Their Finals' results, statistically:
-- 2010 Toews: 0G + 3A = 3PTS (-5)
-- 2016 Crosby: 0G + 4A = 4PTS (0)

Toews in particular looks bad here. And neither guy was really lights-out in the third round either (though Toews at least led his team in scoring).

Maybe if the 2010 Final had gone one more game (i.e., to game seven), we'd have seen Danny Briere win that Smythe for the losing team. He came up trumps in the Finals for Philly. Briere in the Finals had less ice-time than Toews, outscored him 12 points to 3 (!), and went +5 to Toews' -5... and Toews won the Conn Smythe.

Here's Toews as the Smythe-winner was announced:
interested.gif


Just kidding, I really like Toews, but c'mon -- you gotta impress me more in the Finals if you deserve a Smythe!
 

daver

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Ultimately, there’s not a set level of performance where a player universally deserves a Conn Smythe. Logan Couture can score 30 points, but if his team is out in 6 games like Dominik Hasek’s was, the voters might take a 19-point forward with a minus-2.

I don't think Couture is in the same realm of other great playoff performances in a losing cause like Briere's for example. Pavelski was the odds on Smythe favourite coming into the final. Couture certainly was very good in the SCF but it was the failure of the Sharks #1 line to produce (ironically against Mr. Minus 2's line) was the reason the Sharks lost.
 

daver

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And that's why I personally disagree with Toews in 2010 and Crosby in 2016. Their Finals' results, statistically:
-- 2010 Toews: 0G + 3A = 3PTS (-5)
-- 2016 Crosby: 0G + 4A = 4PTS (0)

What Pen was clearly better, if at all better, than Crosby in the SCF? That the Sharks powerhouse #1 line couldn't generate offense due to Crosby's line dominating in puck possession along with Crosby stepping up in key moments (Game 1, OT winner, series winner and clincher) was a big factor in that series.
 

The Macho King

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What Pen was clearly better, if at all better, than Crosby in the SCF? That the Sharks powerhouse #1 line couldn't generate offense due to Crosby's line dominating in puck possession along with Crosby stepping up in key moments (Game 1, OT winner, series winner and clincher) was a big factor in that series.
Brian Dumolin was the most impressive Pen that postseason. He honestly is probably the most underrated Dman in the league. Doesn't put up points, but he has a spot on my shutdown pair anytime.
 

Giotrapani91

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I'm not sure who was 2nd in 93 for voting, and I know damphousse had the production, but I felt that kirk muller was the most important player after roy.
Idk who was the second Montreal canadien in voting, I read damphousse's stats in that playoff 11 goals 12 assist, 23 points 5 on the power play goals and 3 game winners, muller had 10 goals 3 power play goals & 3 game winners & 7 assists.
 

Henkka

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I was the one defending Vernon, so I don’t know if this “post-truth” thing was directed at me...

I think everyone agrees that Dominik Hasek had a better playoff in 1999 than Mike Vernon had in 1997, but Mike Vernon winning 16 games and Dominik Hasek winning just 13 games likely plays a major factor, as does their competition.

In 1997, who do the voters turn to? For one, Mike Vernon was on the winning team. If we want to look at Lindros, far and away the Conn Smythe favorite going into the Finals, he did not have a great Finals series.

...unless we’re talking 1997 Vernon vs. 2002 Hasek, where both had a comparable level of Conn Smythe competition (no standout teammates; Arturs Irbe, like Lindros, is great but a hard sell), but statistically, I’d give the edge to 1997 Vernon (71.0 EvE versus 81.4).

Should have been Fedorov at 1997. Most points (20) from DET and most GWG from any players (4). They were low-scoring team thanks to these Selke -level guys.

Too bad NHL was then too much against Russians.
 

quoipourquoi

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Should have been Fedorov at 1997. Most points (20) from DET and most GWG from any players (4). They were low-scoring team thanks to these Selke -level guys.

Too bad NHL was then too much against Russians.

He was coming off of two Selkes, a Hart, and another top-5 Hart finish, so the voters weren’t exactly against him. That he had a worse playoff in 1997 than he did in 1995 (and maybe 1996) may have worked against him however.

Also the whole Mike Vernon having a 1.76/.927 thing. Can’t stress that one enough. Especially that early into the DPE when it was very much a standout number.
 

Florbalista

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In 1997, who do the voters turn to?

The Nike Russian.

EDIT: Now I see somebody mentioned him already. I'm not sure he had a worse playoff than in those cited years. He had a worse first round. But a better final (than he did in 95). His quarterfinal shark carnage (11 points in 4 games) kinda skews the overall impression as far as 95 goes. And then his production went off the cliff against the Blackhawks in the semis.

In 97, his form was getting better each round, and he played his best hockey in the final. Maybe he lacked a couple of points on paper to make it look more justifiable, but under a bit of scrutiny, it was a pretty good and Smythe-deserving run. Not that I have much against Vernon. But Fedorov would have been a worthy winner too.
 
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Giotrapani91

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Ik this is kind of an obscure player that got snubbed but coty stillman in 2006. Him staal, & brindamour.
 

Giotrapani91

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2007 I would’ve rather seen teemu selanne lift the conn smythe over Scotty niedermayer, Scotty niedermayer’s brother Rob has a better argument, even moen, pahlsson, & Andy McDonald have better arguments. And pronger I would’ve given it to him with the suspension.
 

vadim sharifijanov

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potvin, fedorov, pronger, and doughty are the guys that imo absolutely deserved at least one smythe but got zero.

81, 97, 06, and 14 are the obvious years for each guy because he was demonstrably better than the winner, but they each also had other years with equally good arguments.
 
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Voight

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potvin, fedorov, pronger, and doughty are the guys that imo absolutely deserved at least one smythe but got zero.

81, 97, 06, and 14 are the obvious years for each guy because he was demonstrably better than the winner, but they each also had other years with equally good arguments.

Doughty was robbed in 2014. Not that Williams was a bad pick, but I feel like they were giving him some sort of lifetime achievement award for being good in the playoffs / being known as Mr Game 7. Doughty was outstanding that spring.
 
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JackSlater

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Doughty was robbed in 2014. Not that Williams was a bad pick, but I feel like they were giving him some sort of lifetime achievement award for being good in the playoffs / being known as Mr Game 7. Doughty was outstanding that spring.

I'm sure that writing about Williams, an underdog with the game 7 novelty, was a lot more enjoyable for the voters to write about than Doughty's game to game excellence and how he was the team's most important player. Shouldn't matter but it is the Conn Smythe.
 

sr edler

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Briere in the Finals had less ice-time than Toews, outscored him 12 points to 3 (!), and went +5 to Toews' -5... and Toews won the Conn Smythe.

Briere in 2010 was akin to Krejci in 2011 (or vice versa if we're going by time linear), though Krejci was probably better defensively than Briere. Briere was always suspect on D. For the longest time I didn't even know or understand that he was a center.

Mike Richards handled those duties in 2010, hence Briere with less ice-time. Less ice-time should hardly be a trump card here because I figure some of that extra ice-time (between Toews/Briere) is on the kill where you're not supposed to run-and-gun anyways.

You think Krejci should have won the Smythe in 2011? Even if we remove the cult following around Tim Thomas' run, is Krejci still your pick over Chara or Bergeron or Greg Campbell's dad?

Philly in 2010 was a bit more depthy on C with Richards, Briere, Giroux. If Briere was matched straight up the whole series against Toews no ways he scores 12 points.
 
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Voight

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Maybe if the 2010 Final had gone one more game (i.e., to game seven), we'd have seen Danny Briere win that Smythe for the losing team. He came up trumps in the Finals for Philly. Briere in the Finals had less ice-time than Toews, outscored him 12 points to 3 (!), and went +5 to Toews' -5... and Toews won the Conn Smythe.

Unless he scored 10 points in that game, there is 0 chance he would have won the CS. Leach is the only losing forward to ever win it in 50+ years and he only won it because he broke the goals record. (he's still an iffy pick IMO). There is no reason why they would award it to Briere. What an awful take.
 

danincanada

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2007 I would’ve rather seen teemu selanne lift the conn smythe over Scotty niedermayer, Scotty niedermayer’s brother Rob has a better argument, even moen, pahlsson, & Andy McDonald have better arguments. And pronger I would’ve given it to him with the suspension.

I personally think Niedermayer deserved his Conn Smythe and I never really liked the guy. He scored some huge goals and the fact is Pronger was undiscipled and Niedermayer was a big reason they held it together while he was suspended. He wore the C and looked like the leader out there to me and no one else stood out more overall.
 

danincanada

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He was coming off of two Selkes, a Hart, and another top-5 Hart finish, so the voters weren’t exactly against him. That he had a worse playoff in 1997 than he did in 1995 (and maybe 1996) may have worked against him however.

Also the whole Mike Vernon having a 1.76/.927 thing. Can’t stress that one enough. Especially that early into the DPE when it was very much a standout number.

Meh, Vernon had a small workload and I can't think of a game he stole and rarely had to keep them in games. The team in front of him dominated the puck most games so it was a lazy choice in my opinion. Fedorov should have won it. Going back and watching games the commentators brought up Lidstrom's name in the finals as well because he really dominated defensively and in transition. If Yzerman had more points it would have went to him simply for sentimental reasons. That's how these types of awards are deal with at times unfortunately.
 
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The Panther

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Unless he scored 10 points in that game, there is 0 chance he would have won the CS. Leach is the only losing forward to ever win it in 50+ years and he only won it because he broke the goals record. (he's still an iffy pick IMO). There is no reason why they would award it to Briere. What an awful take.
Boy, do I ever feel bad for posting my opinion. You really put me in my place.
 

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