Players that should have Won the Conn Smythe?

[Michael Farkas]

Bleh, so it was pre-determined that Ovechkin was gonna win regardless if the Caps won...that's too bad, but I do get it. Crosby got a charity toss in '16 for being the 2nd best player in the playoffs, Ovechkin got the same deal here...I'll sleep well at night, but I don't really like it...

 

[sr edler]

Kuznetsov is the smoothest skater and one of the best puck carriers/zone enterers in the league. The notion that he needed Ovi's physicality to open up space for him is really stretching it.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Yeah, I mean, Ovechkin isn't a fullback...he wasn't blocking for Kuznetsov...Ovy's hits have always been finishing a defenseman on the forecheck after they rim the puck around...

It's Kuzy's puck carrying that opened up things for Ovechkin. Backstrom, not as strong of a skater, could not carry for Ovechkin in the past which led to Ovechkin barreling down the left wing and trying one of two moves depending on the handedness and positioning of the d-man. That resulted in points for Ovechkin, but accomplished nothing from a team perspective...it was just Ovechkin doing power winger things and some other players were also on the ice with him...

With Kuznetsov, you have a multi-line puck carrier...and then if you have to dump it in, you have Ovechkin and more (physically) threatening, Wilson on the other side...Kuznetsov was the difference, getting him to sack up (and put up the second most points in a playoff in the last 20 years) is one of the main factors in them getting through this thing...

 

[FerrisRox]

There is more to life than offensive stats. If you watched the games, there is no question WHO was the leader of this team and WHO contributed the most.

I agree there was no question who contributed the most... but I think the answer is Kuznetsov. I think their best player this playoff and the player who contributed the most to their Stanley Cup Championship was Kuznetsov. That doesn't take anything away from Ovechkin, who had an excellent playoff, but there were very, very few games in this playoff run where he outplayed Kuznetsov.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Well, to be fair, they're on the same team, it's not their job to outplay each other. While that may seem obvious, there is some relevance to the discussion at hand. I think in this playoff Ovechkin did what he is asked to do, i.e. his job, at a level that is exceptional by any standard, current day or historical. While Kuznetsov has a claim here given his numbers, I think Ovechkin did, too. And yes he ultimately won it on lifetime achievement, but it's not a *travesty* he did.

 

[Evincar]

I probably would have leaned towards Kuznetsov but I have no problem with Ovechkin winning it. This shouldn't fall into the category of questionable CS wins like Crosby (2016), Justin Williams, Niedermayer and Cam Ward.

 

[quoipourquoi]

I probably would have leaned towards Kuznetsov but I have no problem with Ovechkin winning it. This shouldn't fall into the category of questionable CS wins like Crosby (2016), Justin Williams, Niedermayer and Cam Ward.

Why is Justin Williams in this group and not a direct comparable to Alex Ovechkin - someone with a great playoff but with teammates who also had great playoffs?

 

[Evincar]

Why is Justin Williams in this group and not a direct comparable to Alex Ovechkin - someone with a great playoff but with teammates who also had great playoffs?

If anything Williams compares better to Oshie or Backstrom.

I wasnt a fan of the Williams selection because I dont see how he was more valuable than Kopitar or Doughty imo. Williams had the same impact as Gaborik and Carter.

 

[ChiefWiggum]

Just recently,

Crawford in 2013
Kessel in 2016

Ovi deserved it for sure but i think Kuznetsov was the team's MVP on that run

 

[Giotrapani91]

I remember going in to game 7 in 06 thinking that the Smythe was basically Brind'Amours unless Ward stole the show in that game (he did) or the Oilers won in which case it would have been Pronger. And even until that huge save in the 3rd when the game was 2-1, I still thought Brind'Amour was going to win it that year.

Brindy did everything a skater could do for the Canes throughout the playoffs, and basically willed the team to a win in the Buffalo series. He was basically shutting down whatever line he was put up against while still being able to put up clutch goals throughout the playoffs. The only thing I can really think of off the top of my head is that Ward won in large part due to stepping in to the Montreal series and just simply taking over. And he was undoubtedly excellent in that series. But even still, Brind'Amour was absolutely the straw that stirred the drink for the Canes even in that series, in fact the team was looking destined to go down 3-0 until Brindys goal in game 3. It wasn't a floodgates opening moment, but that's the point you could absolutely feel that the tide had turned and that there was no way the Canes were losing that series.

Cory stillman has a good arguement though as well he was second on that team in points.

 

[Giotrapani91]

I agree, but historically there needs to be no one on the other side (winning side) that stood out. 2006 had Staal, BrindAmour and Ward that all stood out. Leach had 19 goals which still hasn't been surpassed and in 1976 no Hab stood out much either. Hard to say really, but Pronger gets his due. I don't think even Keith had as good of a postseason in 2015.

Alfredsson in 2007 was a good example of someone getting on the losing side because no Duck stood out.

Teemu selanne was pretty good in the Detroit series.

 

[Giotrapani91]

i always felt like '98 was a three-way race and they gave it to yzerman because when in doubt you give it to the respected veteran captain if he hasn't already won one. similar to crosby over letang and kessel a couple years ago; or niedermayer over giguere, pronger, and pahlsson.

the case for lidstrom, iirc, is that he took on a lot more responsibility to make up for the loss of konstantinov.

1998 it could've gone to 5 different players osgood, holmstrom, lidstrom, yzerman who won it, & fedorov.

 

[Big Phil]

Just recently,

Crawford in 2013
Kessel in 2016

Ovi deserved it for sure but i think Kuznetsov was the team's MVP on that run

I always love predicting the Conn Smythe just before the trophy comes out. I do it every year and I've been wrong before (Crawford over Kane in 2013) (Yzerman over Lidstrom in 2002) but in all honesty with the Caps last year I had Ovechkin as the front runner followed by Holtby. Not that Kuznetsov didn't contribute because he obviously did with 32 points, but I always felt he was a lot like, say Eric Staal in 2006, led the team in playoff points but there were others who you noticed more.

Teemu selanne was pretty good in the Detroit series.

2007 Ducks remind me a lot of the 2016 Pens. Literally 5 different players on the Ducks could have won it. Getzlaf, Perry, Selanne, Pronger and Giguere. McDonald had 10 goals as well. Then it goes to the guy I wasn't even thinking about - Niedermayer. All of them were fine picks but none stood out and Alfredsson sort of stood out but was on the losing side. I think you have to be even better on the losing side to win. 2007 was a weird year.

 

[Giotrapani91]

I always love predicting the Conn Smythe just before the trophy comes out. I do it every year and I've been wrong before (Crawford over Kane in 2013) (Yzerman over Lidstrom in 2002) but in all honesty with the Caps last year I had Ovechkin as the front runner followed by Holtby. Not that Kuznetsov didn't contribute because he obviously did with 32 points, but I always felt he was a lot like, say Eric Staal in 2006, led the team in playoff points but there were others who you noticed more.



2007 Ducks remind me a lot of the 2016 Pens. Literally 5 different players on the Ducks could have won it. Getzlaf, Perry, Selanne, Pronger and Giguere. McDonald had 10 goals as well. Then it goes to the guy I wasn't even thinking about - Niedermayer. All of them were fine picks but none stood out and Alfredsson sort of stood out but was on the losing side. I think you have to be even better on the losing side to win. 2007 was a weird year.

Yeah imo I would've went with Scott niedermayer's brother before him. Rob niedermayer had 5 goals 5 assists in the playoffs. Scott had 3 goals 8 assists 11 points. I get the fact he was the captain but that shouldn't be the reason he gets it.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Pahlsson is the best answer from the 2007 Ducks.

 

[streitz]

I probably disagree with half the Conn Smythe picks they've made.

Probably disagree with half the Selkes and Hart, Norris trophies as well.


That's the problem with awards decided by mostly hack writers. A lot of subjectivity and lack of impartiality.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I agree there was no question who contributed the most... but I think the answer is Kuznetsov. I think their best player this playoff and the player who contributed the most to their Stanley Cup Championship was Kuznetsov. That doesn't take anything away from Ovechkin, who had an excellent playoff, but there were very, very few games in this playoff run where he outplayed Kuznetsov.

I agree that Kuznetsov contributed more than Ovechkin, but did he contribute more than John Carlson?

 

[Jim MacDonald]

I hopped right to the end of the thread, but I remember thinking in 2017 Matt Murray should've won the Conn Smythe instead of Crosby. I can't recall Crosby's playoff numbers that year.....but remember thinking Murray should've gotten it and thinking it was bad idea by the coach to completely switch from Fleury to Murray after Ottawa shelled Fleury the one game....Was proven wrong!

 

[Michael Farkas]

No thanks. Murray won one full series in that playoff. Not saying he wasn't good, but he also wasn't on the radar...rightfully so. In fact, Fleury was a strong Smythe consideration till the midpoint of the Wales Conference Final...

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I agree that Kuznetsov contributed more than Ovechkin, but did he contribute more than John Carlson?

i thought holtby was their most important guy, personally. any time there is strong support for four different guys, i don't think you can argue that one of the four won it.

 

[Big Phil]

Pahlsson is the best answer from the 2007 Ducks.

That was another good choice too. Maybe on the lower end of the other ones, but was a possibility at the time too. That's about 6-7 Ducks that you can argue could have won it. Very balanced team.

I hopped right to the end of the thread, but I remember thinking in 2017 Matt Murray should've won the Conn Smythe instead of Crosby. I can't recall Crosby's playoff numbers that year.....but remember thinking Murray should've gotten it and thinking it was bad idea by the coach to completely switch from Fleury to Murray after Ottawa shelled Fleury the one game....Was proven wrong!

Crosby in 2016 had a Conn Smythe that could have gone to either one of Letang, Murray or Kessel and it wouldn't have been wrong either. In 2017 he took it to another level and he was the clear choice I thought. He really took the team on his back especially in the final. Game 5 that was Crosby's game where he said "The heck with this, we're blowing them out, follow me guys!" 6-0 was the final of that game and it was clear to me that was the dagger.

People forget just how important Fleury was in the first two rounds though too. He just took things over against Washington. I think he tends to play better the more shots he gets. I guess I don't blame them for going back to Murray. Fleury would have taken it the whole way if he didn't have that mediocre effort against Ottawa in Game 1 in the semis.

 

[The Panther]

I agree that Crosby deserved the 2017 Conn Smythe.

But here's my problem with Crosby's 2016 Conn Smythe (which, as we know, he won by the narrowest of margins)...

There are certain years where one player, on the winning team, clearly stands out (e.g., 1986, 1991, etc). There are other years -- much more rare -- where one guy on the losing team stands out (e.g., 2003). Neither of those applied to 2016.

So, in any year (like 2016) when the voting is going to be split between three or four or five players, the priority taken should be like this:
-- Was there one player only on the losing team who stood way out? If yes, he should probably win the Conn Smythe (e.g., Hextall in 1987 probably deserved it more than Gretzky, Messier, Anderson, Kurri, or Fuhr)

However, that also didn't apply in 2016, so then you go to the next priority:
-- Of the three or whatever players on the winning team that must split votes, who performed the best in the Finals?
And then there's your Conn Smythe winner.

So, of the Pens' two or three top players in the 2016 Finals, did Crosby perform the best? I am gonna say 'no'.

But it's an imperfect science.

 

[daver]

So, of the Pens' two or three top players in the 2016 Finals, did Crosby perform the best? I am gonna say 'no'.

But it's an imperfect science.

Isn't accepted that he did perform the best in the finals, particularly vs. Kessel, his main rival for the Smythe? The fact the Sharks powerful #1 line was literally shutdown for the series was a major factor for the Pens win. In Game #1 of that series Crosby was brilliant even though he had 1 assist. He stepped up in the most important moments of that series with an OT assist and on the Cup clinching goal.

Kuz over OV is a much more reasonable argument, IMO. Not that this makes Crosby's 2016 performance better than OV's, Crosby's 2009, and even his 2008 performances could be rated above both of them.

 

[streitz]

That was another good choice too. Maybe on the lower end of the other ones, but was a possibility at the time too. That's about 6-7 Ducks that you can argue could have won it. Very balanced team. Crosby in 2016 had a Conn Smythe that could have gone to either one of Letang, Murray or Kessel and it wouldn't have been wrong either. In 2017 he took it to another level and he was the clear choice I thought. He really took the team on his back especially in the final. Game 5 that was Crosby's game where he said "The heck with this, we're blowing them out, follow me guys!" 6-0 was the final of that game and it was clear to me that was the dagger. People forget just how important Fleury was in the first two rounds though too. He just took things over against Washington. I think he tends to play better the more shots he gets. I guess I don't blame them for going back to Murray. Fleury would have taken it the whole way if he didn't have that mediocre effort against Ottawa in Game 1 in the semis. If he didn't get suspended 2007 was probably Pronger's. Edit- to any mod. I have no idea where these squares came from or how to delete them.

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[blood gin]

Are there ever players in a playoff year that you think really deserved to win the conn smyth trophy but didnt? In 2003 when Marty Brodeur didnt win i was scratching my head.

I thought that was Niedermayers Smythe

Giguere was just a pile of equipment stacked in front of the net. That was really a travesty they let him gear up to that extent. Some saves he didn't even more. He didn't even know where the puck was it just hit him