Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - If the dog days had dog days

[Riptide]

Yeah, can't really argue with that.

That said - Rutherford has been active in terms of trading expiring assets recently. Wouldn't surprise if he went there again. I'm not saying I want this scenario as much as I see it coming.

I just struggle to see a deal that makes our team better in the short term (or has the potential to do so) that another team would do. Usually top 4 RD are in demand. Arizona might be such a place with Demers and Gogo and an overall expensive blueline in general... I'm just not sure how realistic that is as it would really depend on them having faith that one of their youngsters was ready to step up for the 20/21 season and I just don't know enough about them to judge how realistic that would be. But looking at the number of D they have in the AHL, that might be an option.

Move Schultz (+?) and get Gogo or Demers back. Would still need to move JJ, but we'd be getting someone signed past next season at a manageable cap hit.

 

[Riptide]

Eeyikes. Talk about a recipe for disaster.

If we're dealing Schultz, Forward Mountain better yield us a better middle-pairing RD to replace him.

I'll never understand the mentality of a contending team trading a quality impending UFA to recoup some value when they're regularly using assets to acquire impending UFAs at the deadline to bolster playoff runs.

Depends on what they're being traded for. Perron for Hagelin seemed to work out rather well for us. I think the key is trading said player for another established player. Moving them for futures or young guys with "potential" who are not ready to replace the out going player is a non-starter for me, and fortunately likely for Rutherford as well based on what we've seen of him so far.

And yet that's the exact role we saw out of him last season - and he excelled in it. I think it was mostly Pets holding him up, but if they can work together that well, then who cares? People need to get past their personal distaste for him because he doesn't "fit the Daley" mold. I don't care what his name is, how big/small he is, or how ugly he looks or even how good/bad he skates. I only care if he can get the job done at a high level, and Gudbranson in the 20 games we saw out of him was able to do that in spades - and without the benefit of being able to hide behind Letang down in the depth chart.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Depends on what they're being traded for. Perron for Hagelin seemed to work out rather well for us. I think the key is trading said player for another established player. Moving them for futures or young guys with "potential" who are not ready to replace the out going player is a non-starter for me, and fortunately likely for Rutherford as well based on what we've seen of him so far.

One can argue that Hagelin was a comparably-regarded player (Hags weighted toward 2-way play, Perron offense) who ended up being a better fit for what we needed, and signed for more years. If a deal like that's on the table for Schultz, I'll be the last one to criticize it.

But the player has to be contributing at least comparably to Schultz now. Like you say, it can't be for someone whose impact won't be felt for a year or two.

And yet that's the exact role we saw out of him last season - and he excelled in it. I think it was mostly Pets holding him up, but if they can work together that well, then who cares? People need to get past their personal distaste for him because he doesn't "fit the Daley" mold. I don't care what his name is, how big/small he is, or how ugly he looks or even how good/bad he skates. I only care if he can get the job done at a high level, and Gudbranson in the 20 games we saw out of him was able to do that in spades - and without the benefit of being able to hide behind Letang down in the depth chart.

Gudbranson struggled a LOT for a LONG time before coming here (possession and production-wise), and 20 games plus isn't nearly enough of a sample size to convince me to hand the keys to the 2nd pair over to him. That's without even considering how he might perform if his babysitter gets hurt, something that shouldn't be dismissed especially since Pettersson's a slight guy and we're planning on upping his minutes this year.

 

[vodeni]

Agreed.



Eeyikes. Talk about a recipe for disaster.

If we're dealing Schultz, Forward Mountain better yield us a better middle-pairing RD to replace him.

I'll never understand the mentality of a contending team trading a quality impending UFA to recoup some value when they're regularly using assets to acquire impending UFAs at the deadline to bolster playoff runs.

does not make sense, does it? unless you think you can do better filipping a few players...

 

[Ryder71]

The 15-16 team's second most skilful winger was Sheary. The third most skilful winger was Kunitz or Rust.

This team's second most skilful winger is one of Guentzel and Galchenyuk. The third most skilful winger would be one of Simon, Kahun or McCann. Which means Rust is only in the running for sixth.

As such, I don't get how this team is getting weaker skill wise. Yeah, losing Kessel isn't great, but that shouldn't offset the general improvement elsewhere.

On paper we have better depth, I'm not sure however that we have better talent. I believe we won't find that out for a while. We also can't be sure how the newcomers may or may not assimilate. That's a very important variable to consider. I'm cautiously optimistic and do like a lot of what we have done upfront. But there are undoubtedly a lot of questions going into the season. At least from my perspective.

 

[WayneSid9987]

He's going to have to have one hell of a camp to force Reese or Simon out of a spot. Or when he eventually gets a call up for injuries. More likely he spends most of the season in WBS and is battling for time in 20/21 when we have another cap crunch as MM, McCann, Kahun, Simon, Schultz and Gally need new contracts (or replacements that we can afford). It's going to be then that guys like him will be our saving grace. This is what we've been *****ing about for years (having cheap internal replacements). Now it'll just be a matter of moving on from guys at the right time and using FA to find guys that can't/don't do what our prospects can/do do. Most likely this will be focused on the blueline - depending on what happens with Schultz.

Just believe he'll make such an impression that JR will make room for the dude at some point during the season...was more what i meant.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Just believe he'll make such an impression that JR will make room for the dude at some point during the season...was more what i meant.

It'll be interesting to see how his scoring translates to the AHL. If he's vying for the team scoring lead, I could see an NHL call-up tie going to Bjorkqvist based on his pro build, all-around play, and leadership.

But as a fairly low scorer in college, I think the main question's whether he can produce that well this year. A lot of his competition already has the benefit of a season of experience in WBS, and there's a pretty deep field coming in this year too.

 

[Peat]

On paper we have better depth, I'm not sure however that we have better talent. I believe we won't find that out for a while. We also can't be sure how the newcomers may or may not assimilate. That's a very important variable to consider. I'm cautiously optimistic and do like a lot of what we have done upfront. But there are undoubtedly a lot of questions going into the season. At least from my perspective.

Talent? Well, we'll see. The assimilation point is a good one.

But in terms of sheer raw skill, in terms of handsiness and the ability to thread passes and blast shots... I think this group has that one convincingly beat. I don't know whether that'll make them better for us in terms of winning mind.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Gudbransson is a disaster in waiting...He can only played sheltered third pair minutes

What makes you think that?

Because he was only ever god awful for 1 team in his whole career, a team that actually kept Derrick Pouliot as a f***ing regular, no less?

He was solid in Florida and has done well in Pittsburgh, he actually fits in better into the Eastern Conference style of play than the horrific whatever the hell the Canucks think they're doing on D.

Were people obtusely blind to everything last season?

 

[Riptide]

Gudbransson is a disaster in waiting...He can only played sheltered third pair minutes

He's shown in his time here that the 2nd part of what you said is very false. As for the first part, while there's certainly some risk, given how easy he'd be to move I'm not all that worried about it. People don't have to like him, but don't kid yourself about how desirable someone like him is. So if JR decides he doesn't want him, he could move him quickly and easily.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

There's quite the lull in everything considering how many people need to be signed league wide.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

He's shown in his time here that the 2nd part of what you said is very false. As for the first part, while there's certainly some risk, given how easy he'd be to move I'm not all that worried about it. People don't have to like him, but don't kid yourself about how desirable someone like him is. So if JR decides he doesn't want him, he could move him quickly and easily.

I'm not going to call him a "disaster" but I'm cautious about relying upon him based on a mere 20 games with us.

Remember how good Olek was initially? Remember Hunwick was decent too? We started putting their names in pen around here as if they are some sort of mainstay.

I just need to see more of his game. But if you asked me to buy or sell on his potential here, I'd buy.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the problem with Gudbranson is that people only look at his performance in Vancouver and act like that's how he has been his entire career, while he was a perfectly fine young bottom pair D. I think the expectation for him is that he'll revert back to that level or slightly better, so probably around a #5D or a fringe #4/5 D. He's still overpaid for that, but I don't think there's much of a risk of Gudbranson reverting back to Vancouver form.

If Riikola and Pettersson were more established, I think your defense would be well set with Pettersson-Schultz and Riikola-Gudbranson as your bottom-2 pairs. Sure, there are some question marks, but you're not going into next year with a terrible defense. The issue is that Riikola and Pettersson aren't more established, and that doesn't touch on the red flags with Gudbranson or Schultz.

 

[SherogoesHAM]

I've got an insider tip that Jack will be still on the team this year. Hopefully anything can still happen though.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I've got an insider tip that Jack will be still on the team this year. Hopefully anything can still happen though.

You mean WBS?

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I've got an insider tip that Jack will be still on the team this year. Hopefully anything can still happen though.

Now THAT makes me hold onto my butt

 

[ColePens]

I think we found out this summer that JJ is not movable w/o significant pieces going back with him. Or crap salary coming back.

 

[Andy99]

I've got an insider tip that Jack will be still on the team this year. Hopefully anything can still happen though.

Not surprising with what it would cost to trade him with four years left on his contract...people here constantly overrate how easy it is to trade players, particularly the bad and mediocre ones and the overpaid...

still hopeful they'll wake up to waiving him for additional cap space

 

[Empoleon8771]

The problem isn't trading Johnson, the problem is that the Penguins want to trade Johnson, not take any salary back and not add anything of significance on top of him to move him. In terms of purely "moving" Johnson, you can 100% move him. I absolutely guarantee you can trade him right now. However, "moving him" and "moving him without taking salary back or adding something of significance" are extremely different things.

How many people expected that the Penguins would be able to move Johnson without taking money back or adding something significant? I honestly don't remember anyone who acted like that was anything but a long shot. I thought the best case scenario was something like Johnson and a 2nd or 3rd for Daley, and I feel like that was one of the more optimistic ideas thrown out here.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

The problem isn't trading Johnson, the problem is that the Penguins want to trade Johnson, not take any salary back and not add anything of significance on top of him to move him. In terms of purely "moving" Johnson, you can 100% move him. I absolutely guarantee you can trade him right now. However, "moving him" and "moving him without taking salary back or adding something of significance" are extremely different things.

How many people expected that the Penguins would be able to move Johnson without taking money back or adding something significant? I honestly don't remember anyone who acted like that was anything but a long shot. I thought the best case scenario was something like Johnson and a 2nd or 3rd for Daley, and I feel like that was one of the more optimistic ideas thrown out here.

True and the other thing confounding is that there a bunch of teams that are at the cap max, so they can't take on JJ's salary.

Methinks those teams that can absorb JJ's contract are holding out we'll thrown in Rust for our troubles

 

[Andy99]

The problem isn't trading Johnson, the problem is that the Penguins want to trade Johnson, not take any salary back and not add anything of significance on top of him to move him. In terms of purely "moving" Johnson, you can 100% move him. I absolutely guarantee you can trade him right now. However, "moving him" and "moving him without taking salary back or adding something of significance" are extremely different things.

How many people expected that the Penguins would be able to move Johnson without taking money back or adding something significant? I honestly don't remember anyone who acted like that was anything but a long shot. I thought the best case scenario was something like Johnson and a 2nd or 3rd for Daley, and I feel like that was one of the more optimistic ideas thrown out here.

Unfortunately we’re up against the cap, as are many other teams,so taking salary back isn’t option for us and many trading partners...JR doesn’t think it’s worth it to trade probably a first or some significant asset to get rid of him, and he’s right...it’s a buyers market rn and teams are probably asking a lot...only option rn is probably to hold onto him

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

True and the other thing confounding is that there a bunch of teams that are at the cap max, so they can't take on JJ's salary.

Methinks those teams that can absorb JJ's contract are holding out we'll thrown in Rust for our troubles

I think teams probably want a 1st for the privilege of taking JJ on. If it were as easy as moving Rust and JJ together, it'd probably have already been done IMO.

Rust's a good piece, but if a team's taking them both on they're paying 6.75 mil for Rust and a below replacement level defenseman. That doesn't seem very appealing.

 

[66-30-33]

I think we found out this summer that JJ is not movable w/o significant pieces going back with him. Or crap salary coming back.

Should have just bought him out with a 1M dead cap space.

 

[Empoleon8771]

True and the other thing confounding is that there a bunch of teams that are at the cap max, so they can't take on JJ's salary.

Methinks those teams that can absorb JJ's contract are holding out we'll thrown in Rust for our troubles

I don't think this is the case, I just think JR wants to move JJ without adding any salary and anyone who would be willing to trade for JJ will only trade their crappy contract for him. It's why I'd rather see JJ swapped for another crappy contract and then have Rust traded for futures in a separate deal.

Based on the Zaitsev for Ceci deal, I think you can do something like Johnson and a sweetener for a short term bad contract.

 

[Andy99]

I wouldn’t have bought him out with four years remaining...this is what happens when you give too much term to depth players...cough cough...I hate it...three options only: play him and hope he improves, scratch him, and waive him...I don’t see option two happening since it doesn’t make sense...he’s either playing (unfortunate given his historically bad analytics) or he’s being waived...I like the latter just because of our cap issues and we’ll be tight signing Petts...my preference is not to be forced to give up Rust or Bjug atm because of that terrible signing...I’d rather send some people down and sign Petts for cheap this year and have the flexibility to move depth forwards or D, including him, depending on how we’re playing as the season goes on...