Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - If the dog days had dog days

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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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I still think they send JJ to WBS. No reason for me to think this other than it gives them cap room to sign MP (if/when they send ZT to WBS too). It'd be a one year, cheaper deal, but it'd work.
MP and his camp wanted the deal done so he can get his work visa and train in Pittsburgh. At the rate JR is going, they might as well just trade him and make this full circle of idiocy when JJ is still a regular for us.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
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This opinion will probably be about as popular as "Bambi's mum had it coming", but the idea of Johnson having at least a moderate turnaround isn't that far fetched. Just looking at his stats, his relative possession stats were about the worst they've been since CBJ, and his individual production's never been worse. Maybe he just aged out of being quite bad to eldritch affront to humanity's sanity, but if he didn't, then he's definitely capable of being better (and so's the team around him).

The big question is whether he can turn it around enough to actually be worthwhile.

Is it crazy that I think whether or not Johnson plays will basically determine whether we're contending for first in the division or struggling for a wild card spot.

Maybe yeah given that we were equally close to both with him there last season.
 
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BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
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This opinion will probably be about as popular as "Bambi's mum had it coming", but the idea of Johnson having at least a moderate turnaround isn't that far fetched. Just looking at his stats, his relative possession stats were about the worst they've been since CBJ, and his individual production's never been worse. Maybe he just aged out of being quite bad to eldritch affront to humanity's sanity, but if he didn't, then he's definitely capable of being better (and so's the team around him).

The big question is whether he can turn it around enough to actually be worthwhile.

The "turnaround guys" cited from the Penguins' recent past are usually Martin and Gonchar.

It's easy to see how they were capable of that and why Johnson is almost certainty not.

If they shelter him heavily, keep his minutes low, micromanage his deployment, everything breaks right injury-wise (loooooooollllll) and Sullivan and his staff and resist the temptation to overplay him I could see him maybe being, well... just there. Do no harm and all that. Johnson does not have the puck skills, mobility, or hockey IQ to rebound. Though I suppose life is strange.

Is it crazy that I think whether or not Johnson plays will basically determine whether we're contending for first in the division or struggling for a wild card spot.

I don't think it's crazy at all. But then again some people have already forgotten how badly one sore thumb defenseman in an already-shaky group can self-destruct a team. And it hasn't even been that many years since it happened.

And obviously the division (and East in general) always seem very tight in recent years.
 
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Slaaapshuter

Registered User
May 10, 2015
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Is it crazy that I think whether or not Johnson plays will basically determine whether we're contending for first in the division or struggling for a wild card spot.

Depends, if he's out there shutting down 1 of our 2 scoring lines for 15-20 minutes a game then most definitely. If he's out there with defensive lines for 10 minutes then... less impact. But still bad.
 

JackFr

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Jun 18, 2010
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Yes that is crazy, regardless of how good or bad you think Johnson is.
I guess more to the point is if he's getting regular time with Crosby or Malkin. Because he completely neutralizes whoever he's with and without Kessel I don't know if we can PP our way past that.
 

K Fleur

Sacrifice
Mar 28, 2014
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Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
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I guess more to the point is if he's getting regular time with Crosby or Malkin. Because he completely neutralizes whoever he's with and without Kessel I don't know if we can PP our way past that.

Not only is it ridiculous to suggest that 1 bad defenseman can shut down an entire scoring line with Crosby or Malkin, it's also ridiculous to suggest a guy that will likely be playing 17 minutes a night, with only 13 or so minutes a night at ES, will be able to single handidly bring down a team. It doesn't have to do with how bad Johnson is, it's a gross exaggeration of what 1 bad player can do to a team. Johnson is 1 of 5 players on the ice at any given time and he'll at most be playing like 30% of a game. He can have a very negative impact relative to other players, but it's impossible for him to have as large of a negative impact as people here try to suggest.

When Malkin and Johnson were on the ice together last year, their 5v5 GF-GA ratio was 16-19. When Malkin was on the ice but Johnson wasn't, Malkin had a GF-GA ratio of 28-27. Johnson has a negative impact, but pretending he alone can bring down an entire line, and in turn an entire team, is just a gross exaggeration. There's no other way to put it. Johnson sucks relative to his peers, but even the worst player can't do that kind of damage alone.
 
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Harvey Birdman

…Need some law books, with pictures this time…
Oct 21, 2008
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I still think they send JJ to WBS. No reason for me to think this other than it gives them cap room to sign MP (if/when they send ZT to WBS too). It'd be a one year, cheaper deal, but it'd work.
Sending him to WBS is unlikely IMO just because of how little of cap relief we get. A big majority of his cap hit would stay with the team even if we demoted him. I don’t want to keep him but I don’t see the team eating that cap hit that would stay.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
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I guess the trials and tribulations of Derick Brassard continue in earnest as he is heavily rumored to be close to signing a one year deal with... Edmonton.
 

Dipsy Doodle

Rent A Barn
May 28, 2006
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Is it crazy that I think whether or not Johnson plays will basically determine whether we're contending for first in the division or struggling for a wild card spot.

No.

This opinion will probably be about as popular as "Bambi's mum had it coming", but the idea of Johnson having at least a moderate turnaround isn't that far fetched. Just looking at his stats, his relative possession stats were about the worst they've been since CBJ, and his individual production's never been worse. Maybe he just aged out of being quite bad to eldritch affront to humanity's sanity, but if he didn't, then he's definitely capable of being better (and so's the team around him).

The big question is whether he can turn it around enough to actually be worthwhile.

I'm probably reading this wrong, but...the worst he's been on since his last team, the previous year?

Not only is it ridiculous to suggest that 1 bad defenseman can shut down an entire scoring line with Crosby or Malkin, it's also ridiculous to suggest a guy that will likely be playing 17 minutes a night, with only 13 or so minutes a night at ES, will be able to single handidly bring down a team. It doesn't have to do with how bad Johnson is, it's a gross exaggeration of what 1 bad player can do to a team. Johnson is 1 of 5 players on the ice at any given time and he'll at most be playing like 30% of a game. He can have a very negative impact relative to other players, but it's impossible for him to have as large of a negative impact as people here try to suggest.

There was only 6 points separating 1st in the division and the last wildcard spot last year, and Johnson averaged 19 minutes a night last year - top 4 on our our team, exactly where he'd be playing if some here got their wish and Pettersson/Gudbranson remained together.

JJ can absolutely be the difference between 1st and struggling for a wildcard this season if they use him like last season.

When Malkin and Johnson were on the ice together last year, their 5v5 GF-GA ratio was 16-19. When Malkin was on the ice but Johnson wasn't, Malkin had a GF-GA ratio of 28-27. Johnson has a negative impact, but pretending he alone can bring down an entire line, and in turn an entire team, is just a gross exaggeration. There's no other way to put it. Johnson sucks relative to his peers, but even the worst player can't do that kind of damage alone.

Given that Malkin's line and every defense pairing after the 1st was a mess for most of last year, that's not terribly surprising. But since we're talking about the whole team here...

Crosby's 5v5 GF/GA ratio with JJ last year was 15-17.
Crosby's 5v5 GF/GA ratio without JJ last year was 67-26.

Yeah.
 
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Riptide

Registered User
Dec 29, 2011
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MP and his camp wanted the deal done so he can get his work visa and train in Pittsburgh. At the rate JR is going, they might as well just trade him and make this full circle of idiocy when JJ is still a regular for us.

The only thing I've seen about the work visa is that they said they needed the deal done in time before training camp so that he could get the visa and get to camp on time. Camp is 3 or so weeks away, which gives them at least 2 weeks to sort out a contract for MP before having to worry about him missing part of camp.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
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I'm probably reading this wrong, but...the worst he's been on since his last team, the previous year?

I omitted a vital part of the sentence - since joining CBJ. So worse than his last year there. Worse than most of his LA years too.

The "turnaround guys" cited from the Penguins' recent past are usually Martin and Gonchar.

It's easy to see how they were capable of that and why Johnson is almost certainty not.

If they shelter him heavily, keep his minutes low, micromanage his deployment, everything breaks right injury-wise (loooooooollllll) and Sullivan and his staff and resist the temptation to overplay him I could see him maybe being, well... just there. Do no harm and all that. Johnson does not have the puck skills, mobility, or hockey IQ to rebound. Though I suppose life is strange.

The same guy with the same skills has been better pretty much everywhere else. I'm not saying he's necessarily going to be *good*, but I feel like anyone in that situation has a good chance of a rebound unless you can see very specific reasons why not. I can see a few - maybe terminal age decline has set in; maybe he's just super in the wrong system; maybe the awkward jigsaw gets him, as his best hope is a reprise of Johnson-Pettersson but there's too many righties for that - but its maybes.

I expect absolutely nothing in terms of a Johnson rebound, but I will be surprised by nothing either. Life is very strange after all.
 
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