Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - If the dog days had dog days

[Gurglesons]

People on here were talking about him, but nobody thought he’d be lead the AHL in points right away or anything like that. And yea, but again nobody thought he’d supplant Fleury right away in summer 15 with Fleury just having signed a long term deal.

I guess my point is we have a ton more young players that are actual NHL talent right now and more prospects with expectations to be actual NHL talent than in 15-16.

 

[Turin]

I guess my point is we have a ton more young players that are actual NHL talent right now and more prospects with expectations to be actual NHL talent than in 15-16.

I agree

 

[Ugene Magic]

You’re drunk and Monday morning qbing.

We had an aging Dupuis and Kunitz as top six locks. Scuderi and Lovejoy as 2nd pairing guys. No futures by most people’s estimates outside of Guentzel and Murray.

Aging Kunitz still helped win b2b cups in a big way in the playoffs and is still a aspect you have to make up for. You made up a little with whom emerged but that still doesn't make up for what they had then.

Drunk is thinking this team will translate into that juggernaut that ended up with depth in every position.

You can't even remotely try and convince me this team is anywhere close to being that now or in the future. The team is worse because that happens very rarely.

You can try and justify position by position down the line, but you will never convince me this team has the makings of that team. You literally can't because the core of the pieces were already here.

 

[Gurglesons]

Aging Kunitz still helped win b2b cups in a big way in the playoffs and is still a aspect you have to make up for. You made up a little with whom emerged but that still doesn't make up for what they had then.

Drunk is thinking this team will translate into that juggernaut that ended up with depth in every position.

You can't even remotely try and convince me this team is anywhere close to being that now or in the future. The team is worse because that happens very rarely.

You can try and justify position by position down the line, but you will never convince me this team has the makings of that team. You literally can't because the core of the pieces were already here.

Nobody thought any of the pieces that were core pieces were core pieces in August of 2015. Murray maybe, but we had just resigned MAF.

Also, this post honestly reads what (myself included) many of us were saying heading into 15-16.

 

[EightyOne]

It’d be one thing if the article said Jack Johnson. It’s another that he thinks Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Murray won’t be good enough.

That's true.

I don't read links on here.

We have our own hot-takes. Any pundit has nothing on us, so I dismiss all that stuff. Some of you are way smarter than these people getting paid to write crap and push their own by-lines and drive clicks.

JR has been finding less gold at the end of his rainbows, though. And the guys are older. But it won't be bad until they are 38. Based on other highly skilled players in the league.

 

[Peat]

Even in 2015 nobody knew much about Guentzel (and those who did didn’t expect him to be who he is) and absolutely nobody expected Murray to supplant Fleury already.

What a great time. Life is crazy.

That isn’t true. Murray has just tore up the AHL and Jake was getting hype. He had finished in rookie of the year voting and was stringing together some nice career accolades.

I guess I should’ve included Sprong, Sundqvist and Pouliot on that list too. I wouldn’t say Guentzel was viewed as what he was after 15-16, but he was starting to generate some talk after back to back PPG seasons.

Tearing up the AHL and getting hype isn't the same as being expected to supplant Fleury by the end of the season though. And Guentzel came 9th in the prospect poll that year - I don't think people were calling it yet - Prospect Info: - Penguins #20 prospect

But whatever the details, I think it's pretty accurate to say nobody thought we had much of a future. People didn't seem to expect it after our cup win either.

Maybe we're not in a great place now. But we weren't in a better place then at the start of the season. And what really made it work was a freak coming together of chemistry.

 

[Gurglesons]

Tearing up the AHL and getting hype isn't the same as being expected to supplant Fleury by the end of the season though. And Guentzel came 9th in the prospect poll that year - I don't think people were calling it yet - Prospect Info: - Penguins #20 prospect

But whatever the details, I think it's pretty accurate to say nobody thought we had much of a future. People didn't seem to expect it after our cup win either.

Maybe we're not in a great place now. But we weren't in a better place then at the start of the season. And what really made it work was a freak coming together of chemistry.

So outside of Sprong and Simon the only non AHL talent was Jake which was what I was speaking to.

Basically the only (minimally) hyped forward prospect in the system with a chance to have an immediate impact. I think Sundqvist and Rust were thought of as having impact but mainly has bottom six guys at best.

 

[Son Goku]

That one from a few weeks ago? It was good. I'm not normally into podcasts, but that one was good.

I'm not either, but it's really cool to see Sid open up and talk about things. It's not often we see that side of him.

 

[Freeptop]

Here were the lines for the 2015/16 season opener:
Kunitz-Crosby-Kessel
Plotnikov-Malkin-Hornqvist
Perron-Bonino-Bennett
Farnham-Cullen-Sprong

Cole-Letang
Maatta-Lovejoy
Dumoulin-Scuderi

Fleury
Zatkoff

Dupuis was out with an injury at the time, Murray, Sheary, Rust and Kuhnhackl were still in the AHL, and Guentzel was still in college.

That said, compare that to the roster the Pens used in the 2015 playoffs (I don't have the actual lines recorded, like I happened to for the opening night game, so the lines here are a bit of a guess based on vague memories):
Kunitz-Crosby-Hornqvist
Perron-Malkin-Comeau
Winnik-Sutter-Bennett
Spaling-Lapierre-Adams

Martin-Cole
Scuderi-Lovejoy
Dumoulin-Chorney

Fleury
Greiss
(Dupuis, Letang and Ehrhoff were injured)


So, compared to the previous season's ending roster, it can definitely be said that the August 2015 roster was already looking up. We were all pretty excited about getting Kessel and getting rid of Sutter, as I recall. We had hoped that Perron would work out better starting with the team in training camp (man, that sounds familiar, somehow...) and there was hope that Plotnikov would turn out to be something good (just because we were all hopeful, doesn't mean we were hopeful for the right reasons!)

 

[Gurglesons]

Here were the lines for the 2015/16 season opener:
Kunitz-Crosby-Kessel
Plotnikov-Malkin-Hornqvist
Perron-Bonino-Bennett
Farnham-Cullen-Sprong

Cole-Letang
Maatta-Lovejoy
Dumoulin-Scuderi

Fleury
Zatkoff

Dupuis was out with an injury at the time, Murray, Sheary, Rust and Kuhnhackl were still in the AHL, and Guentzel was still in college.

That said, compare that to the roster the Pens used in the 2015 playoffs (I don't have the actual lines recorded, like I happened to for the opening night game, so the lines here are a bit of a guess based on vague memories):
Kunitz-Crosby-Hornqvist
Perron-Malkin-Comeau
Winnik-Sutter-Bennett
Spaling-Lapierre-Adams

Martin-Cole
Scuderi-Lovejoy
Dumoulin-Chorney

Fleury
Greiss
(Dupuis, Letang and Ehrhoff were injured)


So, compared to the previous season's ending roster, it can definitely be said that the August 2015 roster was already looking up. We were all pretty excited about getting Kessel and getting rid of Sutter, as I recall. We had hoped that Perron would work out better starting with the team in training camp (man, that sounds familiar, somehow...) and there was hope that Plotnikov would turn out to be something good (just because we were all hopeful, doesn't mean we were hopeful for the right reasons!)

I guess you are right. Plots carried some good will with him. By Sep people were excited about Sprong.

That being said, it’s hard not to see similarities between the two rosters.

 

[Riptide]

You’re drunk and Monday morning qbing.

We had an aging Dupuis and Kunitz as top six locks. Scuderi and Lovejoy as 2nd pairing guys. No futures by most people’s estimates outside of Guentzel and Murray.

Most wouldn't even have Guentzel on that list - it was Sprong. I'm pretty sure it was only after his rookie training camp that word started trickling out that he was the teams top prospect. And even still most of this board was still gaga over Sprong.

And Pouliot? Many here were still thinking he was going to be a Letang type offensive D.

I guess my point is we have a ton more young players that are actual NHL talent right now and more prospects with expectations to be actual NHL talent than in 15-16.

Easily. And while I get why people look at our prospect pool and snicker or laugh, I look at it and see pieces that should be excellent options to continue feeding the team with fast, cheap semi skilled wingers. None are slated to be blue chip guys, but we have a lot of quantity that has just enough quality to it that should give us what we need as long as Crosby and Malkin are #1Cs.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Think the biggest thing other than youthful hunger of course is the type of hard nosed players that are simply ready for an NHL PO series.
The Sheary, Bonino, Rust, Kunitz, Kuhnackl, Cullen/S.Wilson group to be specific.
I see some similarities there with the current group in:
Galchenyuk, Bjugstad, McCann, Tanev, Rust(if he gets hungry again), Blueger/Kahun/ZAR/Bjorkqvist/A.Johnson, etc.

Not a super highly skilled group but the hard nosed, forecheck/pressure with speed should be much better starting out than the last years squad with ZAR in the top 6, Phil(who forechecks when he feels like it), Brassard, Sheahan and Wilson all getting regular ice time.

I'll just put it as i'm optimistic.

ETA: I also thing Bjorkqvist is gonna be a coaches pet and work himself into the big club pretty quickly. Kid just seems to have a knack for getting a team to come together/gel. Forcing someone probably in the ZAR/Simon group out of a spot.

 

[Riptide]

ETA: I also thing Bjorkqvist is gonna be a coaches pet and work himself into the big club pretty quickly. Kid just seems to have a knack for getting a team to come together/gel. Forcing someone probably in the ZAR/Simon group out of a spot.

He's going to have to have one hell of a camp to force Reese or Simon out of a spot. Or when he eventually gets a call up for injuries. More likely he spends most of the season in WBS and is battling for time in 20/21 when we have another cap crunch as MM, McCann, Kahun, Simon, Schultz and Gally need new contracts (or replacements that we can afford). It's going to be then that guys like him will be our saving grace. This is what we've been bitching about for years (having cheap internal replacements). Now it'll just be a matter of moving on from guys at the right time and using FA to find guys that can't/don't do what our prospects can/do do. Most likely this will be focused on the blueline - depending on what happens with Schultz.

 

[Peat]

He's going to have to have one hell of a camp to force Reese or Simon out of a spot. Or when he eventually gets a call up for injuries. More likely he spends most of the season in WBS and is battling for time in 20/21 when we have another cap crunch as MM, McCann, Kahun, Simon, Schultz and Gally need new contracts (or replacements that we can afford). It's going to be then that guys like him will be our saving grace. This is what we've been *****ing about for years (having cheap internal replacements). Now it'll just be a matter of moving on from guys at the right time and using FA to find guys that can't/don't do what our prospects can/do do. Most likely this will be focused on the blueline - depending on what happens with Schultz.

I think something in Bjorkqvist's favour is that as long as we're sitting on Forward Mountain, the temptation to trade from it to have a go at fixing other parts of the team (coughsecondpairingcough) is going to be big and I think the mountain will get smaller over the season.

Speaking of fixing the second pairing, I see Bombulie is predicting Schultz is traded in season. No certainties yet, but it does make sense, and I really won't be surprised if Petts-Guddy ends up the 2nd pairing by usage by the end of next season

 

[vodeni]

I think something in Bjorkqvist's favour is that as long as we're sitting on Forward Mountain, the temptation to trade from it to have a go at fixing other parts of the team (coughsecondpairingcough) is going to be big and I think the mountain will get smaller over the season.

Speaking of fixing the second pairing, I see Bombulie is predicting Schultz is traded in season. No certainties yet, but it does make sense, and I really won't be surprised if Petts-Guddy ends up the 2nd pairing by usage by the end of next season

Gudbransson is a disaster in waiting...He can only played sheltered third pair minutes

 

[Peat]

Gudbransson is a disaster in waiting...He can only played sheltered third pair minutes

Inasmuch as the precise correlation between the information you communicated, and the facts insofar as they can be determined and demonstrated, it is such as to cause epistemological problems of sufficient magnitude as to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language a heavier burden than they can reasonably be expected to bear.

Or to put it simpler - that is a lie.

 

[vodeni]

Inasmuch as the precise correlation between the information you communicated, and the facts insofar as they can be determined and demonstrated, it is such as to cause epistemological problems of sufficient magnitude as to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language a heavier burden than they can reasonably be expected to bear.

Or to put it simpler - that is a lie.

We'll see...

 

[Peat]

We'll see...

There's no logical case for "We'll see" for something that's already been proven. Maybe he'll be something else going forwards, but he has already proven he can be successful in more than sheltered third pairing minutes.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I think something in Bjorkqvist's favour is that as long as we're sitting on Forward Mountain, the temptation to trade from it to have a go at fixing other parts of the team (coughsecondpairingcough) is going to be big and I think the mountain will get smaller over the season.

Speaking of fixing the second pairing, I see Bombulie is predicting Schultz is traded in season. No certainties yet, but it does make sense, and I really won't be surprised if Petts-Guddy ends up the 2nd pairing by usage by the end of next season

If they trade Schultz, then Petterson is going to be on the path to having phenomenal season.
Furthermore, I think trading Schultz is a HUUUUGE risk because we know Letang is gonna miss a handful of games next year. So then you're banking on Petts and a few spare parts (including JJ) to essentially replace Letang in a division where the margins are slim?

Yikes...That is a movie I do not want to see

I realize it's fun to play armchair QB where you trade expiring assets like Schultz for a haul, but we need to be all in next year.

 

[Peat]

If they trade Schultz, then Petterson is going to be on the path to having phenomenal season.
Furthermore, I think trading Schultz is a HUUUUGE risk because we know Letang is gonna miss a handful of games next year. So then you're banking on Petts and a few spare parts (including JJ) to essentially replace Letang in a division where the margins are slim?

Yikes...That is a movie I do not want to see

I realize it's fun to play armchair QB where you trade expiring assets like Schultz for a haul, but we need to be all in next year.

Yeah, can't really argue with that.

That said - Rutherford has been active in terms of trading expiring assets recently. Wouldn't surprise if he went there again. I'm not saying I want this scenario as much as I see it coming.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think something in Bjorkqvist's favour is that as long as we're sitting on Forward Mountain, the temptation to trade from it to have a go at fixing other parts of the team (coughsecondpairingcough) is going to be big and I think the mountain will get smaller over the season.

Agreed.

Speaking of fixing the second pairing, I see Bombulie is predicting Schultz is traded in season. No certainties yet, but it does make sense, and I really won't be surprised if Petts-Guddy ends up the 2nd pairing by usage by the end of next season.

Eeyikes. Talk about a recipe for disaster.

If we're dealing Schultz, Forward Mountain better yield us a better middle-pairing RD to replace him.

I'll never understand the mentality of a contending team trading a quality impending UFA to recoup some value when they're regularly using assets to acquire impending UFAs at the deadline to bolster playoff runs.

 

[Andy99]

Since we’re not going to get a first or a top four D back, there is zero reason to trade Schultz at the TDL ...if we’re last in the Metro by then, fine, but otherwise I just don’t see it happening...

 

[Peat]

Since we’re not going to get a first or a top four D back, there is zero reason to trade Schultz at the TDL ...if we’re last in the Metro by then, fine, but otherwise I just don’t see it happening...

Its unlikely but not impossible. A lot of us didn't expect to get a 3C back directly for Brassard, but we did. One as good as Schultz? Well, that depends a bit on what Schultz steps forwards next season. I like him in general but can't deny there's been some fair criticisms of him.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Russo said thats its likely Spurgeon gets traded. Id love to trade Schultz and then get Spurgeon with those assets+. Spurgeon is a huge minute eater.

Dumo-Letang
Pettersson-Spurgeon

Thats a sick top-4.

 

[Corvidae]

Russo said thats its likely Spurgeon gets traded. Id love to trade Schultz and then get Spurgeon with those assets+. Spurgeon is a huge minute eater.

Dumo-Letang
Pettersson-Spurgeon

Thats a sick top-4.

That could also be the lightest defensive pairing in modern NHL history.