Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - If the dog days had dog days

[WayneSid9987]

My lines if everyone was healthy would be:

McCann-Sid-Jake
Chucky-G-Horny/Rust
Tanev-Bjugstad-Rust/Horny
2 of ZAR/Kahun/Simon centered by Blueger.

Basically i'd take whoever looked better in camp of Horny and Rust and slot them in that L2-RW position.

ETA: The Rust with Sid lineup:

Jake-Sid-Rust
Chucky-G-Horny/McCann
Tanev-Bjugs-McCann/Horny
2 of ZAR/Kahun/Simon centered by Blueger

The Kahun gets a spin with Sid lineup:

Kahun-Sid-Jake
Chucky-G-Horny/Rust/McCann
McCann and 1 of Horny/Rust/Tanev centered by Bjugstad
1 of Horny/Rust/Tanev and 1 of Simon/ZAR centered by Blueger

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Potentially. I’d say there is a likely chance that Galchenyuk’s specific skill sit forces and also accents what we want from the Malkin line moving forward that Phil’s 100% did not.

Also, as @Empoleon8771 posted it seems that the plan is Petts - Schultz as a 2nd pairing.

Don't get me wrong, Malkin and Petts/Schultz can help a winger's statline out quite a bit. I just don't think it gets Gooch to 60 point territory if he's not on the top unit.

IIRC Guentzel only got 11 PP points last season on the 2nd unit, so if Gooch put up comparable PP numbers he'd need to have a 25-30 point improvement at ES to reach 60 total points.

Das a big ass jump.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

For as long as people blame forwards for poor possession stats while they're with him.

 

[Riptide]

If Petts signs a bridge deal, how long until he can sign an extension?

A bridge deal is typically a 2 or maybe a 3 yr deal. If he signs a multi year contract, he can sign a new one on July 1st of the final year of the deal. Aka if you look at Reese's contract, he could sign an extension for the 21/22 season on July 1st 2020.

However if he signs a 1 yr deal, he can't sign a new contract until Jan 1st.

@Peat

 

[Zirakzigil]

For as long as people blame forwards for poor possession stats while they're with him.

There really isnt anything else to talk about right now. Which dead horses do we still have? JJ being traded, signing Petts, top 6 lines, trading Rust, what will Galy do. Am I missing any?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

There really isnt anything else to talk about right now. Which dead horses do we still have? JJ being traded, signing Petts, top 6 lines, trading Rust, what will Galy do. Am I missing any?

Welcome to HF Pens discussion topics in early September 2019.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

The difference between Pettersson on a long term contract signed now and one signed next year could be considerable.

OK fine. So give him the one year bridge now. You're allowed to go 10% over the cap before game 1. Why are they waiting so long? It's keeping players that could potentially be traded in limbo all summer. And if you're going to make a trade, then just make it already. This could have been done in July.

Training camp is in 10 days.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

Welcome to HF Pens discussion topics in early September 2019.

I am obligated to like this photo. I find it hilarious anyway, this has to be an online glitch

 

[Peat]

OK fine. So give him the one year bridge now. You're allowed to go 10% over the cap before game 1. Why are they waiting so long? It's keeping players that could potentially be traded in limbo all summer. And if you're going to make a trade, then just make it already. This could have been done in July.

Training camp is in 10 days.

Because we'd rather give him the long term deal than the one year deal, but we'd also rather not trade someone for a bad return. Doing this in July would have locked us into one of the negative outcomes.

Ergo, they couldn't have done what they want in July.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Because we'd rather give him the long term deal than the one year deal, but we'd also rather not trade someone for a bad return. Doing this in July would have locked us into one of the negative outcomes.

Ergo, they couldn't have done what they want in July.

Nothing has changed between then and now. Aston-Reese signed on the 22nd of July. Nothing has been done since then. The return we'd get for a trade now is the same or even worse, seeing as how we're forced to make a trade with time running out, and other GMs know it. Weaker bargaining position in September.

Waiting accomplished nothing. Could have sat down with Pettersson's agent for a day or 2 in late July and figured it out. Then after that could have taken the time and focused on off-loading cap with a decent trade.

Just threw away a month+ for no reason.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Oh no, Pettersson isn't under contract by September 3rd! How selfish of JR, it's my defenseman and I want his contract done now!

 

[Andy99]

Nothing has changed between then and now. Aston-Reese signed on the 22nd of July. Nothing has been done since then. The return we'd get for a trade now is the same or even worse, seeing as how we're forced to make a trade with time running out, and other GMs know it. Weaker bargaining position in September.

Waiting accomplished nothing. Could have sat down with Pettersson's agent for a day or 2 in late July and figured it out. Then after that could have taken the time and focused on off-loading cap with a decent trade.

Just threw away a month for no reason.

I don’t think our bargaining position is any worse than it was on July 2...everyone knew as soon as we signed Tanev for $3.5 with a few RFAs to sign that we were cap strapped and might need to sell...in fact, I’m pretty sure we haven’t traded anyone because the prices have been exorbitant since July and teams with space are trying to squeeze out first round picks etc...the only thing that’s happened since July is that there may be a couple more teams, like NYR, who are also at or over the cap, but none of them are making trades either...I don’t think there’ll be any trades made until maybe November or December unless there’s comparably paid players switching teams in hockey trades...no one is going to get any value selling players until teams see what they have, the salary cost goes down and the TDL approaches imo....

JR signing Tanev is what led directly to this situation...

 

[WayneSid9987]

I mean we all know the player JR wants to dump and other GM's were probably throwing him anvils.
No doubt he's negotiated MP/his agent to the point where he'll be here at the start of training camp so atm he doesn't have to take any of those anvils and see once the dominoes start falling if he can get a fair deal done or not.
All that matters is MP will be here for TC.

 

[Peat]

Nothing has changed between then and now. Aston-Reese signed on the 22nd of July. Nothing has been done since then. The return we'd get for a trade now is the same or even worse, seeing as how we're forced to make a trade with time running out, and other GMs know it. Weaker bargaining position in September.

Waiting accomplished nothing. Could have sat down with Pettersson's agent for a day or 2 in late July and figured it out. Then after that could have taken the time and focused on off-loading cap with a decent trade.

Just threw away a month+ for no reason.

And? So? Just because a strategy doesn't play out doesn't mean that trying it was the wrong idea. For it to be the wrong idea, it has to hurt you, and since we have more or less the same options, it hasn't hurt us.

And that's because we're *not* forced to make a trade - and we're not forced to make a trade because the front office didn't lock themselves into anything with Pettersson's contract.

Also I'm pretty sure Rutherford's been looking for that trade all summer long and that the problem is with the market, which has been a problem NHL wide.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

Oh no, Pettersson isn't under contract by September 3rd! How selfish of JR, it's my defenseman and I want his contract done now!

*JG Wentworth intensifies*

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I don’t think our bargaining position is any worse than it was on July 2...everyone knew as soon as we signed Tanev for $3.5 with a few RFAs to sign that we were cap strapped and might need to sell...in fact, I’m pretty sure we haven’t traded anyone because the prices have been exorbitant since July and teams with space are trying to squeeze out first round picks etc...the only thing that’s happened since July is that there may be a couple more teams, like NYR, who are also at or over the cap, but none of them are making trades either...I don’t think there’ll be any trades made until maybe November or December unless there’s comparably paid players switching teams in hockey trades...no one is going to get any value selling players until teams see what they have, the salary cost goes down and the TDL approaches imo....

JR signing Tanev is what led directly to this situation...

We can't wait until November to make a trade though, at least if we want MP to play from the opener onward.

Assuming Ruhwedel and Trotman get sent down, we get 1.4 mil of relief. We're $157,000 over the cap. That leaves us with 1.243 mil. But we only have 13 forwards signed right now. NHL teams typically reach the 23-man limit with a 14F-7D-2G composition. So you can throw in an extra 700,000 for Bjorkqvist or whoever.

You're left with $543,000 and Pettersson unsigned. We have to make a trade. The only other options are him not playing or going with a 22-man roster, which is less than ideal.

~~~~~~

While I like Tanev and think he'll be helpful, I totally agree that it was a luxury we couldn't afford. Many other teams aren't trading yet because they have high profile RFA's and are waiting for the dominos to fall to gauge their situation. We're not one of them though.

Yes, the prices were astronomical in July. But that only applies to UFA's and RFA's. We could have dealt someone ages ago for lesser players and picks. The work wasn't put in by management to resolve the impasse though. Now guys like Rust, Bjugstad, Johnson etc.. still don't know if they're safe. They haven't known for sure all summer. It causes tension for them and their families. It's not a good way to manage your players. You're supposed to take care of your own and let them focus on the season.

 

[Andy99]

We can't wait until November to make a trade though, at least if we want MP to play from the opener onward.

Assuming Ruhwedel and Trotman get sent down, we get 1.4 mil of relief. We're $157,000 over the cap. That leaves us with 1.243 mil. But we only have 13 forwards signed right now. NHL teams typically reach the 23-man limit with a 14F-7D-2G composition. So you can throw in an extra 700,000 for Bjorkqvist or whoever.

You're left with $543,000 and Pettersson unsigned. We have to make a trade. The only other options are him not playing or going with a 22-man roster, which is less than ideal.

~~~~~~

While I like Tanev and think he'll be helpful, I totally agree that it was a luxury we couldn't afford. Many other teams aren't trading yet because they have high profile RFA's and are waiting for the dominos to fall to gauge their situation. We're not one of them though.

Yes, the prices were astronomical in July. But that only applies to UFA's and RFA's. We could have dealt someone ages ago for lesser players and picks. The work wasn't put in by management to resolve the impasse though. Now guys like Rust, Bjugstad, Johnson etc.. still don't know if they're safe. They haven't known for sure all summer. It causes tension for them and their families. It's not a good way to manage your players. You're supposed to take care of your own and let them focus on the season.

I don’t know how you can know that management didn’t put in the work to trade in July...they might have and it just fell through or the prices were outrageous ...remember that to unload Marleau it cost TOR a first on June 22...the rumors were that JR was looking to unload JJ...I’m sure it would have happened if the price was acceptable...but I think any trade would have had to happen before July 1 and FA because of the RFA situation...but at that time, we had cap space since Phil was moved...the problem was Tanev and the RFA holdups, also GMs dealing with arbitration...it’s not a surprise that the trade market has been depressed since July 2...

JR has already said that he’d be going with a 22 man roster if he can’t swing a trade...if he waived Trotman and JJ, he’ll have a little over $1.5 mil

 

[Riptide]

While I like Tanev and think he'll be helpful, I totally agree that it was a luxury we couldn't afford. Many other teams aren't trading yet because they have high profile RFA's and are waiting for the dominos to fall to gauge their situation. We're not one of them though.

Yes, the prices were astronomical in July. But that only applies to UFA's and RFA's. We could have dealt someone ages ago for lesser players and picks. The work wasn't put in by management to resolve the impasse though. Now guys like Rust, Bjugstad, Johnson etc.. still don't know if they're safe. They haven't known for sure all summer. It causes tension for them and their families. It's not a good way to manage your players. You're supposed to take care of your own and let them focus on the season.

No we're not. But that doesn't mean that those RFAs are not messing up the rest of the market. I mean there's still even quality UFAs that haven't signed because of what those RFAs are doing to the market. The idea that just because we don't have one of those RFAs and thus we're exempt from the market conditions in terms of us moving players is asinine.

Re bold #2. Don't be naive.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

No we're not. But that doesn't mean that those RFAs are not messing up the rest of the market. I mean there's still even quality UFAs that haven't signed because of what those RFAs are doing to the market. The idea that just because we don't have one of those RFAs and thus we're exempt from the market conditions in terms of us moving players is asinine.

Re bold #2. Don't be naive.

We're not exempt but what we'd offer and get in return are small fish very likely. It could have been done by now if there was any sense of urgency. The market wouldn't block it.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

And? So? Just because a strategy doesn't play out doesn't mean that trying it was the wrong idea. For it to be the wrong idea, it has to hurt you, and since we have more or less the same options, it hasn't hurt us.

And that's because we're *not* forced to make a trade - and we're not forced to make a trade because the front office didn't lock themselves into anything with Pettersson's contract.

Also I'm pretty sure Rutherford's been looking for that trade all summer long and that the problem is with the market, which has been a problem NHL wide.

Strategy or Jim just relaxing after making several moves in a short period of time? He almost spelled it out at his last press conference that he didn't plan to do anything for a while.

I don't buy that he's been grinding away for a trade over the last 40 days or whatever. Not at all. If he had been then one would have happened by now.

We are forced to make a trade if we want MP playing against Buffalo. Not enough cap and only 13 forwards signed right now.

And I would argue that it hurt us. MP might miss training camp because of procrastination. That affects performance and chemistry. On top of that, you've put all the potential trade chips through unnecessary stress all summer.

How would you feel if you were JJ, for example? You know that the Penguins tried to deal you to Minnesota already in the potential Zucker trade. Well over 2 months later and you STILL don't know for sure where you're playing. You have to check the news every day. Can't relax. Can't focus on the season.

 

[pokey10]

That article is significant for 2 reasons, that tells me a contract is basically done and this line:



It doesn't seem like the Penguins are set with going into next year with the same D pairs. Although I should also add that I've been expecting Pettersson's contract to be done for a while, and "no negotiations" just means "it's already done, so there's nothing to negotiate".

Does it have any salary implications if he signs closer to some unsaid deadline as opposed to now? Just curious.