Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: A New Error?

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Much like a guy like Malkin... regardless of how much shit I talk if you were to put a gun to my head and make me give my true-blue, honest, no-horseshit assessment I would say there is just no way Jarry is nearly as bad as he's shown.

Shit man I don't know if I'd put those terrible numbers up and I'm old and never played the position to begin with.

 

[Gurglesons]

Nah, I can easily see him playing beyond this deal in a retirement tour with Crosby, Malkin and Letang for like 3-4 years. That is, if those guys want to stay.

Fleury playing until he is 40 seems like a stretch given him finally seeming to get injured.

 

[EightyOne]

Well, paying Jarry to get Fleury off their hands seems like it sucks for us.

It all sucks NOW

Lol lol

 

[Empoleon8771]

Fleury playing until he is 40 seems like a stretch given him finally seeming to get injured.

I think that's possible but I'm not sure I buy he'll retire at 37, either.

I think a 1 or 2 year deal after this current contract and then him calling it quits is a good guess. Have him retire at like 38 or 39.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Idk I don't see anything wrong with this being the goaltending plan for the next 5 years:

1. Trade Jarry for Fleury with salary retained, and plan on re-signing Fleury to another short term deal after 2022 for him to be your starter for the next 3-4 years
2. Hope one of Clang or Blomqvist can develop into a NHL backup by the end of Fleury's deal. I think you'd need to get Fleury for 4 years for this to even be possible, though.
3. Have Clang or Blomqvist take over as the starter when Fleury retires, and bring in another veteran goalie to platoon with whichever prospect ends up legit.

The issue is are either Blomqvist or Clang going to be NHL ready in 2024? Blomqvist would turn 22 during that season and Clang would be 21 during that entire season. I can't see a situation where Fleury would stay beyond 2024 unless he's record hunting, and I even think 2024 is a kinda optimistic idea for how many years Fleury has left.

 

[pensfan71]

I'm gonna be so annoyed if we bring back Fleury and trade Jarry only to show that the d-core is what's f***ing us all

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm gonna be so annoyed if we bring back Fleury and trade Jarry only to show that the d-core is what's f***ing us all

I genuinely have no idea how fans can legitimately believe that their problems this year are more with defense than goaltending.

Just completely blows my mind.

 

[MayorofWBS]

Don't think they'll want CDS

They would just lose Jarry in the ED.

 

[Pens x]

I genuinely have no idea how fans can legitimately believe that their problems this year are more with defense than goaltending.

Just completely blows my mind.

This

 

[Doogle]

You know.... I'm thinking we should just say screw it and do whatever it takes to get the band back together. Our outlook looks bleak regardless. It's not like we're cup favorites or even a sure playoff team. I want the Penguins to be fun to watch again. Bring on the reunion tour

 

[TySmith4Norris]

Almost any potential trade involving Fleury is one step forward and two steps back

Not sure how many don’t see that

What happened to competing with an eye towards the future?

Not even going to start on trading a young all star goalie for a rough stretch of ten games... have some forgotten the entire seasons Fleury looked off?

 

[EightyOne]

Not even going to start on trading a young all star goalie for a rough stretch of ten games... have some forgotten the entire seasons Fleury looked off?

Literally just had a DOUBLE Stanley Cup goalie leave this summer, who for most of his time here, looked way better than Jarry lol

 

[Will Hunting]

Literally just had a DOUBLE Stanley Cup goalie leave this summer, who for most of his time here, looked way better than Jarry lol

Good riddance tho. Matt Murray is not a good goalie anymore and is ridiculously overpaid as well. We have no time to find out what Jarry is unfortunately. Season is short and right now he is costing us points. Something gotta give and playing DeSmith as 1A certainly isn't a way to go neither.

 

[TySmith4Norris]

Literally just had a DOUBLE Stanley Cup goalie leave this summer, who for most of his time here, looked way better than Jarry lol

Didn’t look better when he was traded...

Also a general difference with trading your young goalie that wants paid because you have an in house replacement vs. trading your young goalie for an older option because of a rough stretch

Not sure how the two are remotely comparable

 

[Gurglesons]

Didn’t look better when he was traded...

Also a general difference with trading your young goalie that wants paid because you have an in house replacement vs. trading your young goalie for an older option because of a rough stretch

Not sure how the two are remotely comparable

Actually he did look better outside of one game in the playoffs.

 

[PensandCaps]

For all the complaints about Letang, he has aged much much better than Doughty or Karlsson, who have been straight up awful for the past 3 years, and they're younger but yet have entered the huge decline well before Letang.

It's not so easy to be as good as Letang is, and seeing just how many people on this site and others, who just want to trade that away is bonkers to me.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I genuinely have no idea how fans can legitimately believe that their problems this year are more with defense than goaltending.

Just completely blows my mind.

Because goaltending, as bad as it is, is almost always magnified by bad defense as we've seen forever in this league?

Also doubly ironic because you're arguing hard for trading for MAF-- who the best argument for keeping him was... bad team defense made him look worse than he was!

 

[Empoleon8771]

Because goaltending, as bad as it is, is almost always magnified by bad defense as we've seen forever in this league?

But again, the Penguins goaltending has performed exceptionally below how the defense has performed. Even if you assume the Penguins defense has been far away the worst in the league, whic it hasn't, that doesn't justify Jarry's save%. His save% is so far below anything that can be considered even reasonable with a terrible defense.

Also doubly ironic because you're arguing hard for trading for MAF-- who the best argument for keeping him was... bad team defense made him look worse than he was!

Uh, what?

Don't attribute arguments I've never made to different discussions please. There was no argument for keeping Fleury over Murray in 2017.

 

[Pens x]

The bring back MAF talk and endlessly defending Jarry, who is playing like Stevie Wonder, are uhhhh interesting takes.

 

[LRS87]

I would like to swap McCann/Bennett and then trade for a cheap RW to upgrade Lafferty/Sceviour. Take Virtanen for example for say Sceviour+prospect+3rd

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Bennett-Malkin-Kapanen
Zucker-Jankowski-Virtanen
ZAR-Bluegar-Tanev

 

[HandshakeLine]

Don't attribute arguments I've never made to different discussions please. There was no argument for keeping Fleury over Murray in 2017.

I didn't say you were talking about MAF over Murray. I'm talking about the realities of the goaltending position, Emp. The whole defensive unit from the blueline to the goal line is underperforming. What will a change of goalies do? Good goalies get swamped by bad defenses all the time, to the point where I'd like to see evidence of a goaltending trade actually effecting a positive turnaround in a team's performance by its own bad self.

Goaltending is a symbiotic position, and to treat it as if it was isolated, and fixable in a statistical vacuum, isn't really realistic. At all. It doesn't jive with how the stats work. It doesn't jive with how the game is played. It doesn't jive with the tape. So, show me your work, convince me of how I'm looking at it the wrong way, or don't be a patronizing ass about it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I didn't say you were talking about MAF over Murray. I'm talking about the realities of the goaltending position, Emp. The whole defensive unit from the blueline to the goal line is underperforming. What will a change of goalies do? Good goalies get swamped by bad defenses all the time, to the point where I'd like to see evidence of a goaltending trade actually effecting a positive turnaround in a team's performance by its own bad self.

Goaltending is a symbiotic position, and to treat it as if it was isolated, and fixable in a statistical vacuum, isn't really realistic. At all. It doesn't jive with how the stats work. It doesn't jive with how the game is played. It doesn't jive with the tape. So, show me your work, convince me of how I'm looking at it the wrong way, or don't be a patronizing ass about it.

And good goalies also bail out bad defenses all of the time too.

Again, we have the stats to evaluate these kind of things. Analytically the Penguins goaltending has been miles worse than what it should be based on the quality of shots it gives up. If a goalie is facing 10 high danger chances a game, statistically he should be stopping 8 of them if he's an average goalie. Jarry's at about 6.5 and DeSmith is at about 7.5. Even if the Penguins defense was the worst in hockey, which it's not, that doesn't absolve the degree at which Jarry (and to a lesser extent DeSmith, but it's not DeSmith's fault) is performing. He is performing FAR worse than an average goalie should be performing on the caliber of shots he's facing.

I've shown the work already. Just because people don't want to believe what the stats say doesn't mean that the stats are wrong.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Again, I'm not saying trading for MAF is necessarily wrong, nor do I think that Jarry and CDS are playing well at all. They're f***ing terrible now. But again, is trading for a better, or even elite goalie going to help us? Not really. We're talking about a team that hasn't won in regulation, hasn't had the lead in how many periods, and is at the bottom of the league in the PK and PP. What is trading for a better goalie on its lonesome going to do with the other problem areas? It's not like we're constantly leading and then blowing a lead on a late shot from center ice.

 

[HandshakeLine]

And good goalies also bail out bad defenses all of the time too.

Again, I'd like a name here. Any name that shows it will do.

Again, we have the stats to evaluate these kind of things. Analytically the Penguins goaltending has been miles worse than what it should be based on the quality of shots it gives up. If a goalie is facing 10 high danger chances a game, statistically he should be stopping 8 of them if he's an average goalie. Jarry's at about 6.5 and DeSmith is at about 7.5. Even if the Penguins defense was the worst in hockey, which it's not, that doesn't absolve the degree at which Jarry (and to a lesser extent DeSmith, but it's not DeSmith's fault) is performing. He is performing FAR worse than an average goalie should be performing on the caliber of shots he's facing.

I've shown the work already. Just because people don't want to believe what the stats say doesn't mean that the stats are wrong.

I'd like to know why it's not DeSmith's fault, and also it's not that the stats are wrong, it's that they're not telling the whole story. C'mon, you're a smart kid, you should know that by now. I'd expect this post out of CM, not you.

Again, a goaltending trade isn't a bad idea, but it's not going to show anything statistically without the team playing better defense in front of the net. You know this.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

You know.... I'm thinking we should just say screw it and do whatever it takes to get the band back together. Our outlook looks bleak regardless. It's not like we're cup favorites or even a sure playoff team. I want the Penguins to be fun to watch again. Bring on the reunion tour

that fun could also end up turning into comedy though!!