Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: A New Error?

[TimmyD]

Which is also true. The Penguins have a bad team defense that people think is horrid because Jarry can't make a save on high danger chances. People think the Penguins defense is the worst in hockey because of that, while it is bad but not quite that bad. They're a bottom-10 defensive team with horrid goaltending.

Again, this is completely a grey area argument. Just because you're trying to portray "the defense stinks, but it isn't as bad as what people think" as "the defense is completely fine" doesn't make that true.

I’m not trying to portray that. You are saying that bringing in a different goalie would yield different results. So you think the team defense is “good enough” as long as they have have a better goalie. I think goaltending is a problem for sure. Jarry absolutely needs to play better and I’d have no issue going to get a vet to be his backup. But it’s about 3rd or 4th on my list of flaws with this team

 

[Empoleon8771]

I’m not trying to portray that. You are saying that bringing in a different goalie would yield different results. So you think the team defense is “good enough” as long as they have have a better goalie. I think goaltending is a problem for sure. Jarry absolutely needs to play better and I’d have no issue going to get a vet to be his backup. But it’s about 3rd or 4th on my list of flaws with this team

Yes, it would. The results they're getting now are worst in hockey. Another goalie would still likely yield poor bad results, but "poor to bad results" are substantially better than what they're getting now.

I view this team to be poor to bad defensively with horrid goaltending. Put average goaltending and they'd still be a poor to bad defensive team with average goaltending. Goaltending wouldn't solve the team's goals against problems, but goaltending is the bigger culprit for their goals against problems. I really don't see why people are struggling to grasp this.

Fixing the goaltending won't solve all of their woes, but goaltending is their biggest problem right now, even more than team defense. Well, more specifically Jarry because I think DeSmith is playing about as well as you can expect from him considering the team in front of him.

 

[pensfan71]

The bring back MAF talk and endlessly defending Jarry, who is playing like Stevie Wonder, are uhhhh interesting takes.

Stevie Wonder has me rolling in laughter not gonna lie

 

[Trade]

While we’re at it, why don’t we see what Jeff Zatkoff’s been up to? Maybe we can squeeze a few more drops of that 2016 magic out of him.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Even when Jarry plays, has he really been stick handling the puck like we expected him? Serious question as I'm not recalling.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Even when Jarry plays, has he really been stick handling the puck like we expected him? Serious question as I'm not recalling.

No but I think that's mostly because teams really aren't dumping and chasing against the Penguins that much.

They're so soft with their coverage at their own blue line that other teams feel free to carry the puck into the zone. That's at least the way it seems.

 

[EightyOne]

Does MAF make us anymore of a contender then we already are with all the other flaws that even you have said this team has? The answer is no and because of that trading a 25 year old goalie making $3.5 million to pay a 36 year old making more money on an already cap strapped team makes absolutely zero sense. Even if Fleury would be playing better then Jarry (which I’m not convinced is a sure thing) this team is so flawed in so many other areas that it’s not going to make a difference. It’s literally just saying “let’s get the band back together baby!” It’s not a remotely smart decision

I mean, as a REQUISITE MAF back is NOT at his cap hit.

No one wants that.

How to convince VGK to retain or launder through a third team gets complicated.

 

[The Old Master]

The Pens lottery protect 1st 2020 went to Toronto for Kapanen which was originally supposed to go to Minny for Zucker.

The last three years the Pens have...

2019 - Poulin
2020 - Kapanen
2021 - Zucker

I think the 1sts were well allocated for.

how many of them are locked up with cheep entry contracts for the net few of years?

 

[The Old Master]

I genuinely have no idea how fans can legitimately believe that their problems this year are more with defense than goaltending.

Just completely blows my mind

1, some of us can see the game! and know what goes into playing goal.
2. please use a bucket to lessen the mess.

 

[Gurglesons]

Long pants hockey. So the opposite of what @ColePens wears in the summer?

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Finally, time for those who never wear shorts to shine.

 

[dogthateats]

Jordan Nolan NHL contract in 3,2...

 

[molon labe]

To say "we won't be good enough anyway, so there's no point in upgrading shitty areas of the roster" is a really bad argument against making the change. It would be one thing to say "don't waste assets when it won't make a difference", but to say no to making clear upgrades because "we won't be good enough anyway" is a bad argument.

Lol at the idea that Fleury would be anything but a clear upgrade on Jarry. Come on now, that's ridiculous. Fleury is just a clearly better goalie than Jarry, and you'd have to be comically overrating Jarry to even begin arguing against that. Fleury's a future HHoF goalie that has been ultra consistent year to year over his entire 17 year career. We frankly have no clue what Tristan Jarry even is at this point.

Why do you still go so hard on this?

The dude has been an absolute flop in the playoffs... so unless we're just concerned about the regular season he's not the guy. Doubt Jarry all you will - time will tell. Time HAS told that Fleury has an equal or better chance of costing us a series as he does assisting in a series. Give it a rest.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

My interest in Fleury was 0, is 0, and will continue to be 0.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why do you still go so hard on this?

The dude has been an absolute flop in the playoffs... so unless we're just concerned about the regular season he's not the guy. Doubt Jarry all you will - time will tell. Time HAS told that Fleury has an equal or better chance of costing us a series as he does assisting in a series. Give it a rest.

Fleury has a career .911 save% in the playoffs and has a .921 save% in 3 playoff runs with Vegas

You're stuck in 2013 if you're seriously still knocking him for his playoff performances.

 

[Shady Machine]

The time to get Fleury, if there ever was a time, was last summer when they were trying to move him for cap space and remove the awkwardness of Lehner being their new starter. They moved Schmidt instead as there apparently wasn’t a lot of interest. Now he’s mended the fences and is playing great. Why would Vegas move him and retain?

Seriously can we freaking move on from Fleury?

 

[Empoleon8771]

The time to get Fleury, if there ever was a time, was last summer when they were trying to move him for cap space and remove the awkwardness of Lehner being their new starter. They moved Schmidt instead as there apparently wasn’t a lot of interest. Now he’s mended the fences and is playing great. Why would Vegas move him and retain?

Seriously can we freaking move on from Fleury?

They won't move him right now so you're right with that, but they very likely try to move him this off-season.

The Penguins problem is that they need to address their goaltending woes a lot earlier than this off-season. You need someone who can help now, and that likely won't be Fleury. IMO they should be blowing up Arizona's phone about acquiring Raanta to platoon with Jarry.

 

[Shady Machine]

They won't move him right now so you're right with that, but they very likely try to move him this off-season.

The Penguins problem is that they need to address their goaltending woes a lot earlier than this off-season. You need someone who can help now, and that likely won't be Fleury. IMO they should be blowing up Arizona's phone about acquiring Raanta to platoon with Jarry.

Yeah fair. I’m with you on replacing DeSmith with a guy that can really challenge Jarry, but not sure I want to dedicate serious assets to that this year. I don’t think this team is a goalie upgrade from making a run this year. No easy answers on the near future of the team.

 

[MayorofWBS]

This board at times....I swear.

Who at this point other than Seattle is going to want Jarry with an expansion draft coming up? I doubt Jarry has much value right now with how he is playing and his contract. Even if you think he can turn it around, I doubt it starts to really show up until next year. You know...after Seattle has taken him away for free in the ED (they will take at least 3 NHL vet goalies). He's not the guy right now for most teams, having another established starter goalie, because they are going to have to pay protection to keep him. I doubt he's the one that gets traded.

Who's available? Maybe just Raanta or MAF. Yotes have been fishing Kuemper for a first for awhile now. I'm not sure they will find a buyer at that price. Raanta contract is up this year and they may want to move Raanta for something before losing him to UFA. Thing is, they still have some time to wait it out on finding a sucker to bite on Kuemper for a better return than Raanta would bring. Where's the breakpoint on deciding to move Raanta first? TDL most likely.

MAF may or may not be available. No real point for Vegas to move on MAF in season now unless they need to free up cap space for new player. Having a taxi squad is bailing them out for the time being with the cap and their roster limitations. I could see them waiting to the offseason. Its still going to be hard for Vegas to move on him as MAF is still holding a lot of the cards (M-NTC and he could bluff retirement talks to keep Seattle away if he wanted).

I don't think Jarry is going to magically just get better suddenly. He should have been paired with a better NHL vet goalie from the start this year. BTW - Its time to fire the goalie coach (Murry, Jarry, etc) as it doesn't seem the coach is helping anyone.

 

[Andy99]

Yeah fair. I’m with you on replacing DeSmith with a guy that can really challenge Jarry, but not sure I want to dedicate serious assets to that this year. I don’t think this team is a goalie upgrade from making a run this year. No easy answers on the near future of the team.

On the other hand, they have absolutely no chance without a better goalie...do you want management to say F U to the players, we know we have a problem there but we’re going to ignore it and let you keep losing games because of it? I don’t...they should be trying hard to pick up a vet goalie within reason (meaning no 1st etc crucial assets going out the door)...

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah fair. I’m with you on replacing DeSmith with a guy that can really challenge Jarry, but not sure I want to dedicate serious assets to that this year. I don’t think this team is a goalie upgrade from making a run this year. No easy answers on the near future of the team.

I think this is totally fair. I'd personally try to acquire Raanta with the goal of extending him, with using McCann as the main chip to get that. The proposal I made on the main boards that I think is fair is McCann and DeSmith for Raanta and Caggiula, and I'd be looking at retaining both Raanta and Caggiula after this year.

This board at times....I swear.

Who at this point other than Seattle is going to want Jarry with an expansion draft coming up? I doubt Jarry has much value right now with how he is playing and his contract. Even if you think he can turn it around, I doubt it starts to really show up until next year. You know...after Seattle has taken him away for free in the ED (they will take at least 3 NHL vet goalies). He's not the guy right now the most teams, having another established starter goalie, because they are going to have to pay protection to keep him. I doubt he's the one that gets traded.

I think Edmonton and Buffalo stick out as teams that would be interested in him. Basically teams that already have a 1B goalie but need a 1A goalie that Jarry has the potential to be. I could also see Vegas being interested in a Lehner-Jarry tandem, because they're not participating in the expansion draft for Seattle so they're not at risk of losing Jarry.

The problem is that if you trade Jarry, you need to be getting a proven starting goalie. You have maybe Fleury, but Vegas isn't going to trade him until Lehner straightens his shit out. And beyond that, there's really no one. Raanta is a guy you acquire to platoon with Jarry, not move Jarry to acquire him.

 

[ownal]

Wasn't Vegas willing to attach a 1st to Flower to get rid of him in the summer? What happened?

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

isn’t Raanta like always, always hurt? This is who we want? And we’re gonna extend him?

May I remind you all this is the Penguins?

edit: he’s literally expected back off injury today. We’re just asking for it with this guy

 

[Empoleon8771]

isn’t Raanta like always, always hurt? This is who we want? And we’re gonna extend him?

May I remind you all this is the Penguins?

edit: he’s literally expected back off injury today. We’re just asking for it with this guy

Beggars can't be choosers, though

If the option is to trade for an oft-injured good goalie in Raanta or go with DeSmith, I'd gamble on Raanta.

 

[MayorofWBS]

I think this is totally fair. I'd personally try to acquire Raanta with the goal of extending him, with using McCann as the main chip to get that. The proposal I made on the main boards that I think is fair is McCann and DeSmith for Raanta and Caggiula, and I'd be looking at retaining both Raanta and Caggiula after this year.



I think Edmonton and Buffalo stick out as teams that would be interested in him. Basically teams that already have a 1B goalie but need a 1A goalie that Jarry has the potential to be. I could also see Vegas being interested in a Lehner-Jarry tandem, because they're not participating in the expansion draft for Seattle so they're not at risk of losing Jarry.

The problem is that if you trade Jarry, you need to be getting a proven starting goalie. You have maybe Fleury, but Vegas isn't going to trade him until Lehner straightens his shit out. And beyond that, there's really no one. Raanta is a guy you acquire to platoon with Jarry, not move Jarry to acquire him.

I forgot about Vegas not be part of the ED. Still, its not like we don't have leverage in a deal for MAF. It doesn't matter, I don't think Vegas is going to move MAF in season now with Lehner not coming out hot. They would have to be hot to trot on someone bigger at the TDL to move MAF now. I'd want Vegas to keep MAF until after the ED happened in that case. Might be just able to sign Raanta in the off season. The point being, we don't have to trade Jarry unless we want to.