Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: A New Error?

[Pittsburgh1776]

The one constant in Malkin's worst stretch of hockey in his career has been Zucker. And, it's not like it was that much more inspiring in the playoffs before this.

As I keep saying, sometimes two guys are just oil and water together and you have to accept it and move on from there.

At least Malkin and Kapanen are on the same planet as far as chemistry goes.

Zucker is one of your trade pieces, although I think the 'injured LD for L2 LW' swap is the thing that is most conceivable.

EDIT: One thing I love is this 'well give them time to develop chemistry'. Truth is, there NEVER has been a good Malkin line that developed chemistry over time. The chemistry was obvious from the beginning, and there was production from the beginning. It didn't guarantee that the line would endure, but instant chemistry was a hallmark of every single good or better Malkin line.

The obvious move, to me, is the org moves on from Malkin this offseason. Package him with a couple other pieces and restock around the kind of players the coach and the organization want. That's the direction the org has been moving since 2018 and only Sid and maybe Mario stopped if before. You may also see Letang moved. But the org is not going to build anything around Malkin going forward IMO. That's just the sense I get from all the comments and gestures made by all involved. He will be 35 at that point, and simply doesn't have the longevity that Sid does and the style that could keep him around into his late 30s. But the Pens could have two or three years left of high level Crosby and that can't be wasted.

 

[Turin]

The obvious move, to me, is the org moves on from Malkin this offseason. Package him with a couple other pieces and restock around the kind of players the coach and the organization want. That's the direction the org has been moving since 2018 and only Sid and maybe Mario stopped if before. You may also see Letang moved. But the org is not going to build anything around Malkin going forward IMO. That's just the sense I get from all the comments and gestures made by all involved. He will be 35 at that point, and simply doesn't have the longevity that Sid does and the style that could keep him around into his late 30s. But the Pens could have two or three years left of high level Crosby and that can't be wasted.

It’s obvious- until he’s gone, of course, and then you realize that even an old Malkin was a huge blessing to have at 2nd line center.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

I don't disagree. Just stating where I think the organization is headed, and that I don't think Malkin will be as effective in his later years as Crosby is. Two different styles.

 

[OnMyOwn]

I don't disagree. Just stating where I think the organization is headed, and that I don't think Malkin will be as effective in his later years as Crosby is. Two different styles.

I think G leaves on his own and finishes in Russia or something. As I said before, I doubt this Organization shows him the door and they shouldn’t.

 

[SEALBound]

Sid isn't going to play with him, he's oil and water with Malkin, BART is the 3rd line, and apparently he can't be played on the other bottom six line because he's not a bottom 6 player even if he was one when the Pens traded for him.

It's not hate. It's about priorities.

For a lot of us, it's 'Malkin has played the worst hockey of his career, and the one constant for him has been Zucker; ergo, accept that sometimes two players don't work together and split them up'.

For others, it's 'you paid a 1st for Zucker and he produces enough to be in the top 6 or something, so you have to play him with Malkin and Kapanen because that's the only spot the coach will put him, and it's on Malkin to make that work even if it's been clear since day one it won't work'.

I'm in the former group. You appear to be in the latter group. I don't see what's 'hateful' in acknowledging that.

Not sure you have to give up Poulin. Depends on whether one or both of McCann or Zucker is moved. Conceivably, you could move the LD for the better fit at L2 LW and take more of a stop gap goalie rental with a lesser asset, leaving Zucker-McCann as 2/3 of a bottom 6 line (not sure if there's a goalie who fits that bill, of course).

I would hope not but I would be open to it if there was trade for a young impact player <24yo or so, I would be open to it. It would be trading for a "Poulin in 2-3 years" player. I wouldn't do a Wood-Coleman-Barclay-like trade where we are giving him up for an established bottom 6 player.

I’ve seen his name come up here and there but I would love to get Miles Wood from NJ.
Not sure if McCann would be enough.
Pettersson?
Zucker for Wood +?

That would have to be a hell of a plus. A big enough plus to get back another asset such as Bennett. Like, say you agree to Bennett for 2nd, if it's Zucker for Wood+2nd, then that's something to consider. But Wood as the main piece back...woof. Straight up, I would vomit. Wood has decent value but not top 6, 30g scorer capable value. I think McCann would do it value wise but I don't see why NJ would do it.

I think G leaves on his own and finishes in Russia or something. As I said before, I doubt this Organization shows him the door and they shouldn’t.

Unless he asks. I could see a scenario where he extends 3 years but is traded to Florida after Letang is traded and Sid elects no to stay for a rebuild.

 

[The Old Master]

Sid isn't going to play with him, he's oil and water with Malkin, BART is the 3rd line, and apparently he can't be played on the other bottom six line because he's not a bottom 6 player even if he was one when the Pens traded for him.

It's not hate. It's about priorities.

For a lot of us, it's 'Malkin has played the worst hockey of his career, and the one constant for him has been Zucker; ergo, accept that sometimes two players don't work together and split them up'.

For others, it's 'you paid a 1st for Zucker and he produces enough to be in the top 6 or something, so you have to play him with Malkin and Kapanen because that's the only spot the coach will put him, and it's on Malkin to make that work even if it's been clear since day one it won't work'.

I'm in the former group. You appear to be in the latter group. I don't see what's 'hateful' in acknowledging that.



Not sure you have to give up Poulin. Depends on whether one or both of McCann or Zucker is moved. Conceivably, you could move the LD for the better fit at L2 LW and take more of a stop gap goalie rental with a lesser asset, leaving Zucker-McCann as 2/3 of a bottom 6 line (not sure if there's a goalie who fits that bill, of course).

i think if you get the 2nd line going and with our defensemen getting healthy, the goaltending will take care of it's self.
edit; it may take getting a center and moving geno to wing.

 

[Daeni10]

Sid isn't going to play with him, he's oil and water with Malkin, BART is the 3rd line, and apparently he can't be played on the other bottom six line because he's not a bottom 6 player even if he was one when the Pens traded for him.

It's not hate. It's about priorities.

For a lot of us, it's 'Malkin has played the worst hockey of his career, and the one constant for him has been Zucker; ergo, accept that sometimes two players don't work together and split them up'.

For others, it's 'you paid a 1st for Zucker and he produces enough to be in the top 6 or something, so you have to play him with Malkin and Kapanen because that's the only spot the coach will put him, and it's on Malkin to make that work even if it's been clear since day one it won't work'.

I'm in the former group. You appear to be in the latter group. I don't see what's 'hateful' in acknowledging that.

I agree with what you said Kirk. I do think that it's on Malkin to work it out, but obviously you need to help him doing it. Longer term, the obvious move for me would be switching the wingers as many have suggested, however I also understand why you wouldn't want to do that right now as L1 has been fire. I just don't think there is a trade out there that involves Zucker that makes us better right away, as I like the player in general. If it's just about finding a better fit for Malkin, then that really puts all the eggs in the Malkin isn't the problem but his line is basket. And before doing that, I think it would be way more beneficial for the team to try and switch the wingers again first. Because production wise Malkin really is the only one on L2 that suffers from this line which makes me wonder if it might be on Malkin as well. Yes Zucker is the constant, but Zucker also constantly produced despite that at his expected rate, while Malkin did not.

An in season trade to find a winger that clicks better with Geno is insanely difficult in my opinion. You need to find the right player, get him, and then be lucky enough for them to find chemistry right away. So if you come to the conclusion that one of them needs to go, I think it's mostly doable in the offseason. Until then Geno has to somewhat figure it out and just find his game again. As I said, you can obviously help him and switch the wingers around, but he has to be better as well. Because I think with the 4 wingers and 2 centers we have, there are certain combinations that will give us a very good top 6. It's not like with Brassard where we knew he either had to be #3c or there is no room for him.

And to be clear, if you come to the conclusion that you don't want both players on your roster starting next season, then Zucker is the obvious one to move. I want Geno to retire as a Penguin and see his jersey go up there right after.

I think I would rather have Sid and Geno retire Penguins as winning a 4th cup and moving them

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If they're not going to fix Malkin's line, and the next plan isn't just get a really good goalie and tighten the hell up hugely, then I'd just want them to sell. Turbo-charging the 3rd in that situation is just not going to shift the needle.

Where we differ is that I haven't lost faith in this goaltending duo just yet. Both have a decent track record of being good, and over the sample size where they're struggling the blueline has been the most injured in the league.

If we want to give this group their best chance to win this year, Getzlaf would be on my short list.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Anyone got some fancy stats or have watched Vlad Namestnikov recently? From what I recall, there were some on our board who wanted him at last season's TDL and again in the offseason. He's on a shitty Detroit team, but his stats seem decent.

 

[Gurglesons]

Anyone got some fancy stats or have watched Vlad Namestnikov recently? From what I recall, there were some on our board who wanted him at last season's TDL and again in the offseason. He's on a shitty Detroit team, but his stats seem decent.

He’s meh as hell.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Anyone got some fancy stats or have watched Vlad Namestnikov recently? From what I recall, there were some on our board who wanted him at last season's TDL and again in the offseason. He's on a shitty Detroit team, but his stats seem decent.

Seems on good teams they're good and on bad teams they're bad.

Vladislav Namestnikov - Summary - Natural Stat Trick

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Where we differ is that I haven't lost faith in this goaltending duo just yet. Both have a decent track record of being good, and over the sample size where they're struggling the blueline has been the most injured in the league.

If we want to give this group their best chance to win this year, Getzlaf would be on my short list.

Malkin - Getzlaf - Kapanen

Could be interesting.

 

[Rakell67]

I would hope not but I would be open to it if there was trade for a young impact player <24yo or so, I would be open to it. It would be trading for a "Poulin in 2-3 years" player. I wouldn't do a Wood-Coleman-Barclay-like trade where we are giving him up for an established bottom 6 player.



That would have to be a hell of a plus. A big enough plus to get back another asset such as Bennett. Like, say you agree to Bennett for 2nd, if it's Zucker for Wood+2nd, then that's something to consider. But Wood as the main piece back...woof. Straight up, I would vomit. Wood has decent value but not top 6, 30g scorer capable value. I think McCann would do it value wise but I don't see why NJ would do it.



Unless he asks. I could see a scenario where he extends 3 years but is traded to Florida after Letang is traded and Sid elects no to stay for a rebuild.

I was thinking a 2nd too.
Wood, 2nd for Zucker.
2nd for Bennett.
Dumoulin, McCann for Getzlaf @75%, Deslauriers

Guentzel Crosby Rust
Getzlaf Malkin Kapanen
Wood Bennett Deslauriers
Aston-Reese Blueger Tanev
Sceviour

Pettersson Letang
Matheson Marino
Joseph Ceci
Riikola Ruhwedel

Jarry
DeSmith

 

[HandshakeLine]

Getzlaf has mange.

 

[Ginormousthumbs]

So if it doesn't matter who plays with Malkin with respect to whether Malkin plays well or not, just play Sceviour and Lafferty with him.

Sure why not.

 

[Ginormousthumbs]

Maybe not short term but there’s no short term Stanley Cup.

Zucker would fit in the bottom 6 but that’s a lot of cap given our situation. Plus we don’t have anyone realistically to swap Zucker with internally to go to Malkin’s line to accommodate that.

I don’t know what they’re going to do with Zucker or L2 but it might be time to move on from Malkin. If that’s not an option, then move him to wing or something.

 

[66-30-33]

Getting Wood would have been good when he didn't have much value, now he's got a lot of value and we would have to pay for that. I'll pass on him now.

 

[dogthateats]

 

[HandshakeLine]

Not the David Warsofsky of WB/S fame?

 

[The Grim Reaper]

That’s 0.11 PPG with the Pens David Warsofsky to you.

 

[66-30-33]

Sheesh, Galchenyuk making his way back to Montreal I guess? next stop Montreal.

 

[KIRK]

I don’t know what they’re going to do with Zucker or L2 but it might be time to move on from Malkin. If that’s not an option, then move him to wing or something.

I might separate Malkin and Zucker and see what happens before moving on from Malkin, sort of like when faced with a car with a flat tire, I'd fix a flat tire before trading in the car.

That said, if you think the answer to a flat tire is to trade in the car as a first resort, you're certainly entitled to that opinion.

 

[KIRK]

Sheesh, Galchenyuk making his way back to Montreal I guess? next stop Montreal.

What's the record for number of teams on which a player has played in the same year?

 

[KIRK]

I agree with what you said Kirk. I do think that it's on Malkin to work it out, but obviously you need to help him doing it. Longer term, the obvious move for me would be switching the wingers as many have suggested, however I also understand why you wouldn't want to do that right now as L1 has been fire. I just don't think there is a trade out there that involves Zucker that makes us better right away, as I like the player in general. If it's just about finding a better fit for Malkin, then that really puts all the eggs in the Malkin isn't the problem but his line is basket. And before doing that, I think it would be way more beneficial for the team to try and switch the wingers again first. Because production wise Malkin really is the only one on L2 that suffers from this line which makes me wonder if it might be on Malkin as well. Yes Zucker is the constant, but Zucker also constantly produced despite that at his expected rate, while Malkin did not.

An in season trade to find a winger that clicks better with Geno is insanely difficult in my opinion. You need to find the right player, get him, and then be lucky enough for them to find chemistry right away. So if you come to the conclusion that one of them needs to go, I think it's mostly doable in the offseason. Until then Geno has to somewhat figure it out and just find his game again. As I said, you can obviously help him and switch the wingers around, but he has to be better as well. Because I think with the 4 wingers and 2 centers we have, there are certain combinations that will give us a very good top 6. It's not like with Brassard where we knew he either had to be #3c or there is no room for him.

And to be clear, if you come to the conclusion that you don't want both players on your roster starting next season, then Zucker is the obvious one to move. I want Geno to retire as a Penguin and see his jersey go up there right after.

I think I would rather have Sid and Geno retire Penguins as winning a 4th cup and moving them

Whether or not there's a trade that involves Zucker that makes the Pens a better team, removing him from L2 is addition by subtraction.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I might separate Malkin and Zucker and see what happens before moving on from Malkin, sort of like when faced with a car with a flat tire, I'd fix a flat tire before trading in the car.

That said, if you think the answer to a flat tire is to trade in the car as a first resort, you're certainly entitled to that opinion.

Malkin is my favorite Pen, but I’ve been warming to the idea of a trade over the past couple of years. Having said that, I’d ask for a slight ransom and only trade him if offered something great (which isn’t likely).