Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap: The Trades We'd Make Before The Play Offs

[MayorofWBS]

Who are the teams that would be interested in Murray?

 

[dogthateats]

No they haven't. The only starting goalies that have been cheaply acquired were cheaply acquired before they were starters.

That’s what I meant by backups. If I were a GM I would rather take a chance on a backup than on a not so good starter. Without researching, it seems like either player has a good of chance panning out as a starter and the backup is considerably cheaper. Guys like Dubnyk, Kuemper, etc

 

[Empoleon8771]

Byfield is a tremendous skater and that’s why he has been compared to Malkin. Not really sure @Empoleon8771 came up with that one.

Then what is Byfield's problem, then? I thought I read skating was a concern with him, so I understood why there was some hesitation with him. But if he's not a bad skater, why is anyone concerned about Byfield? He's a guy who put up dominating numbers in juniors that can apparently skate well, what's the issue there?

Then let him get it in arbitration and trade him at the next TDL. I see no real need to over pay for either ‘tender this year.

They should just trade Murray and stop beating around the bush, to be honest. It shouldn't even get to arbitration, just rip the band-aid off and get it over with.

I don't know that they'll do that, though.

I’d go 2x5 for both even.

I think this one is more likely to work for Murray, but I'm still not sure he'll want to eat UFA years. I also think you can get Jarry for cheaper if you're only going 2 years.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That’s what I meant by backups. If I were a GM I would rather take a chance on a backup than on a not so good starter. Without researching, it seems like either player has a good of chance panning out as a starter and the backup is considerably cheaper. Guys like Dubnyk, Kuemper, etc

Oh okay that makes sense, then.

I do think there are some goalies in that mold that can be acquired this off-season. Jake Allen is a prime one, I think he can be acquired for like a 3rd or 4th. I can definitely see the argument for going for Allen over trading a lot more for Murray, so I can agree with that.

Who are the teams that would be interested in Murray?

Detroit, Ottawa, Toronto if they lose to the Jackets, San Jose if they can make the money work, Calgary, Buffalo, Minnesota and Carolina all seem like potential fits. Detroit, Ottawa and San Jose seem the most likely.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Honestly, Emp, who knows? But I think the worst outcome would be either JR re-signing Murray to a large deal out of pressure to seem proactive or trading him for whatever only to see Sullivan or himself fired and the new coach not wanting whatever the return would be.

 

[Gurglesons]

Then what is Byfield's problem, then? I thought I read skating was a concern with him, so I understood why there was some hesitation with him. But if he's not a bad skater, why is anyone concerned about Byfield? He's a guy who put up dominating numbers in juniors that can apparently skate well, what's the issue there?



They should just trade Murray and stop beating around the bush, to be honest. It shouldn't even get to arbitration, just rip the band-aid off and get it over with.

I don't know that they'll do that, though.



I think this one is more likely to work for Murray, but I'm still not sure he'll want to eat UFA years. I also think you can get Jarry for cheaper if you're only going 2 years.

Tbh his age and his race IMO. I think from everything I’ve seen of him he is a slam dunk.

 

[Peat]

Then I'm confused for why he's not a shoe-in at #2 and I've read people being concerned with him

I always thought those concerns were due to his skating, because I thought I read that he was only an okay skater. If that's not the case, I'm not exactly sure why people are concerned with him. Are they concerned he's just dominating juniors because of his size?

I mean, you probably have read it. The variance in opinions is wild to me. But I don't think it is.

As for why Stutzle has slid ahead... well, tbf, that's contentious. Remember, McKenzie said 5 scouts had Byfield 2nd and 5 had Stutzle. The argument for Stutzle I think is one of hockey IQ; that Stutzle makes the right calls more reliably than Byfield.

As best I see it, I'd say Lafreniere is in a tier one alone due to his extremely high floor and the very good probability he hits his ceiling; Stutzle and Byfield are behind because their floors aren't as high and their ceilings aren't as certain but they could be just as good or better than Lafreniere; and after that you get into the rest, guys with more question marks and probably lower ceilings too.

 

[EVGENIMERLIN]

Murray is a valuable tradeable asset and a luxury with how Jarry (An All-Star season BTW) performed. You move Murray for things we need

 

[Jacob]

Byfield had a “bad” WJC. For a lot of people that’s probably the only time they’ve seen him.

Really though for his age just being on the team is a huge deal but some don’t get that. They see Lafreniere (older, 2nd tournament) dominate and Byfield not and think there’s more of a drop off between the two than there actually is.

 

[MayorofWBS]

Oh okay that makes sense, then.

I do think there are some goalies in that mold that can be acquired this off-season. Jake Allen is a prime one, I think he can be acquired for like a 3rd or 4th. I can definitely see the argument for going for Allen over trading a lot more for Murray, so I can agree with that.

Detroit, Ottawa, Toronto if they lose to the Jackets, San Jose if they can make the money work, Calgary, Buffalo, Minnesota and Carolina all seem like potential fits. Detroit, Ottawa and San Jose seem the most likely.

Ugh...not alot of good matches for us.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I've thrown this idea out before, but I wonder if the Penguins just do Murray to Minnesota for their 1st back. Minnesota had to go with Stalock in the playoffs because of how far Dubnyk has fallen off, and he didn't really do anything to suggest he should keep the role next year (.897 save% in the playoffs).

The Wild have $17 million in cap space with only Greenway and Kunin to re-sign and basically a full roster, and that's with keeping Dubnyk for next year. Dubnyk only has 1 year left on his deal, so they probably have the money to run with Murray-Dubnyk for next year and then let Dubnyk walk after next year.

 

[Jacob]

I've thrown this idea out before, but I wonder if the Penguins just do Murray to Minnesota for their 1st back. Minnesota had to go with Stalock in the playoffs because of how far Dubnyk has fallen off, and he didn't really do anything to suggest he should keep the role next year (.897 save% in the playoffs).

The Wild have $17 million in cap space with only Greenway and Kunin to re-sign and basically a full roster, and that's with keeping Dubnyk for next year. Dubnyk only has 1 year left on his deal, so they probably have the money to run with Murray-Dubnyk for next year and then let Dubnyk walk after next year.

I like it.

 

[The Old Master]

Tbh his age and his race IMO. I think from everything I’ve seen of him he is a slam dunk.

nah! when your talking the the top ten picks, every little thing is blown way out of proportion. and you would need to be a racist to even bring that up.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

Murray will go for mid round pick and a prospect. Anyone wanting more will be disappointed.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Murray will go for mid round pick and a prospect. Anyone wanting more will be disappointed.

There are legitimately 0 trades in the last decade that suggests this is the case.

What precedent is out there for a starting goalie going for that little? The absolute minimum return I can find for a starting goalie was Mike Smith, who brought back Hickey (3rd round decent prospect) and a conditional 2nd based on making the playoffs. And that was a 35 year old Mike Smith going for that.

 

[MayorofWBS]

I've thrown this idea out before, but I wonder if the Penguins just do Murray to Minnesota for their 1st back. Minnesota had to go with Stalock in the playoffs because of how far Dubnyk has fallen off, and he didn't really do anything to suggest he should keep the role next year (.897 save% in the playoffs).

The Wild have $17 million in cap space with only Greenway and Kunin to re-sign and basically a full roster, and that's with keeping Dubnyk for next year. Dubnyk only has 1 year left on his deal, so they probably have the money to run with Murray-Dubnyk for next year and then let Dubnyk walk after next year.

I'd be down for this. Would include McCann if necessary for a + from Minny.

Of course we would love to give Billy back his slightly used ZAR too

 

[Peat]

I've thrown this idea out before, but I wonder if the Penguins just do Murray to Minnesota for their 1st back. Minnesota had to go with Stalock in the playoffs because of how far Dubnyk has fallen off, and he didn't really do anything to suggest he should keep the role next year (.897 save% in the playoffs).

The Wild have $17 million in cap space with only Greenway and Kunin to re-sign and basically a full roster, and that's with keeping Dubnyk for next year. Dubnyk only has 1 year left on his deal, so they probably have the money to run with Murray-Dubnyk for next year and then let Dubnyk walk after next year.

Their main prospect got AHL goalie of the year. I don't know how much that will play into their thinking but it might be there. But I can see that if there's still money (and the 1st) around after getting the best C they can.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Their main prospect got AHL goalie of the year. I don't know how much that will play into their thinking but it might be there. But I can see that if there's still money (and the 1st) around after getting the best C they can.

Yeah, Kahkonen is definitely a good point to mention. I could see them wanting to see what they have out of Kahkonen before deciding to trade for Murray, especially considering Kahkonen is eligible for the expansion draft.

But at the same point, I think there are just a lot of good goalie prospects all throughout the NHL, so if every team with a good goalie prospect didn't trade for a starting goalie because of that prospect, starting goalies wouldn't be traded. Nedeljkovic is an example of that, Hurricanes fans said they wouldn't trade a 2nd for Jarry last off-season because they had Nedeljkovic winning AHL goalie of the year in 2018-2019. He then put up only a .906 save% in the AHL this year.

 

[Terrapin]

I've thrown this idea out before, but I wonder if the Penguins just do Murray to Minnesota for their 1st back. Minnesota had to go with Stalock in the playoffs because of how far Dubnyk has fallen off, and he didn't really do anything to suggest he should keep the role next year (.897 save% in the playoffs).

The Wild have $17 million in cap space with only Greenway and Kunin to re-sign and basically a full roster, and that's with keeping Dubnyk for next year. Dubnyk only has 1 year left on his deal, so they probably have the money to run with Murray-Dubnyk for next year and then let Dubnyk walk after next year.

What pick do they have? A recent 2 time SC winning goalie better at least bring a top 5 pick

 

[EVGENIMERLIN]

I've thrown this idea out before, but I wonder if the Penguins just do Murray to Minnesota for their 1st back. Minnesota had to go with Stalock in the playoffs because of how far Dubnyk has fallen off, and he didn't really do anything to suggest he should keep the role next year (.897 save% in the playoffs).

The Wild have $17 million in cap space with only Greenway and Kunin to re-sign and basically a full roster, and that's with keeping Dubnyk for next year. Dubnyk only has 1 year left on his deal, so they probably have the money to run with Murray-Dubnyk for next year and then let Dubnyk walk after next year.

What about Murray and Bjug for our first and Addison back?

 

[EVGENIMERLIN]

Yeah, Kahkonen is definitely a good point to mention. I could see them wanting to see what they have out of Kahkonen before deciding to trade for Murray, especially considering Kahkonen is eligible for the expansion draft.

But at the same point, I think there are just a lot of good goalie prospects all throughout the NHL, so if every team with a good goalie prospect didn't trade for a starting goalie because of that prospect, starting goalies wouldn't be traded. Nedeljkovic is an example of that, Hurricanes fans said they wouldn't trade a 2nd for Jarry last off-season because they had Nedeljkovic winning AHL goalie of the year in 2018-2019. He then put up only a .906 save% in the AHL this year.

Good points granted, they could always move Murray at the Deadline or keep him know Duybs is gone and give this kid Kahkonen more time in the AHL/playing back up and learning in the NHL

 

[dogthateats]

It’s weird to me that Florida drafted Knight and signed Bob

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I thought he was a LW who could play center, in a similar mold to what Guentzel is. That may not be right, but I always thought he was a LW/C.

Either way, I just read that apparently the Kings are leaning towards taking Stutzle at #2. Stutzle is a huge reason I'd be willing to entertain that trade, Byfield doesn't do it for me like Stutzle does. Sure, Byfield may be another Dubois caliber player, but I've seen way too many big center prospects with skating issues fail in the pros. Same reason I'm not crazy about the idea of Murray to Ottawa for Logan Brown.

Lafreniere doesn't play center.

Then what is Byfield's problem, then? I thought I read skating was a concern with him, so I understood why there was some hesitation with him. But if he's not a bad skater, why is anyone concerned about Byfield? He's a guy who put up dominating numbers in juniors that can apparently skate well, what's the issue there?

Byfield's problem is consistency. He's got all the tools (shooting, passing, skating, size) to be a dominant center, but hasn't put it all together consistently enough.

Skating isn't an issue at all for him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Byfield's problem is consistency. He's got all the tools (shooting, passing, skating, size) to be a dominant center, but hasn't put it all together consistently enough.

Skating isn't an issue at all for him.

So the crap Byfield gets is bullshit, then? Criticizing a player with those kind of tools and that kind of production for "consistency" just sounds like trying to find reasons to criticize him. Dunno, if something like skating or hockey IQ isn't an issue with him, I genuinely don't see how he's not the clear #2 pick in this draft.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

So the crap Byfield gets is bullshit, then? Criticizing a player with those kind of tools and that kind of production for "consistency" just sounds like trying to find reasons to criticize him. Dunno, if something like skating or hockey IQ isn't an issue with him, I genuinely don't see how he's not the clear #2 pick in this draft.

I guess the concern is you could get someone who eventually figures it out like Ryan Getzlaf, or you get a guy like Ryan Johansen who always seems to leave you wanting more because he couldn't quite figure out how to be at his best every single night.

Although speaking of hockey IQ, I think that's also a concern with him. Not that he's got *bad* hockey IQ, but that he'll be a guy who has average hockey IQ that depends on his physical gifts to excel. Whereas a guy like Lafreniere's hockey IQ is one of his strengths.