Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap: The Trades We'd Make Before The Play Offs

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Goalie_Bob

1992 Vezina (2nd)
Dec 30, 2005
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How much do people think Murray gets as an RFA award?

I’m thinkin after the past few seasons it won’t be much more than he is making now. Around 4.5 mil. If so, then I would keep him unless a team wants to bowl the Pens over.
 

Malkinstheman

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Aug 12, 2012
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Could EDM be a target for Murray? Youd have to take Koskinen back who has 4.5x2 left. Go with Koskinen/Jarry next year and then dump him a year later if you need the cap. I haven seen much much of Koskinen so I dont know if his contract is really bad value.
 

Jaded-Fan

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Mar 18, 2004
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Nah. The ship has sailed on Murray. Not 100% on it, but as with Phil, I suspect they've crossed the proverbial 'stay or go' rubicon with Murray. Just the way it's going to be . . .

They'll either go with CDS or find a vet to partner with and mentor Jarry.

I wasn't talking about keeping him. He is a RFA next year. Anything over $2 million and you get a second compensation anyways.

So better to keep him and use him as expansion bait and playoff insurance if you can't get better than that second.
 

MayorofWBS

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Apr 14, 2015
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It's not going to be a playoff team that jumps at Murray, not unless it's a split goal scenario and the trade and contract prices are cheap.

Buffalo, Detroit, Ottawa, and yeah MAYBE New Jersey would be my guesses.

Ottawa has plenty of picks -> 4 second rounders and 2 third rounds (in addition to the 3 first round picks which I'm assuming will be off the table). Plus 3 second rounds in 2021.

Can't image UFAs towards the end of their careers wanting to hitch to Ottawa....but there is also so many Goalie spot open.
 

Peat

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Jun 14, 2016
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That's fair.

I just don't think that after this season anyone is ponying up a 1st, even a late 1st, for Murray.

I dunno. Like, obviously bad season overall, but to use Empo's favourite example, Andersen got a late 1st and 2nd despite not really having much of a starter's record. His Goals Saved Above Average per 60 the two seasons before? 0.04. Matt Murray's score for the same stat for the last two seasons? 0.04. Now obviously Andersen had the good grace to have his better season before the trade and Murray didn't, but it's a good reminder that overall Murray is still roughly an average goalie, and that teams do like to trade expensively for average goalies that they think are starters. Whether that'll apply this season with everyone I don't know but...

Holtby, Crawford, and Lehner are free agents, as are Greiss and Talbot (who's having a good playoffs now).

Gotta also figure the Rangers are trading a goalie.

I can see a 2nd or a 2nd and a prospect or a 3rd for Murray and a cap dump, but with it being a buyers market due to the flat cap and number of available goalies, I just can't see a first (although obviously I'd be happy to be wrong).

Holtby is tanking his value in ways Murray could barely dream. These are famous last words but if he continues on his current arc, he shouldn't be a priority target for anyone.

Crawford probably stays in Chicago. Talbot's had a fine season as a back-up who's stolen the net for the playoffs but I struggle to imagine anyone being happy to anoint him as a starter. Ditto Greiss and a bunch of others.

Now, I do think there's maybe a few done the starter role goalies who might become available through trade - one of Arizona's, Jake Allen, one of Carolina's - but those are no certs (and many have warts themselves). The only real certain starters are Lehner and Markstrom (been a while since Lehner was a true starter also), but what happens after them?

I'm not sure how other GMs are going to view Murray in the midst of all that but I think the goalie market might be shaping up to be full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Is it possible Murray gets a standard price if two-three other GMs both think this season was an aberration that Murray had mostly conquered by the end and he'll find his consistency away from being Fleury's heir in Pittsburgh?

I'm not betting on it but I can see it. I suspect a more likely scenario is a decent return involving an expensive roster player; there's going to be a lot of shuffling cap around this summer.

Wouldn't be a mid-first though, Not even from Guerin.
 

orby

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I would be pretty surprised to see Murray NOT get traded. They benched him for an elimination game. I don't see the team and Murray kissing and making up for next year, especially with expansion looming.
 

EightyOne

My posts are jokes. And hockey is just a game.
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What's a reasonable trade price for Murray? Can't see it being much more than a 2nd at this point (again, hope I'm wrong, but it's a big time buyer's market).

Most likely. If he were already on a longer term good deal, maybe higher, but 2-3....it is where goalies, alone, tend to top out.
 

Jules Winnfield

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Mar 19, 2010
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I like Byfield a lot as a prospect. It’s really uncanny but you can mistake him for Geno the way he skates and comes in with force. He’s an underrated playmaker.

I think the clear cut #2 issue is more because Stutzle really came on this year and opened some eyes.
 

Jules Winnfield

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Mar 19, 2010
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That's fair.

I just don't think that after this season anyone is ponying up a 1st, even a late 1st, for Murray.

logic says yes but there are a handful of dumb GMs out there that overvalue the past work of players and think that’s what they will get. It could happen with Murray. Murray’s biggest issue is himself.

Plus it doesn’t hurt wherever he goes he won’t have Johnson and Schultz in front of him.
 

Doogle

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Jun 8, 2010
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New Jersey could use a goalie, and we could use a right wing who can play the left wall on the power play. I'd imagine we'd have to add to it but Murray+ for Palmieri could work. Palmieri is 29 and only has one year left so NJ might be willing to trade him to get younger. For us he fills a need until Poulin is ready, and his cap hit is less than 5 mil so we could actually afford him.
 

Jacob

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Feb 27, 2002
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I like Byfield a lot as a prospect. It’s really uncanny but you can mistake him for Geno the way he skates and comes in with force. He’s an underrated playmaker.

I think the clear cut #2 issue is more because Stutzle really came on this year and opened some eyes.
He does look a lot like him, even does that galloping-with-the-puck thing that Geno does. Both through the neutral zone and circling the offensive zone.
 

Jacob

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Probably not feasible but what about something revolving around Murray for Bertuzzi? We’d have to add something.
 

Randy Butternubs

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Assuming they lose the lottery:

1. McCann to Buffalo for Montour, re-sign Montour for 3 years at $3.5 million AAV
2. Murray and JJ (with salary retained to make it work) to Ottawa for Brown and Nilsson, re-sign Brown for 4 years at $3.5 million AAV
3. Hornqvist to Nashville for Sissons
4. Bjugstad to Edmonton for Russell (this deal is to solely give POJ more time before rushing him into the NHL)
5. Re-sign Sheary for 2 years at $2.5 million (if you can come up with a better playmaking 3rd line RW, I'm all ears but I can't think of anyone), Simon for 1 year at $1 million, Lafferty for 2 years at $800k and Jarry for 2 years at $2.5 million

Guentel-Crosby-Brown
Zucker-Malkin-Rust
Poulin-Blueger-Sheary
ZAR-Sissons-Tanev
Lafferty-Simon

Dumoulin-Marino
Pettersson-Letang
Russell-Montour
Ruhwedel

Jarry-Nilsson

This lineup falls at $79.1 million plus whatever money you're retaining on JJ. You can cut some money here by trying to get someone cheaper than Russell in a swap for Bjugstad, paying more to not retain on JJ, signing a different playmaking winger than Sheary for less money or trying to flip Nilsson to someone else.

1. Yes, please. But I don't think Montour signs for that cheap. I've got him around $4.5m.
2. Maybe? And I think Brown gets slightly more than that.
3. Nashville, based on HFB, doesn't want Horny back unless they come out with cap space.
4. Yeah, he's a bit better than JJ. Fits the "battle" that some people want to see. And can play both sides. I'm not opposed.
5. Sure.

My drunk ArmchairGM:

1. McCann for Montour. Montour signs for 3 years at $4.5m
2. Letang and Legare for Cam Fowler. This is THE shake up trade. Anaheim does this to get out of a longer term contract and to clear cap space in the near future.
3. JJ with 20% retained to whoever.
4. Buyout Bjugstad, even though I know the Pens don't do this but I'm drunk so whatev.
5. Murray to Toronto for Zach Hyman and a 2020 2nd.
6. The Hurricanes sign Lehner and need to get rid of a goalie. The Pens acquire Reimer for 50% for Riikola and that Toronto 2nd.
7. Re-sign the following: Simon for a year at $1.5m; Lafferty, Angello, and Miletic for two years at $750k; Jarry for 2 years at $2.25m
8. Sign these UFAs: Erik Haula for 5 years at $4.5m; Jon Merrill for 2 years at $2.5m (he can play both sides)

Zucker-Crosby-Hyman
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
Simon-Haula-Hornqvist
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev
Lafferty

Dumoulin-Marino
Fowler-Merrill
Pettersson-Montour
Ruhwedel

Jarry-Reimer

That leaves $174k in space.

You could afford a 23rd roster player if you don't buyout Bjugstad or retain on JJ. POJ to be called up when injuries occur.

BTW, I asked the Detroit board if they'd be up for a Bowey and Riikola swap. The only response I got was "yes".
 

Gurglesons

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Dec 18, 2009
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How much do people think Murray gets as an RFA award?

I’m thinkin after the past few seasons it won’t be much more than he is making now. Around 4.5 mil. If so, then I would keep him unless a team wants to bowl the Pens over.

He’s probably firmly placed himself in the 5 mil range with his play this season.

He’s probably following the Niemi career path. Will provide a decent enough option to a fringe contender like Calgary.
 

Jaded-Fan

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Mar 18, 2004
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I don’t understand what you are insinuatin. But I think given the way this league runs using an offer sheet this offseason is going to be viewed very negatively.

If the Pens low balled MM, say $3 Million or even $2.5 million, as a RFA, what leverage does he have? I admit not being very familiar with the process, but worse case an offer from another team, right?

Or do I have it all wrong?

Edit: Just looked it up, need to offer 100 percent of salary.
 

billybudd

Registered User
Feb 1, 2012
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There is no way I would ever call Letang blatantly overpaid. There was that ridiculous thread on the main board for who has produced most points since 2010...Letang was tied for 2nd with Burns. I think people want to be mad, but this weird dislike for Letang is ridiculous to me.

I think we have a solid 3 - Marino, Letang, and Dumoulin.
Then we have some pieces we can get rid of, then ones that are cheap options that the team could hang on to.

Yeah, I'm not calling Letang overpaid. Just saying that the market for rd that can score is so warped that buyers can't be choosers--and certainly Letang, whatever problems he could be argued to have, isn't scaring away anyone.

That said, I'll reiterate that trading him is a bad idea. "Find a guy in free agency" is not a plan. That's how you end up paying $8 million a year to Keith Yandle or Bryan Campbell.
 
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The Greatest 101

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Dec 10, 2013
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Byfield's one of the youngest in the draft. Has a mid-August birthday. He's still 17.

I do think there is some basis due to race. Laf is one of the older kids. Not surprised he did better in tourneys.
Maybe race plays a role here. The more I watch him, the more I think he will be better than Eichel and Matthews. Really not sure what the concern is with him. Looks like a slam dunk pick to me.
 

billybudd

Registered User
Feb 1, 2012
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Addition by substraction? Of course you don't stand pat on defense after trading Letang for a forward. You either sign a free agent defenseman or get one included in a deal, for say Murray. The whole idea of trading Letang is to shake up this roster and the country club mentality which is handcuffing the team. Letang gone would do wonders in the dressing room, other players would be forced to take on bigger roles and more ice time and I don't see that as a problem.

I'm sorry, but the red is not realistic and the bolded is all in your head.

Nobody's giving you a quality D for Matt Murray after what he's looked like for 2-ish years now, and any UFA who could replace Letang's functions would be a) more expensive, b) worse or c) both (not to mention that the demand for this type of player is so much higher than the supply, the odds are that he would choose another team in UFA, anyway).

And whatever Sullivan does or doesn't do wrong, he's not running a country club. The Penguins don't have the look of a team that doesn't care because they're not being yelled at enough. They have the look of a team that's not good enough. A team built for speed that doesn't have fresh enough legs to outspeed the other team. A team with players whose games have fallen apart with age (Schultz, Murray, Johnson). It's not that this second group isn't trying because life is too easy (Johnson's life certainly isn't)--they're just not good now.

Idea that players aren't taking things seriously enough might apply to certain teams occasionally, but I don't understand why anyone would look at this team and think that.
 
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