Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap: The Trades We'd Make Before The Play Offs

[T1K]

If Lafreniere says he won't have a problem playing RW, I agree. If Lafreniere played a huge position of need for the Penguins, this wouldn't even be a discussion.

Can he not play either wing? I was under the impression that was the case. Regardless, he’s a franchise centerpiece type of player, and I’d move plenty of other players on this team to less ideal positions or via trade to accommodate him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

But you picked two extreme examples at that spot. Also, one could argue Pettersson has the same or more upside than Eichel. So you're not really doing a "superior player for 2 players just slightly under him" thing.

It would be closer (albeit an extreme example) if you would pick Marner and Provorov over McDavid in their draft year. One clearly superior (at present time) prospect for two guys who also show elite potential, but not quite on his level. Would you do that?

Lafreniere isn't McDavid though. If the comparison was Eichel vs Marner and either Hanifin or Provorov, I'd pick Marner and the defenseman.

 

[EVGENIMERLIN]

Lol @ the suggestion of trading the 1st pick. If we are gifted Lafreniere, we are absolutely drafting him and slotting him into RW1 with Sid.

He's a LW

 

[Empoleon8771]

Can he not play either wing? I was under the impression that was the case. Regardless, he’s a franchise centerpiece type of player, and I’d move plenty of other players on this team to less ideal positions or via trade to accommodate him.

The only 2 positions I know he plays are LW and C. I can't really see a reason why he wouldn't be able to play RW, I think the best pro comparison I've seen for him is Hossa and Hossa was a LHS on RW, but I just want to be sure he can play RW. If he can, you don't trade the pick.

 

[T1K]

He's a LW

If Biz was a defenseman in junior, and was able to switch to forward, I’m pretty certain Laf could switch to RW if needed.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

All this switching wings talk... hey... I know a guy that can make that happen!

/smugBylsma

 

[Peat]

The only 2 positions I know he plays are LW and C. I can't really see a reason why he wouldn't be able to play RW, I think the best pro comparison I've seen for him is Hossa and Hossa was a LHS on RW, but I just want to be sure he can play RW. If he can, you don't trade the pick.

Where you heard him playing C? Because this is the first I've seen it.

If I thought he was a C this would be a different conversation to me.

 

[T1K]

The only 2 positions I know he plays are LW and C. I can't really see a reason why he wouldn't be able to play RW, I think the best pro comparison I've seen for him is Hossa and Hossa was a LHS on RW, but I just want to be sure he can play RW. If he can, you don't trade the pick.

Agreed, but honestly if we needed to trade Zucker or even Jake to get a top 6 spot for him I would do it. The value of a top 6 contributor on an ELC makes terrible contracts like JJ far more digestible if we needed to bury him in the AHL/as a healthy scratch. As you’ve mentioned, a buy out is unlikely, but we will have a bunch of cap opening up in 3 years once Laf would need a new deal.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Where you heard him playing C? Because this is the first I've seen it.

If I thought he was a C this would be a different conversation to me.

I thought he was a LW who could play center, in a similar mold to what Guentzel is. That may not be right, but I always thought he was a LW/C.

Either way, I just read that apparently the Kings are leaning towards taking Stutzle at #2. Stutzle is a huge reason I'd be willing to entertain that trade, Byfield doesn't do it for me like Stutzle does. Sure, Byfield may be another Dubois caliber player, but I've seen way too many big center prospects with skating issues fail in the pros. Same reason I'm not crazy about the idea of Murray to Ottawa for Logan Brown.

 

[T1K]

What’s the best offer we get for Murray at this point, a 2nd rounder?

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Can he not play either wing? I was under the impression that was the case. Regardless, he’s a franchise centerpiece type of player, and I’d move plenty of other players on this team to less ideal positions or via trade to accommodate him.

I don’t understand what the big deal is. This is a moot point. Guentzel has played the right side and done well at it before.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What’s the best offer we get for Murray at this point, a 2nd rounder?

More than that. The best case scenario with a Murray return is a pick around #30 overall and another 2nd round pick. Goalie values have been really consistent for years, the idea that starting goalies are cheap to acquire isn't based on anything. Murray's value is right on par with Andersen, who brought back pick #30 and a late 2nd, and Lehner, who brought back pick #21.

I don’t understand what the big deal is. This is a moot point. Guentzel has played the right side and done well at it before.

I don't agree with this at all. I thought Guentzel looked extremely uncomfortable at RW when he played there with McCann on LW.

 

[CallArnoldSlick]

I think scouting and developing is way better today than it was in 2010, though. It's also way too early to say guys from the 2017-2019 drafts didn't hit their potential. The Penguins would be getting a bad draw if only one of those two prospects hit, that's not the most likely outcome. The most likely outcome is that the Penguins get 2 top-6 forwards or top-4 D out of the picks.

History tells us that is the most likely outcome though. How many drafts have the 3 and 5 picks both panned out with star players in the same year? One in the past dozen years? (I should have mentioned I wasn't including 2019 in my post). As for 2018, do you think Barrett Hayton is on his way to stardom? I'm skeptical of that. Between 2007 through 2016 was 10 straight drafts of it not working out. And like I posted in the draft thread, those picks are almost never as good as forwards taken first overall, regardless of how they pan out. I just don't think it's worth it. You don't trade away elite talent like Lafreniere, especially for uncertainty.

 

[dogthateats]

Backup goalies that turn into good 1sts have been acquired rather cheaply though.

 

[HandshakeLine]

What’s the best offer we get for Murray at this point, a 2nd rounder?

I’ll take it, but only if he drives himself to the airport.

 

[Jacob]

I think we should re-sign Murray & Jarry to similar if not identical deals and just roll with them next year. Like 3y x $4m bridge type deals. It’s a nice problem to have and those are still movable contracts, and we still have a year before the expansion draft. We should wait until the last possible minute before handing either the reigns for the next decade or whatever. Spending 8 million at the goaltending position is not out of the norm for competitive teams anyway.

 

[Empoleon8771]

History tells us that is the most likely outcome though. How many drafts have the 3 and 5 picks both panned out with star players in the same year? One in the past dozen years? (I should have mentioned I wasn't including 2019 in my post). As for 2018, do you think Barrett Hayton is on his way to stardom? I'm skeptical of that. Between 2007 through 2016 was 10 straight drafts of it not working out. And like I posted in the draft thread, those picks are almost never as good as forwards taken first overall, regardless of how they pan out. I just don't think it's worth it. You don't trade away elite talent like Lafreniere, especially for uncertainty.

I interpreted your post to mean "one busts and one hits", not "only one hits their upside". If you mean "only one hits their upside", I agree but that's still 2 excellent players.

If you get Marner and Hanifin from those picks, which is Marner hitting his upside and Hanifin missing but still ending up a good player, I think you're better with that than if you got Eichel.

 

[Peat]

I thought he was a LW who could play center, in a similar mold to what Guentzel is. That may not be right, but I always thought he was a LW/C.

Either way, I just read that apparently the Kings are leaning towards taking Stutzle at #2. Stutzle is a huge reason I'd be willing to entertain that trade, Byfield doesn't do it for me like Stutzle does. Sure, Byfield may be another Dubois caliber player, but I've seen way too many big center prospects with skating issues fail in the pros. Same reason I'm not crazy about the idea of Murray to Ottawa for Logan Brown.

I don't think Byfield has skating issues, both from video and from reading guys really breaking him down. He can move. He slouches, but that shouldn't be an issue with practice. I'd prefer Stutzle if it came to it but not because of Byfield's skating.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Backup goalies that turn into good 1sts have been acquired rather cheaply though.

No they haven't. The only starting goalies that have been cheaply acquired were cheaply acquired before they were starters.

The minimum return for a backup goalies being traded for as a starter is Cam Talbot, who brought back a 2nd and 3rd. Most of the time, it falls in the 2 2nds or late 1st area. That's the value guys like Grubauer (Orpik's value was a negative 2nd), Bernier, Jones, Andersen and Lehner brought back.

I think we should re-sign Murray & Jarry to similar if not identical deals and just roll with them next year. Like 3y x $4m bridge type deals. It’s a nice problem to have and those are still movable contracts, and we still have a year before the expansion draft. We should wait until the last possible minute before handing either the reigns for the next decade or whatever. Spending 8 million at the goaltending position is not out of the norm for competitive teams anyway.

Murray is 1000000% not accepting that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think Byfield has skating issues, both from video and from reading guys really breaking him down. He can move. He slouches, but that shouldn't be an issue with practice. I'd prefer Stutzle if it came to it but not because of Byfield's skating.

Then I'm confused for why he's not a shoe-in at #2 and I've read people being concerned with him

I always thought those concerns were due to his skating, because I thought I read that he was only an okay skater. If that's not the case, I'm not exactly sure why people are concerned with him. Are they concerned he's just dominating juniors because of his size?

 

[HandshakeLine]

If Murray doesn’t like that offer he should try to be less dogshit for stretches then and play like he can when he’s not bewilderingly awful for a good ‘tender.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If Murray doesn’t like that offer he should try to be less dogshit for stretches then and play like he can when he’s not bewilderingly awful for a good ‘tender.

He can get better than that offer through arbitration and it will take him directly to UFA. It's not going to work.

The minimum he's getting is a 1 year deal at $5 million or so because that's what he'd get in arbitration. He's never going to accept a multi-year deal that eats UFA years at such a low salary.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't think Byfield has skating issues, both from video and from reading guys really breaking him down. He can move. He slouches, but that shouldn't be an issue with practice. I'd prefer Stutzle if it came to it but not because of Byfield's skating.

Byfield is a tremendous skater and that’s why he has been compared to Malkin. Not really sure @Empoleon8771 came up with that one.

 

[HandshakeLine]

He can get better than that offer through arbitration and it will take him directly to UFA. It's not going to work.

The minimum he's getting is a 1 year deal at $5 million or so because that's what he'd get in arbitration. He's never going to accept a multi-year deal that eats UFA years at such a low salary.

Then let him get it in arbitration and trade him at the next TDL. I see no real need to over pay for either ‘tender this year.

Or if he rejects the offer or they know he isn’t going to sign, trade him before he goes to arbitration. He’s not the reason for our postseason struggles, but he shouldn’t commend a huge chunk of change more to stay because he’s not been a difference maker in years.

 

[Jacob]

He can get better than that offer through arbitration and it will take him directly to UFA. It's not going to work.

The minimum he's getting is a 1 year deal at $5 million or so because that's what he'd get in arbitration. He's never going to accept a multi-year deal that eats UFA years at such a low salary.

I’d go 2x5 for both even.