Pittsburgh Penguins Prospects Thread

[Gurglesons]

Is Tampa the best development team though? And if so, what have they won recently with all these developed kids? I get what you're saying though, I'm playing devils advocate to help keep things in perspective. He could go on to be Sundqvist, who knows. He could also be DiPauli. Remember how excited we were to get a Rust-like clone? Similar situation as to Pavs and DiPauli hasn't done squat.

Pavs also doesn't have a unique skill set that we can't live without. He's not a speed PMD, a top 6 wing with speed. He's got size. So...we're looking at long shot Bjugstad basically? Sucks but I wouldn't shed any tears over this.

He can skate, has size and showed a solid amount of improvement until this year at PSU.

Having cheap center depth with a unique size and the ability to skate is certainly something this team will want moving forward and if they don't use it in the line-up it always has trade value.

And yes, Tampa is the best development team. Look at their roster.

 

[Gurglesons]

People here poo-poo'd Gusev when I mentioned him. They were full on Sullytards so I can't blame them. I've been guilty of judging prospects that wouldn't make it because they weren't pluggish enough. But I honestly don't get why euro fas would come to the Pens seeing how they aren't given a chance to showcase their talent. It's no wonder of all of them, we got Plots. And even that ended poorly because Sully just had zero patience to give him any sort of shot and it failed on both sides miserably.

I think most of us into Gusev just the cost of him in a trade and to take the contract risk was likely not worth the reward and I'm not sure he really proved us wrong. Turned it up once New Jersey had no aspirations.

 

[SEALBound]

But you don't know that they're not interested in coming. You've got Panarin opting to sign for the reigning SC champs in one of the great cities in the world, and Pavlychev deciding he'd rather take an AHL contract somewhere else - just like Blaine Byron did a few years back - and that's about it. We don't know if we approached any other Russians since Plotnikov, or if a fit hasn't come up.

We do know that Russians routinely sign for organizations that aren't particularly big on Russians though.

This is a bit like exclaiming how fortunate and surprising it is that Radim Zohorna would be willing to come sign for us given how little attention we pay to Czechs in the draft and free agency.

You also have to keep in mind that the market of FAs in other leagues that go unnoticed and become good available players is quite small. Same for the quality Czech players in the draft. We tend to take BPA. It's not like there were some can't miss prospects in the draft we dodged because of where they came from. And when these guys do become available, you have 31 teams looking into it, all with unique things to offer. If I'm thinking of playing in the KHL, I'm thinking Moscow or St. Petersburg...not the other 15 cities I've never heard of. So of course there's going to be bias in their selection.

Same with free agency. What's the last quality Russian or Czech player that's come available at a position of need for us that we could have afforded? It's a very small group. Again, there just aren't that many Russian or Czech players in the league (or in the world that are NHL capable).

And sometimes things just don't click between a player and program. It happens. I saw guys switch out to different units, platoons, and Teams all the damn time for that very reason. We'll be fine. We can survive the loss of Pavs.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Is Tampa the best development team though? And if so, what have they won recently with all these developed kids? I get what you're saying though, I'm playing devils advocate to help keep things in perspective. He could go on to be Sundqvist, who knows. He could also be DiPauli. Remember how excited we were to get a Rust-like clone? Similar situation as to Pavs and DiPauli hasn't done squat.

Pavs also doesn't have a unique skill set that we can't live without. He's not a speed PMD, a top 6 wing with speed. He's got size. So...we're looking at long shot Bjugstad basically? Sucks but I wouldn't shed any tears over this.

People confuse drafting well vs development. Tampa has drafted insanely well under Yzerman. But that pipeline isn't exactly some stellar system.

Point 9 games in Syracuse.
Killorn 54 games in their system.
Vasilievskiy 35 games.
Gourde spent a lot of time in the Sharks and Bolts system.
Johnson about 137 games.
Pacquette 75 games
Cirelli 54 games.
Cernak 80 games.

While that's decent. The real issue people are missing is that Cooper gives youth a shot. He doesn't play some be a f***ing plug first angle. They have talent? He puts them in a spot to succeed and not shaft them with only one option in the top 6 then the 4th line and then pout he had to use them in the first place like a punk ass piece of shit.

Would our pipeline look any different if the Pens system and usage of young players was more of a hospitable environment to succeed if they're high ceiling talent guys that they drafted for that reason without having to be misused and tried with one star player and called failures or benched for shitty defensemen?

 

[SEALBound]

He can skate, has size and showed a solid amount of improvement until this year at PSU.

Having cheap center depth with a unique size and the ability to skate is certainly something this team will want moving forward and if they don't use it in the line-up it always has trade value.

And yes, Tampa is the best development team. Look at their roster.

I don't disagree but again, I think we survive without him. That size is not a notable advantage as much as you think otherwise people would be clawing down the door for Bjugstad. He can skate but he's never had the speed that makes me think he's going to be a difference maker at the NHL level, even as a 3/4C. Those caliber of players are available often.

And I'm looking at Tampa's roster and they have good players...what am I supposed to be ooo'ing and ahhh'ing over. It's certainly not any cups in the last decade. They have as many draft picks on the roster as we do and they have several players they've signed or traded for.

Not sure what I'm supposed to be looking for?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think most of us into Gusev just the cost of him in a trade and to take the contract risk was likely not worth the reward and I'm not sure he really proved us wrong. Turned it up once New Jersey had no aspirations.

I wanted Vadim as well, the way VGK did that kid was brutal. I was hoping for him as a 3c at the time. But they promised him shit, ran out of cap space, used him as a winger instead...they sully'd the shit out of him.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think most of us into Gusev just the cost of him in a trade and to take the contract risk was likely not worth the reward and I'm not sure he really proved us wrong. Turned it up once New Jersey had no aspirations.

I don't think that's a fair assessment at all. NJ has a lot of young offensive talent and for years stifled the crap out of it and recently getting Hughes on top of Hischier they're realizing how stupid they've been and want to foster a more open offensive system. Finally. I suspect Gusev would put up some 60+ stats with a system like that which isn't garbage like it has been for years in NJ.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Why not both?

It’s what we deserve after 2 years of watching JJ.

I'm hoping for Maniscalco, but based on JR's comment, I think it's actually Kiersted. I do think Maniscalco makes more sense from a position POV, but the fact that JR flat out said "we thought he was going back to school another year" after Kiersted said he was going to come back to ND for his senior year makes it a stronger argument for it being him IMO.

I think that argument could work for either, tbh. We don’t know what Maniscalco was saying behind the scenes or what the Pens thought was going on. It could also be neither. Maybe it’s someone under the radar they like.

I think most of us into Gusev just the cost of him in a trade and to take the contract risk was likely not worth the reward and I'm not sure he really proved us wrong. Turned it up once New Jersey had no aspirations.

That and I thought he’d need time to adjust. There’s no guarantee
Sullivan would have handled that well.

 

[Peat]

Pavlychev had size and actually used it for something other than reach, or at least as far as I understood it. A big guy with a willingness to be physical is a rarity here.

Also, just because Tampa doesn't have any cups doesn't mean that its development program is anything other than top notch.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think that argument could work for either, tbh. We don’t know what Maniscalco was saying behind the scenes or what the Pens thought was going on. It could also be neither. Maybe it’s someone under the radar they like.

Yeah, that's a good point. Maniscalco is only a 21 year old rising junior himself, so he could put up a huge season next year and be the top UDFA next year as a 22 year old (which is still young). He could have had that plan, but changed his mind.

I just think that the Kiersted thing lined up really well with what JR has said.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't disagree but again, I think we survive without him. That size is not a notable advantage as much as you think otherwise people would be clawing down the door for Bjugstad. He can skate but he's never had the speed that makes me think he's going to be a difference maker at the NHL level, even as a 3/4C. Those caliber of players are available often.

And I'm looking at Tampa's roster and they have good players...what am I supposed to be ooo'ing and ahhh'ing over. It's certainly not any cups in the last decade. They have as many draft picks on the roster as we do and they have several players they've signed or traded for.

Not sure what I'm supposed to be looking for?

I mean, their entire center depth is drafted in house and is arguably the best in the league.

I would love to have a Bjugstad coming out of college without the injury history added to our prospect system.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Yeah, that's a good point. Maniscalco is only a 21 year old rising junior himself, so he could put up a huge season next year and be the top UDFA next year as a 22 year old (which is still young). He could have had that plan, but changed his mind.

I just think that the Kiersted thing lined up really well with what JR has said.

Kiersted does fit well and I wouldn’t be surprised if it were him.

A lot of these guys with pro aspirations might be leaving early if they’re worried they won’t play for the season.

 

[Peat]

I mean, their entire center depth is drafted in house and is arguably the best in the league.

I would love to have a Bjugstad coming out of college without the injury history added to our prospect system.

Pavlychev has nothing like Bjugstad's speed or hands as best I can tell.

But yeah. Got to give respect to a contender that's rolling, with Stamkos out, a top 6 formed up of 5 home grown players - on 2nd, 2 3rds, a 7th and an undrafted free agent. It's nuts. This org can rightly say it's got a huge amount of its forward prospects, and we still don't have that.

 

[Gurglesons]

Pavlychev has nothing like Bjugstad's speed or hands as best I can tell.

But yeah. Got to give respect to a contender that's rolling, with Stamkos out, a top 6 formed up of 5 home grown players - on 2nd, 2 3rds, a 7th and an undrafted free agent. It's nuts. This org can rightly say it's got a huge amount of its forward prospects, and we still don't have that.

I mean, high end potential for Pavlychev is a 4th liner I was just responding to SEALBound's accusation that we don't like Bjugstad. A lot of that for me is how his career has progressed not necessarily the player. That being said, I don't think its wrong to be disappointed we didn't sign him. I'm not going to turn it into a why the f*** didn't he choose us. It just sucks to see an intriguing depth piece walk to a org that values intriguing depth pieces.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

"This is a player we've followed for the last couple of years, and we like him."

To me, this points to Maniscalco because of the Austin Lemieux connection.

 

[Empoleon8771]

"This is a player we've followed for the last couple of years, and we like him."

To me, this points to Maniscalco because of the Austin Lemieux connection.

That's a good point to mention, but I'd be concerned if the Penguins were wasting scouting dollars to scout Austin Lemieux

 

[Randy Butternubs]

That's a good point to mention, but I'd be concerned if the Penguins were wasting scouting dollars to scout Austin Lemieux

Hopefully it was just Mario watching his son play and noticed Maniscalco. And THEN the scouts were sent.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Pavlychev had size and actually used it for something other than reach, or at least as far as I understood it. A big guy with a willingness to be physical is a rarity here.

Also, just because Tampa doesn't have any cups doesn't mean that its development program is anything other than top notch.

Again, I think you're misunderstanding their development program vs their stellar scouting.

In any case, I think Pavs might end up being a solid 4th line player.

 

[SEALBound]

I mean, high end potential for Pavlychev is a 4th liner I was just responding to SEALBound's accusation that we don't like Bjugstad. A lot of that for me is how his career has progressed not necessarily the player. That being said, I don't think its wrong to be disappointed we didn't sign him. I'm not going to turn it into a why the f*** didn't he choose us. It just sucks to see an intriguing depth piece walk to a org that values intriguing depth pieces.

Okay, I'm lost. And I think you're lost as well. Where did I "accuse" us of not liking Bjugstad? I am so damn confused. What?

 

[SEALBound]

Hopefully it was just Mario watching his son play and noticed Maniscalco. And THEN the scouts were sent.

"Hey Dad...this guy is good. You should check him out!" All it takes is a phone call.

It's not what you know, it's who you know. It's not who you know, it's who you blow.

 

[Peat]

Hopefully it was just Mario watching his son play and noticed Maniscalco. And THEN the scouts were sent.

*stares at Lemieux's development camp invites*

Aye, right.

 

[66-30-33]

"This is a player we've followed for the last couple of years, and we like him."

To me, this points to Maniscalco because of the Austin Lemieux connection.

But we aren't getting Maniscalco, didn't they say he has other teams in mind? probably the normal teams like Toronto, TB, Hawks, NYR, etc.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

"This is a player we've followed for the last couple of years, and we like him."

To me, this points to Maniscalco because of the Austin Lemieux connection.

Or just a player they saw while scouting for other college players they could sign or draft as overagers.

 

[Your Boy Troy]

It is unfortunate that Pavlychev signed elsewhere. That being said, there is a player that is bigger, younger, and perhaps even better in Curtis Douglas. His rights were not retained by Dallas due to some budget complications in relation to Covid-19.

I don’t think he will ever be an established NHL player, but he has intriguing facets of his game that might allow him to stick in a specialized role. He has come a long way in his development.

The first time I have ever seen him play, I thought he looked completely out of place with the Colts. Since then, he has steadily improved his production and overall game. He is still a project; granted, perhaps one that is worth an ELC or a late round draft pick.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Everyone is zohorna for size. Buncha size Queen's.