Rumor: Pierre McGuire hints at Brassard Trade

[Gurglesons]

Oleksiak and Schultz are extremely different players. Schultz has always, always been significantly better. There is no way Oleksiak ever becomes Schultz half a decade into his pro-career, never being good enough to play a full pro season. Schultz was better in college/junior, better in the AHL and significantly better in the NHL. Schultz had a breakout/contract year at 26/27 years old. Oleksiak turns 26 in December and has yet to play a real full season in any significant role. I really wish people would stop pretending he’s this untapped prospect when he’s a guy who’s absolute ceiling (that he probably won’t reach) is decent #5.

I think his peak could be Schultz prior to the Penguins which isn’t bad.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think Oleksiak could carve out a career sorta like Ian Cole. A solid #4-5 guy. He's got the raw tools and had some games last year where he made a significant impact. Towering defensemen can take longer to develop too...Chara didn't start looking like Chara 'til he was 25.

 

[mpp9]

Oleksiak seems like a guy living off of hype/pedigree and now reclamation project toy status.

He doesn’t seem to read the play too well. He skates well enough but only for a big guy. He doesn’t have great offensive ability either.

He seemed like a nice get at a low cost since we lacked a bigger D-man. But with JJ here potentially making
3 mil to play as a #5, I’m not paying Oleksiak much more than a mil. He’s a 6/7 D-man.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

We shouldn't discount that Oleksiak can take care of business out there too. I loved watching Simmonds try to start some shit with Big Rig and then re-thinking his priorities.

 

[Pens x]

Oleksiak seems like a guy living off of hype/pedigree and now reclamation project toy status.

He doesn’t seem to read the play too well. He skates well enough but only for a big guy. He doesn’t have great offensive ability either.

He seemed like a nice get at a low cost since we lacked a bigger D-man. But with JJ here potentially making
3 mil to play as a #5, I’m not paying Oleksiak much more than a mil. He’s a 6/7 D-man.

Agreed. Our defenses is already terribly overpaid overall. We have something like $24 mill invested in 5 dmen. All of these guys have big ol warts one way or the other.
We don’t have much cap space even before we sign Oleksiak.

 

[Turin]

I think Oleksiak could carve out a career sorta like Ian Cole. A solid #4-5 guy. He's got the raw tools and had some games last year where he made a significant impact. Towering defensemen can take longer to develop too...Chara didn't start looking like Chara 'til he was 25.

There’s only been one Chara. Oleksiak’s problem isn’t that he’s awkward or misused it’s that he’s dumb, and most dumb players don’t go on to undumb themselves no matter who teaches them. Tyler Myers who is big has been decent from day one might not have improved in any meaninglful sense since his first couple games.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

There’s only been one Chara. Oleksiak’s problem isn’t that he’s awkward or misused it’s that he’s dumb, and most dumb players don’t go on to undumb themselves no matter who teaches them. Tyler Myers who is big has been decent from day one might not have improved in any meaninglful sense since his first couple games.

Nobody's saying Oleksiak will be Chara, or that there aren't exceptions to the rule of bigger players taking longer to develop. But that's generally the case, so being patient and seeing what Gonch can wrench out of him seems like the best course if he doesn't cost too much. I liked what I saw last year.

 

[JTG]

If he becomes a steady bottom pair D man I’d be happy. I don’t see him ever becoming a regular top 4 D man but he doesn’t need to be to be successful here either.

This year will determine where he has potential to go. I think he absolutely has the tools to become a top 4 defenseman. There are few guys in the league as big as him that can skate like he can. He also has a very good shot and some offensive skill. Whole lot of tools but no organization. Him playing bottom pair mins here and working out the kinks in his game will be huge. Oleksiak is one of those defensemen that a team finds that way outplays his role and contract and he becomes a difference maker on a roster. I'm not saying it is bound to happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

 

[TKalltheTime]

I don’t think it will be 19 that will be moved 8-5.

 

[Turin]

I don’t think it will be 19 that will be moved 8-5.

8-5?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

There’s only been one Chara. Oleksiak’s problem isn’t that he’s awkward or misused it’s that he’s dumb, and most dumb players don’t go on to undumb themselves no matter who teaches them. Tyler Myers who is big has been decent from day one might not have improved in any meaninglful sense since his first couple games.

Dude, your biased hatred is showing.


Oleksiak isn't dumb and has been fine for the most part, it takes time to undo the crap he was being taught in Dallas, a proper off season helps him reset and get his mind focused on being more acclimated to the Penguins system which, when players come on board half way through, need a proper off season to really get adjusted, it's been that way before Sullivan and has been that way with Sullivan. The moronic posts in this thread about Oleksiak, jesus f***ing christ, some of the dumbest shit I have read on our board in a while. That's saying a lot.

 

[Turin]

Sorry, I’m not naive enough to think Dallas is an org entirely made up of idiots and Sergei Gonchar is, in turn, a master scout. A good teacher? Yes but even the best teacher can’t raise IQ after age 5. I don’t know what you’re going on about “bias hatred” but speaking of dumb shit on this board, the unnecessary extremes some posts cling too is right at the top. I think Oleskiak is a bottom pairing guy going forward, which is good for him since he was on a trajectory to flame out of the league entirely.

You’re welcome to cling to the hope that he turns into something he’s never been half a decade into his pro career and maybe he will, but to suggest that thinking he won’t is bias hatred is, in short, hilarious.

 

[Turin]

Nobody's saying Oleksiak will be Chara, or that there aren't exceptions to the rule of bigger players taking longer to develop. But that's generally the case, so being patient and seeing what Gonch can wrench out of him seems like the best course if he doesn't cost too much. I liked what I saw last year.

That’s fair enough. I didn’t see much in him last year, but we’ll see. I think paying him anything beyond pocket change is a bad idea.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

That’s fair enough. I didn’t see much in him last year, but we’ll see. I think paying him anything beyond pocket change is a bad idea.

Just curious what you consider pocket change...

I'm not sure if Oleksiak has potential for more growth or not, but if he does size and puck handling is worth taking a chance on. I would think around 1.5, perhaps?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I don't know, man. People are roasting Oleksiak and he was pretty damn good for us for the vast majority of the time since we acquired him. I just don't see a problem with him. He's a bottom pairing guy, he's big, he can hit, he can stick up of for his teammates and he won't hesitate to shoot when he can.

As for the Brass rumor; I'd rather keep our center depth (Sid, Geno, Brass, Sheahan/Cullen) but if we can land someone like Pacioretty, I'd move Brass. Patches has production similar to Kessel's, can one-time pucks, and isn't wholly inept defensively. He'd be an absolutely fantastic get. Skinner? I'm not so sure. Younger, great skater, can score goals, but he's terrible defensively and we simply cannot afford another poor defensive player--especially at forward.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

I don't know, man. People are roasting Oleksiak and he was pretty damn good for us for the vast majority of the time since we acquired him. I just don't see a problem with him. He's a bottom pairing guy, he's big, he can hit, he can stick of for his teammates and he won't hesitate to shoot when he can.

As for the Brass rumor; I'd rather keep our center depth (Sid, Geno, Brass, Sheahan/Cullen) but if we can land someone like Pacioretty, I'd move Brass. Patches has production similar to Kessel's, can one-time pucks, and isn't wholly inept defensively. He'd be an absolutely fantastic get. Skinner? I'm not so sure. Younger, great skater, can score goals, but he's terrible defensively and we simply cannot afford another poor defensive player--especially at forward.

Id like to add that its much easier to get a rental winger with some scoring touch than a legit 2nd line center at the deadline (especially one with a 3 million cap hit). So IMO it doesnt make much sense to do a Brass for LW trade unless your able to find someone willing to give you a legit 3C and an NHL ready winger with upside for him.

 

[Shady Machine]

Id like to add that its much easier to get a rental winger with some scoring touch than a legit 2nd line center at the deadline (especially one with a 3 million cap hit). So IMO it doesnt make much sense to do a Brass for LW trade unless your able to find someone willing to give you a legit 3C and an NHL ready winger with upside for him.

Only counter to that is if JR really wants a long term top 6 LW, maybe you give up Brass to get that if you are confident he's moving on after the season. Not saying I totally agree with JR on that, but it's not unreasonable.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Only counter to that is if JR really wants a long term top 6 LW, maybe you give up Brass to get that if you are confident he's moving on after the season. Not saying I totally agree with JR on that, but it's not unreasonable.

Sure if you find a guy that's a long term fit both talent wise and affordable. But guys like Patches and Skinner are gonna cash in next year.

 

[Shady Machine]

Sure if you find a guy that's a long term fit both talent wise and affordable. But guys like Patches and Skinner are gonna cash in next year.

Agree generally. I think Skinner may be more affordable and you are guaranteed more of his prime years. Not crazy about acquiring either of them due to acquisition cost, but there's some logic there. Hagelin and Brass are likely leaving, freeing up some cap space and Kessel may not be here long term which can be used for more cap and assets to keep the window open longer.

If you can turn Brass into Skinner and Cullen/Teddy B can man the 4th line, you might end up with a stronger team this year and be in better position in the mid term.

 

[billybudd]

Sorry, I’m not naive enough to think Dallas is an org entirely made up of idiots and Sergei Gonchar is, in turn, a master scout. A good teacher? Yes but even the best teacher can’t raise IQ after age 5. I don’t know what you’re going on about “bias hatred” but speaking of dumb **** on this board, the unnecessary extremes some posts cling too is right at the top. I think Oleskiak is a bottom pairing guy going forward, which is good for him since he was on a trajectory to flame out of the league entirely.

You’re welcome to cling to the hope that he turns into something he’s never been half a decade into his pro career and maybe he will, but to suggest that thinking he won’t is bias hatred is, in short, hilarious.

People keep referencing Schultz, but the operative guy is probably Niskanen. Everything you're saying about Oleksiak was said about Niskanen. When we traded for him, I liked him as a reclamation project, but I also referred to him as a "Chinese Fire Drill" in his own end. That was true, then, but over the years it changed.

Dallas don't have to be idiots for Oleksiak to be able to make something of himself. It could be a simple matter of recalibrating expectations and reducing pressure on the player.

Dallas' expectation of this player was that he'd be a first pairing D. I doubt he ever will be, but Pittsburgh neither expects that, nor needs him to. If he can be an everyday 3rd pairing guy with a little work (and so far, he has been), we're fine with that. If he ever becomes a 4, even better, but it's not something we need to sit on the edge of our seats counting the seconds until it happens.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Sure if you find a guy that's a long term fit both talent wise and affordable. But guys like Patches and Skinner are gonna cash in next year.

Agreed. They're going to be in the 7-8 million range
best bet is to go after a Pacioretty later in the season as just a rental, and have the Habs even retain 50% of his salary
If JR could make something like that work, it's probably the best scenario than acquiring a Pacioretty or Skinner right now

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

People keep referencing Schultz, but the operative guy is probably Niskanen. Everything you're saying about Oleksiak was said about Niskanen. When we traded for him, I liked him as a reclamation project, but I also referred to him as a "Chinese Fire Drill" in his own end. That was true, then, but over the years it changed.

Dallas don't have to be idiots for Oleksiak to be able to make something of himself. It could be a simple matter of recalibrating expectations and reducing pressure on the player.

Dallas' expectation of this player was that he'd be a first pairing D. I doubt he ever will be, but Pittsburgh neither expects that, nor needs him to. If he can be an everyday 3rd pairing guy with a little work (and so far, he has been), we're fine with that. If he ever becomes a 4, even better, but it's not something we need to sit on the edge of our seats counting the seconds until it happens.

If he "only" becomes a bigger meaner Cole we are in really good shape. Guys like Nickanen, Schultz, Daley took bigger leaps but thats not even necessary.

 

[Gurglesons]

If he "only" becomes a bigger meaner Cole we are in really good shape. Guys like Nickanen, Schultz, Daley took bigger leaps but thats not even necessary.

Oleksiak already is better at rushing the puck than Cole. Situational awareness and boxing out players with his size are the issue.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I don't know, man. People are roasting Oleksiak and he was pretty damn good for us for the vast majority of the time since we acquired him. I just don't see a problem with him. He's a bottom pairing guy, he's big, he can hit, he can stick up of for his teammates and he won't hesitate to shoot when he can.

.

People were very high on Olek early on and ESPECIALLY when paired with Cole, seemed like they read the play exactly the same and meshed well.
So to get the best from Olek I'm not sure we need to get a guy who is gonna cost a ton...it's not like he needs Nick Lidstrom to babysit him

 

[Turin]

People keep referencing Schultz, but the operative guy is probably Niskanen. Everything you're saying about Oleksiak was said about Niskanen. When we traded for him, I liked him as a reclamation project, but I also referred to him as a "Chinese Fire Drill" in his own end. That was true, then, but over the years it changed.

Dallas don't have to be idiots for Oleksiak to be able to make something of himself. It could be a simple matter of recalibrating expectations and reducing pressure on the player.

Dallas' expectation of this player was that he'd be a first pairing D. I doubt he ever will be, but Pittsburgh neither expects that, nor needs him to. If he can be an everyday 3rd pairing guy with a little work (and so far, he has been), we're fine with that. If he ever becomes a 4, even better, but it's not something we need to sit on the edge of our seats counting the seconds until it happens.

Niskanen may have been a mess, but under the lack of confidence was a player who was putting up very good stats even in Dallas. Oleksiak has yet to do any of that 5 years in. I hope he turns into a reliable bottom pair guy who might be able to play meaningful playoff minutes, but we got people in here calling him a “stud” so at least some expectations are out of whack.